Cholsey & Moulsford (Change for Wallingford)

[Nick Gough]

42 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Nick,

How long before the rest of the range is available, and will there still be sufficient stock when you want it?  As it is track then I suppose there will be.

 

Is the lack of crossings holding you up on the layout build?

 

Can you find a supplier that has no postage costs, or low postage costs?  If so you might as well get them, as a bird in the hand.............

 

Delivery estimates keep changing but I understand the double slips should be in the next few weeks (I need one for the goods yard) and the medium radius points (I shall want 18/19) sometime this year?

 

I am happy to wait for the crossings - on their own I will only be able to complete the main-relief crossovers. The double slip will allow me to start the goods yard - so I will probably wait for these first. I need the mediums for most of the sidings and the branch.

 

I think Peco, when they are not being hamstrung by Covid, are usually reliable for supplies. It's not like the situation with locos and rolling stock where Hornby, etc, appear to have limited production runs and, of course, the factory is in England.

[RJS1977]

TBH I'd be tempted to just model the platform 5 runround loop, one siding, and the branch, and leave the rest as it is ;-)

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

Thanks Chris

 

It is prototypical and shews the layout at Cholsey as it was from the opening of the new central signal box, on the island platform, in 1908. Before that time Cholsey had two signal boxes, 'East' and 'West', at each end of the station, and there were some slight changes to the trackwork.

 

I believe that the main to relief crossovers were mainly for train regulation purposes, or during engineering possessions. Many of the stations on the four-track GWR mainline had paired crossovers like this, in one direction or the other.

 

They weren't generally used for Oxford line trains, having a low speed limit (20mph from memory) - Didcot East Junction would have done this being signalled for higher speed, and with the crossovers there equipped with 'switchable diamond' crossings.

 

There were only a couple of direct traffic workings a week on and off the branch. On Wednesdays and Saturdays the 9:55pm from Wallingford ran through to Reading and returned back at 11:43pm. The outbound journey was easy enough since the facing connection (branch) to the up relief line was signalled and equipped with an FPL. The return journey must have been more complicated since there was no facing connection onto the branch or from the down to up relief lines.

 

 

Thanks Nick,

That is interesting about Didcot East.  I of course now will travel that way hardly at all so I am unlikely to see how it is done now.  Should have paid more attention when I did.  Also it is interesting that they cross over lines of oncoming traffic, and will have for years.  At Ilford on the line out of Liverpool Street, so some reason the up and down lines crossed over.  This was a recipe for disaster and in about 1905  +/- 10 years a train from one direction hit a train from the other.  There is now, and probably has been for a long time a bridge to carry the line out of Liverpool Street over the line coming the other way.  I assume it must not be the same intensity of traffic at Didcot, and that not all trains cross over that makes it workable.

 

Who would want to go from Wallingford to Reading at 10 o'clock at night and get back at mearly midnight?  Don't tell me they withdrew the service as no one used it!

[5BarVT]

3 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

They weren't generally used for Oxford line trains, having a low speed limit (20mph from memory) - Didcot East Junction would have done this being signalled for higher speed, and with the crossovers there equipped with 'switchable diamond' crossings.

And having splitting distants to give the drivers advance knowledge so that they could maximise the benefit of the higher speed.

Paul.

[Mike_Walker]

12 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Thanks Nick,

That is interesting about Didcot East.  I of course now will travel that way hardly at all so I am unlikely to see how it is done now.  Should have paid more attention when I did.  Also it is interesting that they cross over lines of oncoming traffic, and will have for years.  At Ilford on the line out of Liverpool Street, so some reason the up and down lines crossed over.  This was a recipe for disaster and in about 1905  +/- 10 years a train from one direction hit a train from the other.  There is now, and probably has been for a long time a bridge to carry the line out of Liverpool Street over the line coming the other way.  I assume it must not be the same intensity of traffic at Didcot, and that not all trains cross over that makes it workable.

 

Who would want to go from Wallingford to Reading at 10 o'clock at night and get back at mearly midnight?  Don't tell me they withdrew the service as no one used it!

There have been proposals for a flyover at Didcot East Junction as it can be a source of delay at times but it seems unlikely it will become a reality.  

 

The trip to Reading and back was probably more for loco and stock changeover purposes than the convenience of passengers!  We had a similar trip from Marlow to Slough on a Sunday evening with a return working early on Monday morning for the same purpose.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Mike_Walker
Spelling correction!

