Manor Announced for 00

[johnhutnick]

I am in the US and may have a little different idea or understanding of some comments.  Can anyone write in more or less a summary of the benefits/deficiencies of the two Manors.  I don't want to order and somehow find that I bought the wrong one.  Thanks for any help.

[Oldddudders]

4 hours ago, johnhutnick said:

I am in the US and may have a little different idea or understanding of some comments.  Can anyone write in more or less a summary of the benefits/deficiencies of the two Manors.  I don't want to order and somehow find that I bought the wrong one.  Thanks for any help.

Not yet. Neither model is yet on sale. Most manufacturers talk a good model, but the proof of the pudding etc. Once members have their hands on either model the comments will come thick and fast. 

[Philou]

@johnhutnick I received from Hattons an email regarding the Dapol AND Accurascale Manor. They usefully drew up a comparison table of them both (and the former Mainline one (!)) indicating what each manufacturer was providing eg: Plus18 v. 21pin, removable smokebox door (yes/no) etc. You may wish to have a look on the Hattons' site and compare.

 

Personally, I really couldn't see very much to choose from and the price difference is not large either. FWIW, I'm having one from each with sound, but I need to decide on the colours ....... decisions ....... decisions .......

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Hilux5972]

27 minutes ago, Philou said:

FWIW, I'm having one from each with sound, but I need to decide on the colours ....... decisions ....... decisions

I’ve done the same. I’m getting 2 from Accurascale and 2 from Dapol. All with sound, one lined black and one lined green from both. 

[Hilux5972]

34 minutes ago, Philou said:

@johnhutnick I received from Hattons an email regarding the Dapol AND Accurascale Manor. They usefully drew up a comparison table of them both (and the former Mainline one (!)) indicating what each manufacturer was providing eg: Plus18 v. 21pin, removable smokebox door (yes/no) etc. You may wish to have a look on the Hattons' site and compare.

I’d be inclined to question some of those details. Eg the table says the Accurascale model has no whistles or under frame pipework, both clearly visible in this image. 

[Butler Henderson]

And according to Hattons Dapol ones have smokebox number plates and Accurascale ones do not. Not really worth looking at.

[Harlequin]

18 hours ago, johnhutnick said:

I am in the US and may have a little different idea or understanding of some comments.  Can anyone write in more or less a summary of the benefits/deficiencies of the two Manors.  I don't want to order and somehow find that I bought the wrong one.  Thanks for any help.

 

I think the general feeling is that the Accurascale Manor is most likely to be the superior model. (Notice the careful way I phrased that!) They are innovating in many areas, paying great attention to detail and responding positively to feedback. We know this because they are communicating with us much more than Dapol do...

 

That is certainly what I'm betting on. (Sorry Dapol. I have many of your models and they are good but the Accurascale Manor looks like it's going to be something special.)

 

[SteamingWales]

I have to agree that if you are split between order just one from a manufacturer hold out until both are released then a direct comparison can be made.

 

I did a bit of investigating myself looking at some photos of each model following the Hattons email, as I was considering 7827 from Dapol to go with my A/S trio.

 

It is rather difficult to tell if there are any differences. The only big difference I saw was the boiler backhead (cab detail). The A/S backhead is better than the Dapol example, which seems to use the same tooling as the Mogul and Prairie, but does that really matter when it is running on a layout?

[McC]

13 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

I have to agree that if you are split between order just one from a manufacturer hold out until both are released then a direct comparison can be made.

 

I did a bit of investigating myself looking at some photos of each model following the Hattons email, as I was considering 7827 from Dapol to go with my A/S trio.

 

It is rather difficult to tell if there are any differences. The only big difference I saw was the boiler backhead (cab detail). The A/S backhead is better than the Dapol example, which seems to use the same tooling as the Mogul and Prairie, but does that really matter when it is running on a layout?

For clarity the accurascale manor features a diecast chassis, footplate and boiler and has a ‘on track’ weight of just under 500g, twin speakers and a built in Stay-Alive.

Edited May 9, 2022 by McC

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

And according to Hattons Dapol ones have smokebox number plates and Accurascale ones do not. Not really worth looking at.

Whereas the reality is that the Dapol one has the smokebox numberplate moulded as part of the smokebox door whereas the Accurascale one has the smokebox plate as a separate item mounted on brackets which in turn are mounted on the smokebox door - JLTRT.

