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Oxford Rail announce OO gauge BR Pilchard wagon


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Looks like a nice little weathering project to run with my Cambrian Sturgeon. The grey will make a good base coat for various washes in order to create the wood effect. 
Really looking forward to these appearing.

 

John

937D56B8-A147-4CC1-A1C4-8991D489DDEB.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Simon Bendall said:

DB990096 still in black, I'd put money on DB990074 being olive.  Both from August 1981 at Warrington, well off the Eastern which they allegedly never left.

DB990096 Warrington BQ 17-08-81.jpg

 

 

My interpretation of the first photo is that the original markings would have been (straw yellow on black) : -

 

PILCHARD

20T  ENE (not ENG)

DB 990096

 

YORK

DISTRICT

 

DISTRICT ENGINEER'S

STOREYARD

LEEMAN RD. YORK

 

With a tare weight of 13-3

 

Any dissention on this surmise?

 

John Isherwood.

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14 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

My interpretation of the first photo is that the original markings would have been (straw yellow on black) : -

 

PILCHARD

20T  ENE (not ENG)

DB 990096

 

YORK

DISTRICT

 

DISTRICT ENGINEER'S

STOREYARD

LEEMAN RD. YORK

 

With a tare weight of 13-3

 

Any dissention on this surmise?

 

John Isherwood.

 

Definitely ENG on that picture to my eyes John.

If you do some transfers, will they be singularly in yellow, or can we tempt you to do a white option/mixture too? An upping of my pre-order depends on your answer!

 

Mike.

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1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Definitely ENG on that picture to my eyes John.

If you do some transfers, will they be singularly in yellow, or can we tempt you to do a white option/mixture too? An upping of my pre-order depends on your answer!

 

Mike.

 

Mike,

 

There is no doubt that the photo shows a vehicle with ENG lettering - but I suspect that this is at least a relettering, if not a repaint.

 

I don't recall ever having come across another photo of a departmental vehicle in original livery with ENG lettering - it was always EE / ENE / EM / ES / EW / ESC ; I suppose that the easy solution is to provide both.

 

I am mystified by the demand for white Gill Sans lettering for departmental wagons. Ex-works, the livery was straw yellow on black, or white on Gulf Red; (I provide white lettering where the latter is known to be the ex-works livery).

 

When wagons were repainted and white lettering applied, the marking style should have been Rail Alphabet in the 'boxed' layout. Clearly this did not always happen, but I try to produce only authentic lettering and the myriad of permutations of styles used for repaints means that I stick to ex-works liveries, and let others provide 'generic' lettering for later variations.

 

John Isherwood,

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

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12 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

When wagons were repainted and white lettering applied, the marking style should have been Rail Alphabet in the 'boxed' layout. Clearly this did not always happen,

 

Concur with your use of should.

More specifically, engineering wagons tended to have less bits of clear bodywork to put boxed numbers on, think Sturgeons for example, and a peruse of the relevant David Larkin books shows a more widespread use of ad hoc re-numbering in white.

Notwithstanding, you are obviously quite welcome to do as you wish, I'll "suffer" your shortcomings!!

 

Mike.

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Personally,  while not prototypical,  I actually like the livery as presented.  It will fit in well with other BR grey unfitted stock.  The livery actually "persuaded" me to pre-order two of each wagon.

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2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Notwithstanding, you are obviously quite welcome to do as you wish, I'll "suffer" your shortcomings!!

 

Call it OCD - which is definitely applicable to me!

 

Equally, whilst the ex-works liveries are relatively easy to determine and were pretty consistent, no two repainted / lettered wagons were the same.

 

Trying to be authentic with the latter would require very extensive and time-consuming research - if sufficient photos exist to fill a sheet. I do not have sufficient spare time to devote to such work for what is, at the end of the day, simply a spin-off from my own modelling.

 

There are plenty of 'generic' transfer sheets available for those who have the time to compose authentic repaint / reletter liveries.

 

Sorry,

CJI.

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These are class looking models and what a fantastic price.

Does anyone know if they ever appeared on WR metals as far west as (say) Taunton and any possibility of SR as far west as Exeter in 1963 ish? I'd really like an excuse to get a bunch.

Many thanks

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I did discuss the original livery with the designer but they had restrictions on how far they could go. No one seems to have photos of these in original livery, Personally I think they were unpainted wood with black steelwork. That would fit with the period. As someone has already posted there is one of my photos which they seem to have used which is more grey than anything else. 

 

I would suggest Simons photo shows an unpainted one, with a lot of black where there is writing - again as would be expected. I do accept the top plank at the far end appears to be black without writing on it. 

 

And yes, the other is olive green and the only one I've seen in reasonable external condition!

 

Paul

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14 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

These are class looking models and what a fantastic price.

Does anyone know if they ever appeared on WR metals as far west as (say) Taunton and any possibility of SR as far west as Exeter in 1963 ish? I'd really like an excuse to get a bunch.

Many thanks

The only Pilchard wagon I've actually seen on the Southern Region was on an engineering train at Clapham Junction, routed via the West London line around 1981.