[Mike_Walker]

Sorry, error!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Mike_Walker

[RJS1977]

14 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Who would want to go from Wallingford to Reading at 10 o'clock at night and get back at mearly midnight?  Don't tell me they withdrew the service as no one used it!

 

Whilst I can't see anyone wanting to make the round trip at that time (apart from perhaps members of the Branch Line Society....), Wallingford has a theatre and restaurants, and so of course does Reading. So I can understand at least some demand for a late night trip each way.

 

A few years ago some of my C&WR colleagues invited me to a Christmas Dinner one evening in the Dolphin at Wallingford.  I said I'd be delighted to be there but would have to leave at 9:30 to catch the last bus back to Reading. When one of my colleagues asked if I could catch the train back instead, I replied "Are we running one?"

[Nick Gough]

17 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

TBH I'd be tempted to just model the platform 5 runround loop, one siding, and the branch, and leave the rest as it is ;-)

 

Of course, you would say that! 😀

 

Mind you, if I was modelling the present day I would probably agree.

 

[Nick Gough]

17 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Thanks Nick,

That is interesting about Didcot East.  I of course now will travel that way hardly at all so I am unlikely to see how it is done now.  Should have paid more attention when I did.  Also it is interesting that they cross over lines of oncoming traffic, and will have for years.  At Ilford on the line out of Liverpool Street, so some reason the up and down lines crossed over.  This was a recipe for disaster and in about 1905  +/- 10 years a train from one direction hit a train from the other.  There is now, and probably has been for a long time a bridge to carry the line out of Liverpool Street over the line coming the other way.  I assume it must not be the same intensity of traffic at Didcot, and that not all trains cross over that makes it workable.

 

5 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

There have been proposals for a flyover at Didcot East Junction as it can be a source of delay at times but it seems unlikely it will become a reality.  

 

It's interesting that the GWR didn't create any flyover junctions on the Bristol line in C20th yet built several on the new cut-off routes, where traffic was probably lighter.

[Nick Gough]

18 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Who would want to go from Wallingford to Reading at 10 o'clock at night and get back at mearly midnight?  Don't tell me they withdrew the service as no one used it!

 

The late evening trains featured in the 1914, 1923 and 1932 timetables so someone must have been using them. In fact, by the 1937 timetable this service was running each night, Monday to Saturday.

 

By 1951 though the service was no longer in the timetable.

 

Perhaps, when it was timetabled, it was meant more as a stopping service on the main line. Nothing else was running as late as that.

[Nick Gough]

18 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

And having splitting distants to give the drivers advance knowledge so that they could maximise the benefit of the higher speed.

Paul.

 

These splitting distants can be seen in this photo, at Moreton cutting:

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2468523

 

Two for the Down Main and one for the Down Relief (alongside the normal distant for each line).

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Nick Gough

[caradoc]

On 22/05/2022 at 18:10, Nick Gough said:

They weren't generally used for Oxford line trains, having a low speed limit (20mph from memory) - Didcot East Junction would have done this being signalled for higher speed, and with the crossovers there equipped with 'switchable diamond' crossings.

 

One of the many pleasures of spotting at Didcot in the early 70s was watching Oxford-bound expresses crossing from Down Main to Down Relief and then onto the Avoiding Line, IIRC the speed through the double junction was 45mph. BR later replaced the junction with a single set of simple points, meaning that a Down train could not cross between Main and Relief Lines at the same time as an Up train, later again a second set of points was installed which now allows this. 70mph I think is the speed now, although usually when I travel to Oxford we get stopped at Moreton Cutting anyway to allow an Up train from Swindon to pass first (sometimes seemingly even if that train has only just left Swindon !)

 

[Siberian Snooper]

When travelling from Reading to Brum,  most of the cross country trains use the relief lines, occasionally we get put out onto the main, usually on the return journey.

 

 

[Nick Gough]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

When travelling from Reading to Brum,  most of the cross country trains use the relief lines, occasionally we get put out onto the main, usually on the return journey.

 

 

 

I suppose there aren't as many slow goods trains to hold them up as there would have been in the past.

[RJS1977]

Yes, the Reliefs were upgraded to 100mph line speed a few years ago. Which can lead to some quite thrilling parallel running with a Hitachi (or previously an HST) on the Mains.

 

Freight through Cholsey generally consists of Freightliners, car trains (from Cowley, Solihull or Castle Bromwich in the main), and the Robeston-Theale oil trains these days.