 

So in terms of 'catching' the appearance of real thing' the Accurascale one is streets ahead in that respect which is one decider in its favour for those who want a BR version.

 

[tommyliam021]

At the moment I’ve got 4 Accurascale Manors on pre order and just 1 Dapol. I’ve pre ordered the Dapol Dinmore Manor because a portion of the price goes to the GWSR and Dapol will give £5 to the locomotives owners. At present the Accurascale Manor is looking to be the better model, though we won’t know til they arrive. I’m hoping that each is as good as the other, because more choice is never bad IMO.

[rembrow]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Whereas the reality is that the Dapol one has the smokebox numberplate moulded as part of the smokebox door whereas the Accurascale one has the smokebox plate as a separate item mounted on brackets which in turn are mounted on the smokebox door - JLTRT.

 

So in terms of 'catching' the appearance of real thing' the Accurascale one is streets ahead in that respect which is one decider in its favour for those who want a BR version.

 

I can't see that one is 'streets ahead' due to the appearance of a smokebox number plate, it's a small feature, hardly noticeable in this scale. I have one of each on order, as I wanted two and also wanted to support both businesses. I know the Dapol mechanism from the Prairie and it is a slow running and smooth piece of engineering, now the gear ratio from the 43xx has been sorted. I also like the tender to loco connection, which is wireless and very neat. If it follows tbe Prairie, the Dapol manor will also have good weight. Overall I believe both will be excellent models.

Edited May 9, 2022 by rembrow
correction

[adb968008]

As always i’m waiting not on the detail, as these days theres not so much in it, but how accurate the livery application and the mechanism that powers it.

 

I like the 2-6-0, and the Prarie is better than Hornbys in my opinion.

 

The numbers I would like to have seen are 7819 (in lined black) and 22/28 in 1960’s lined green. Given how bespoke detailed each loco is, i’m not sure renumbering an existing one would do it justice. I’m wait an see for now on both.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by adb968008

[Hilux5972]

54 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I like the 2-6-0, and the Prarie is better than Hornbys in my opinion.

I have to disagree there. I didn’t have to disassemble my Hornby Prairie and take a file to it to get it to run properly. 

[adb968008]

13 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

I have to disagree there. I didn’t have to disassemble my Hornby Prairie and take a file to it to get it to run properly. 

I didnt need to disassemble my Hornby one, it did it itself.
 

Now when a handrail breaks off, will you try a Dapol one for spares ?

 

I find Dapol better than Hornby in general, in quality, in price and in spare parts availability.

 

We dont know how Accurascale will offer spares yet, its untested, but I do like the ease of use of DCC Supplies for Dapol (and formerly Howes for Heljan), and Bachmanns new spares site. I dislike Gaugemasters site (Heljan) and Hornby just seems like an haberdashery of adhoc/pot luck. But spares are important in self-after care, and graphical self service is important when you dont know what that 1mm by 3mm circular bit in green is… or if it was ever there but in red.

(I put this here knowing it will be read across the sea).

 

That a model needs attention out of the box to work, is a sad reflection of the hobby today, but I find it an issue shared by all companies, not just Dapols prarie, but the Hattons 66 (this was a feast), KR GT3 ( front bogie), Heljan 86’s (broken buffers), Bachmann 158 (coupling) , Oxford N7 (coupling) Rapido 16xx (still awaiting that replacement board 12 months later)…, hold your breath dare I say it but even my Accurascale PFAs had issues (missing bufffers, broken lugs).. My list can go one.. 

A few minutes with a file on a Dapol prarie is better than trying to source new cylinders and rebuilding the motion on a Hornby one, because the factory didnt tighten the coupling screws and the wheels were not true set in the axle grove, and finding out the hard way…

 

All manufacturers are sinners, its about how much forgiveness you will accept… my baseline start is low, ive been through the mill many times…

 

Quote

As always i’m waiting not on the detail, as these days theres not so much in it, but how accurate the livery application and the mechanism that powers it.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I didnt need to disassemble my Hornby one, it did it itself.
 

Now when a handrail breaks off, will you try a Dapol one for spares ?

 

I find Dapol better than Hornby in general, in quality, in price and in spare parts availability.