 

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4 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

The only Pilchard wagon I've actually seen on the Southern Region was on an engineering train at Clapham Junction, routed via the West London line around 1981.

 

Thanks matey. I suspect that is probably the furthest they ever got onto the Southern.

P

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On 04/06/2021 at 13:29, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

They were black with liberally amounts of rust/brake dust. Faded black planks with some being repainted grey.

 

This seems to be the photo they have used as a reference. Note the very rusted ends.

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brpilchardyco/ef50ebcd0

 

Jason

Jason

Do you have the elusive photograph that proves your suggestion that they were black? 

 

It isn't the painting instruction. Drawing no. RCH 2781 for service department wagons (except Sleeper wagons for some reason) are different for covered and open wagons. Covered are painted but open wood wagons to be left unpainted with inscription in yellow on black panel on body. Underframe and running gear to be painted black with white lettering. [There is no mention of the steelwork of the body, an oversight but there is ample evidence the steelwork would have been painted black - as are all departmental steel hopper wagons and covered wood wagons] They show drawings of typical examples - including a 3 plank high 4 wheel wagon which would have had much of the left hand side of the wagon painted black because of the need to have the panel for the writing. 

 

Every one of these PILCHARD wagons had writing of a District name they are allocated to and separately a "Return to..." instruction. This means that, as well as the usual numbers, tare, ownership, name (in 3inch block) and E in six inch letters with the regional suffix in 3 inch. - so Ee and Ene for these etc. whole areas of the side would have had to have a black ground for this additional writing to be put on. And some of these panels would have been large, because the instructions could be extensive such as "RETURN TO DISTRICT ENGINEERS STOREYARD, CHALK LANE, HULL". The Lot files at the HMRS Study centre have all of the original District and Return to instructions. 

 

Simons photo of DB990096 show some of this well, despite being 30 years after construction. The unpainted top plank, the area on the right hand of the left hand door and other unpainted areas. And the writing for Leeman Road. 

 

One of the reasons the later photos - such as mine - appear to be grey etc is that all of the writing is covered over and grey paint seems to have been to hand when doing this - why? Who knows. That is BR for you, clear instructions frequently ignored. But I don't know when they decided to paint over the District and Return to  instructions on some wagons. 

 

Of course, instructions changed with time and painting of the wagons all Black, or Gulf red body, or olive green body followed - although precious few of these wagons seemed to have justified complete General Repair. Simons DB990074 does appear to have done, and in the TOPS world no need for writing to show allocation - that could be on the computers if necessary.

 

Very complex world, BR wagon painting. 

 

Paul

 

 

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No evidence. I was just going by the photographs that had been posted at the time. Particularly the one on the Hattons website.

 

I just don't reckon they were painted grey like the model. APART from the one with YCO which does look grey on your website, with some others having grey planks.

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brpilchardyco/ef50ebcd0

 

This photo I mostly meant.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=695

 

If the solebars are black. Then surely so are the two bottom planks on the left hand side. And the two bottom planks on the right hand side seem to have traces of black as well. Maybe patches where lettering was.

 

Top planks look unpainted, but scuffed with traces of black in the top left hand corner around the ironwork. Maybe a bit of touching up or is it just grime?

 

 

But I think it's a good canvas to do a weathering job on. I certainly can't complain at the price.

 

I'm as much wondering about why there is a GWR Toad in Darlington as I've got a Bachmann/Kernow one in olive.

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brpilchardyco/ef50e956b

 

 

Jason

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  • 5 months later...

Evidently overdue like so many other models and info seems rather confused.  Illustrations show it in grey, but they had said it would be available in black, but according to this site in June this year https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/colour-oxford-pilchard

  • Since the original announcement, the decoration specification has changed to an as-built condition, as Oxford Rail's Scott Rhodes explained: “We consulted with a well known wagon enthusiast who advised there were no official colours and most were unpainted but some might have been painted similar to the model finish we have.”
  • Priced at £14.95 each, delivery is expected during the third quarter of the year.

 

Oxford Diecast's site prices it at £17.95 with 

  • This item is in Development and will be arriving soon. From announcing an item, Oxford Diecast estimates it can take anywhere from 9 months – 1 year to be available to purchase.
  • To be notified once this item is available to buy, please enter your email below:

 

Rails list it as black at £12.50

Hattons in BR grey at £13

 

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It would be helpful if Oxford-Rail provided an update eg:  "in production", "stuck awaiting a container or vessel to put it on" or "on the high seas". I think most people are understandable in the current climate but the lack of information is difficult to excuse and is very easy (and cheap) to remedy. In short Oxford-Rail, just talk to us please! 

 

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With Dapol's "E" wagon selling for around GBP27.00,  is the GBP13.00 discounted price for the OR Pilchard a little optimistic and highly likely to increase before release?   Did Dapol not offset some development cost on the "E" wagon with their "Turbot" or was it another wagon?    

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On 20/12/2021 at 23:26, TheEngineShed said:

An email from Hattons today regarding my Pilchard pre-order:

 

"Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us January 2022"

 

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in/products/pilchard-wagon-br-black-db990092-or76pil002

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