[Nick Gough]

I haven't posted for a week or so but I have been making progress with the main station building:

 

With most of the brick plastikard in place I think it looks a lot less 'art deco' and a bit more like the real thing:

[Nick Gough]

We had another day out with Clun Castle at the weekend on the 'Return to Steam Celebration' excursion.

 

This was to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the first public steam tour following the ending of BR's infamous steam ban.

 

Our trip ran from Birmingham Snow Hill to Cardiff via Didcot, Badminton and the Severn tunnel.

 

We joined at Tyseley as we had parked at the nearby depot:

 

 

7029 after arrival at Cardiff General:

 

Following the break, during which we visited Cardiff Castle, the train returned over the same route, with a photo stop at Banbury:

 

Following set-down at Tyseley:

 

We enjoyed some fast running, particularly over the South Wales main line, and a vigorous ascent of Hatton bank on the return.

[Metropolitan H]

Did some one mention Clun Castle at Banbury. My pictures which follow come from 4th March 1967.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if this is too much of an intrusion.  I am very impressed with your developing model of Cholsey & Moulsford.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Nick Gough]

17 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

Did some one mention Clun Castle at Banbury. My pictures which follow come from 4th March 1967.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if this is too much of an intrusion.  I am very impressed with your developing model of Cholsey & Moulsford.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

Thanks for your kind comments Chris.

 

No intrusion - it's a pleasure to see your photos.

 

Sadly, whilst Clun is still in excellent condition, the same can't be said of Banbury.

 

It's become much less interesting since I last set foot there - for an organised visit to the north signal box just before it's demolition:

 

Even the track in the bay platform, in a couple of your photos, has gone now.

[Metropolitan H]

Nick,

 

Thanks for the response with the pictures of Banbury North Signal Box. A great shame that a lot of the railway I knew as a teenager has changed almost out of recognition. But at least the railway has survived and now carries more passengers and freight than it ever did - and more efficiently with very much shorter journey times, albeit perhaps without the charm.

 

My only picture from the morning of 4th March 1967 which includes the signal box is of Pendennis Castle on the Birkenhead Flyer, as below:

 

 

With more relevance, I'm still looking for the colour slide(s) I took of 1466 on the Wallingford Branch on 21st September 1968. When I find it I will scan and post.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Nick Gough]

13 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

Nick,

 

Thanks for the response with the pictures of Banbury North Signal Box. A great shame that a lot of the railway I knew as a teenager has changed almost out of recognition. But at least the railway has survived and now carries more passengers and freight than it ever did - and more efficiently with very much shorter journey times, albeit perhaps without the charm.

 

My only picture from the morning of 4th March 1967 which includes the signal box is of Pendennis Castle on the Birkenhead Flyer, as below:

 

 

With more relevance, I'm still looking for the colour slide(s) I took of 1466 on the Wallingford Branch on 21st September 1968. When I find it I will scan and post.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

Thanks for posting these.

 

I would have been nine at the time so wouldn't have been able to get there!

 

I do remember 'Pendennis' at Didcot, in the early 1970s, where it lived in the lifting shop.

 

I never managed to see it in steam though, before it left for Australia.

 

That is something I will have to remedy soon!

[Nick Gough]

14 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

With more relevance, I'm still looking for the colour slide(s) I took of 1466 on the Wallingford Branch on 21st September 1968. When I find it I will scan and post.

 

Coincidentally, there's a nice photo of 1466, under Church Road bridge, Cholsey, currently at the top of Didcot's 'Going Loco' blog page:

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/product.php/78/going-loco

 

That should be useful when I get to modelling the bridge.

 

[Nick Gough]

'Pendennis Castle' during its first residency at Didcot:

This would have been probably 1971 or 1972.

 

5051 'Earl Bathurst', in ex-Barry condition on the same day:

[Nick Gough]

I have added the corbelling to the top of the walls:

Leaving the usual gaps for drainpipes and canopy girders.

 

And cut out a ceiling for inside the building:

 

The longitudinal pencil lines show the positions of the roof apex for the three parts of the building, whilst the transverse lines mark the top of the four gable ends. This roof is going to be fun!

[Nick Gough]

A couple of brick columns:

 

To go inside the opening from the stairway to the platform:

 

On the real thing this brickwork is painted over now:

 

But older photos shew that it was originally like the opening on the Down Main: