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12 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

new seats in the 800 are hard enough to stop us using the train

Boeing have done that on the "Dreamliner" too - some of the least comfortable plane journeys that I have ever endured. What's the idea? Keep us all awake so we can buy more stuff??

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1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

Boeing have done that on the "Dreamliner" too - some of the least comfortable plane journeys that I have ever endured. What's the idea? Keep us all awake so we can buy more stuff??

I seem to have heard somewhere that the dream liner was designed by Boeing to seat eight abreast with 2- 4- 2 a fairly civilised set up for couples and not too bad for single travellers.

The first airlines to take delivery had this set up.

Then the airlines who specify the seats realised by making the seats a little bit narrower they could fit in nine abreast 3-3-3.

Of course train operating companies wouldn't do any thing like that would they!!!!!!

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58 minutes ago, peterd777 said:

Then the airlines who specify the seats realised by making the seats a little bit narrower they could fit in nine abreast 3-3-3.

Of course train operating companies wouldn't do any thing like that would they!!!!!!

 

Back to multiple doors and a plank the full width of the coach, it's only an hour and a bit, no need for toilets or refreshments. :jester:

 

 

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15 hours ago, DavidLong said:

More worrying is letting Bombardier/Alstom anywhere near the software . . .

 

David

 

Siemens have had their share of software and other issues too.  However for some reason everybody seems to overlook that.

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Good afternoon.  With a lot of help from @figworthy between us we've managed to produce a graph sowing tunnelling progress so far.  It's a bit crude and will no doubt get better as I learn that side of Open Office.  However it does show what's been done.  

238426735_HS2Tunnelprogress.png.6f4840bb3acccdd2f4bf5fbd398452e5.png

The yellow line at the top is the target for the Chiltern tunnels of 16Km.   Dorothy is shown but the data is not for real at the moment I just put a figure in for New Years Day to test the graph.  I'll try and update this every few months if people are interested.  

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
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12 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

Siemens have had their share of software and other issues too.  However for some reason everybody seems to overlook that.

 

Siemens Velaro D  (DB Class 407), sister to Eurostar's Class 374's, had a much troubled and delayed introduction.

It was several years late going into service, long after the first completed trains rolled off the production line.

 

 

.

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Just read on sms news that the boss of Wales rail  has announced tyhat Wales should recieve the amount of money that is bring spent on HS2 .His view that as it was announced as a british welsh project they are entitled to the money to rebuild railways in wales.Think that he has a cheek , Wales is starting to think of itself  as an independant country so they should finance thier own projects.

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14 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

Just read on sms news that the boss of Wales rail  has announced tyhat Wales should recieve the amount of money that is bring spent on HS2 .His view that as it was announced as a british welsh project they are entitled to the money to rebuild railways in wales.Think that he has a cheek , Wales is starting to think of itself  as an independant country so they should finance thier own projects.

I maybe wrong but don`t they get their share (as Scotland) through the Barnett formula ? ie when money is spent on such projects in England a proportion goes to Wales and Scotland ? 

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How and when will we know if HS2 has been a success?

 

X passenger journeys?

 

Y in ticket sales?

 

Z increased capacity in use on the WCML?

 

The Frozen North levelled up with the Sunny South?

 

Hornby's HS2 train set voted "Toy of the Year"?

 

King William opens the "HS2 Trail" long-distance footpath?

 

Something else?

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
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46 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

How and when will we know if HS2 has been a success?

 

X passenger journeys?

 

Y in ticket sales?

 

Z increased capacity in use on the WCML?

 

The Frozen North levelled up with the Sunny South?

 

Hornby's HS2 set voted "Toy of the Year"?

 

King William opens the "HS2 Trail", a long-distance footpath alongside the railway?

 

Something else?

 

Martin.

Rather like the Gateshead Western Bypass that later became the A1 and now you can’t move on it during rush hours.

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Yes, the Barnett formula dictates how much money goes to Scotland and Wales when English capital projects take place. Funding for major capital projects in the devolved administrations (certainly Wales, not certain about Scotland) has to come from Westminster as they have no means of raising such funding. Hence the complaint that HS2 had been labelled "English and Welsh" even though about the nearest it will get to Wales is Birmingham. Different government analyses have stated that it will benefit north Wales by speeding up journeys to north Wales (via Crewe) and that it will have a negative effect on the Welsh economy.

My feeling is that it might also speed up journeys from London to mid Wales (via Birmingham) if the time gained on the journey is not lost in changing between Curzon Street and New Street, but I suspect that any time saving would be minimal. But I would still probably use Moor Street and save money (and often a more pleasant journey).

I think what the Welsh First Minister wants is electrification to Swansea, not an unreasonable idea.

Jonathan

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17 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

How and when will we know if HS2 has been a success?

 

X passenger journeys?

 

Y in ticket sales?

 

Z increased capacity in use on the WCML?

 

The Frozen North levelled up with the Sunny South?

 

Hornby's HS2 set voted "Toy of the Year"?

 

King William opens the "HS2 Trail", a long-distance footpath alongside the railway?

 

Something else?

 

Martin.

 

I think it will be fairly obvious after a while. 

 

I consider the original WCML electrification, the Channel Tunnel and HS1 to be the rail infrastructure projects in my lifetime that have brought the biggest step changes over what went before.  All 3 were controversial in their own way, faced prevarication, delay and review from decision makers, and were threatened with curtailment and/or cancellation.  Despite that, once up and running, all 3 moved the dial substantially in terms of the travelling habits of the public.  For me that is the measure of success for something like this and like those projects it won't be clear for a few years if that has been achieved. 

 

I doubt many people thought in 1990 that Eurostar would grab the market share it eventually did; I certainly didn't.  I think those involved with HS2 got it all wrong by constantly banging on about saving x minutes to Birmingham and that has conditioned many to focus solely on that hence the large swathes of negativity.  I think once the wider implications of it become obvious to the masses it will, like those earlier projects, ultimately be a game changer.  But, as ever, we'll see.

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11 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

How and when will we know if HS2 has been a success?

When you're able to turn up at Euston to find an HS2 train leaving every 5 minutes, each one stuffed to the gunwales.

 

This in effect is what seems to be the case at Seoul station in Korea on their HS line. I wanted to get to Busan and I was advised to book well in advance. Very good advice, as it turned out. I had a reserved seat from the airport - and when the train reached the central station in Seoul, it seemed as if most of the population of Seoul descended on the train and there was standing room only. 

 

Certainly before Covid struck, the Eurostar services from St Pancras seemed to be like this - not quite as frequent, but similarly very well filled.

 

Personally, I think HS2 will be successful in this way. Most people prefer faster journeys, even if there are cheaper slower ones. That's why so many people currently choose to fly the longer routes like London to Glasgow/Edinburgh. The negativity relating to HS2 is simply ridiculous - the Victorians would never have built the original rail network with this level of negativity. It's pathetic.

 

Yours,  Mike.

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Is the current Avanti service on the WCML a success?

If so then the new HS2 service will be, as it replaces it.

It's not as some antis seem to think an extra 'premium' route for long distance trains from Euston, it will be the route for long distance trains from Euston.

The paths released on the fast lines will be used for better outer suburban services, releasing some paths on the slow lines for extra freight services.

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10 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

If it's a success, why replace it?

If only you'd read on two sentences, you'd have found out:

26 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The paths released on the fast lines will be used for better outer suburban services, releasing some paths on the slow lines for extra freight services.

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4 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

If only you'd read on two sentences, you'd have found out:

 

I read every line. If the fast service is obstructing slower services, by definition it is NOT a success and needs replacing. Let's stick to logic. :)

 

When you're able to turn up at Euston to find an HS2 train leaving every 5 minutes, each one stuffed to the gunwales.

 

Within 12 months there would be no-one left in London.

 

Martin.

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2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

I read every line. If the fast service is obstructing slower services, by definition it is NOT a success and needs replacing. Let's stick to logic. :)

 

 

 

Within 12 months there would be no-one left in London.

 

Martin.

The service is a success, its just so successful that its competing for resources needed by other (also succesful) services. HS2 allows all services to continue to grow without this competition.

'm not really sure what you're arguing though. This comment suggests that you see the WCML services as unsuccessful, and in need of replacement, the previous post the reverse of both.

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22 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

I'm not really sure what you're arguing though.

 

I'm not arguing anything. I asked a question, which was not "Will HS2 be a success?"

 

It was "What metric will be used to decide the answer?"

 

Martin.

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That depends on who is asking the question.

The Treasury will have a different answer from the person in the street and that will be different again from the engineers who designed it or the politicians in the north.

But the simplest metric is the number of passengers.

(Would it be a bad thing if everyone left London? Tongue in cheek, but someone who worked there for most of his career and has no wish to make further visits.) On the other hand we want the Up trains full too.

Jonathan

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45 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

(Would it be a bad thing if everyone left London? Tongue in cheek, but someone who worked there for most of his career and has no wish to make further visits.) On the other hand we want the Up trains full too.

 

Up trains? According to the BBC, HS2 is about getting to Birmingham in 20minutes. No-one ever said anything about coming back:

 

 

 

Martin.

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