 

We dont know how Accurascale will offer spares yet, its untested, but I do like the ease of use of DCC Supplies for Dapol (and formerly Howes for Heljan), and Bachmanns new spares site. I dislike Gaugemasters site (Heljan) and Hornby just seems like an haberdashery of adhoc/pot luck. But spares are important in self-after care, and graphical self service is important when you dont know what that 1mm by 3mm circular bit in green is… or if it was ever there but in red.

(I put this here knowing it will be read across the sea).

 

That a model needs attention out of the box to work, is a sad reflection of the hobby today, but I find it an issue shared by all companies, not just Dapols prarie, but the Hattons 66, KR GT3, Heljan 86’s, Bachmann 158, Oxford N7, Rapido 16xx (still awaiting that replacement board 12 months later)… My list can go one.. 

A few minutes with a file is better than sourcing new cylinders and rebuilding the motion because the factory didnt tighten the coupling screws and the wheels were not true set in the axle grove, and finding out the hard way…

 

All manufacturers are sinners, its about how much forgiveness you will accept… my baseline start is low, ive been through the mill many times… 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know about spares but I do know that Accurascale will offer some sort of repair service (I'm not quite sure how that is going to work and whether or not it's just warranty etc).   I have met the person they are taking on to do the work and from what I know of him already they've got a really good chap there.  Which, I'm sorry doesn't answer the question about retail spares.

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't know about spares but I do know that Accurascale will offer some sort of repair service (I'm not quite sure how that is going to work and whether or not it's just warranty etc).   I have met the person they are taking on to do the work and from what I know of him already they've got a really good chap there.  Which, I'm sorry doesn't answer the question about retail spares.

Thanks

 

I always do my own (and commercial repairs in the past too) going back to my teenage years, I even did manufacturers return/repairs too funding my uni years.

Ive easily rectified over 3000 locos in my time, (including every single one of the 750 Limas 42760 limited edition back in the 1990’s).
 

Hence I self insure my collection from a warranty perspective (i need to as I often travel / have commitments that prevent me testing every new arrival within that warranty period).

 

The points are :

1. if youve got to make your own parts because you cannot get them.

 

But more importantly..

 

2.  it can be the prettiest loco on your shelf, but if

(a) the livery is wrong (60015, 34050, NR HST),

(b) its assembled / designed wrong/incorrect  (6922, 31147, dj13xx, 60156)

(c) it has a challenging mechanism to purpose (Dj71, DJ 14xx, 18000, Garratt)

 

then your stuck with major work to which the value rapidly diminishes, warranty repairs or spares are irelevent.

 

In that regard, point 1 becomes nebulous, even if they offer repairs.

 

I prefer Dapol, over Hornby, its more thought out, spares you can get and assembly I find generally better than Hornby… it doesnt mean they dont sin… the 73 and 121 needed some forgiveness, the 73 failed on more importantly on point 2(c) also.

 

I should add Dapol spares (Shinedew/Biomode etc) are easier to source as they are used across multiple commissioner's ). Some of Hornby's can be kind of unique, and I've found quality control more variable too.

 

Hence my point… I prefer Dapols Prarie to Hornbys, with both I know what i’m getting. Hilux actually agreed with me, even by contradicting… as his issue wasnt cosmetic but technical.

 

For me, The Manor, will be on its merits 1,2 above, both of them as I’m already convinced the detail and accuracy will be there, I can live with a 1mm discrepancy on a wheel diameter (if its the case suggested).

 

weight I find isn't always a wow factor, if it turns out the motor isn't upto it or the gearings off… (Hornbys Prarie is a bit too sprightly at low speed and too fast at upper speeds, Dapols is much better at slow speed but its weight is adversely holding back the upper speed, but its pull is stronger imo).

I didnt just make it up, i pulled them both apart..

Heres some science…

1st Hornbys Prarie motor vs the budget Electrotren 0-6-0T…

and both Dapol / Hornbys chassis & motors compared…

 

cylinder widths.. Dapol, then Hornby

 

wheel diameters..(Dapol upper, Hornby lower).

 

Ease of dismantling… simply what you need to get the body off..

(Hornby is an easy win, fairness you should really only remove the body to fit DCC and with Dapol its just the smoke box door to remove, that said “just” involved some faff.

Dapol upper, Hornby Lower 

compare quality of the connecting rods screws, rivet, oil corks on the bearings, rod fluting, and the wheel rivets.. I cant see How anyone thinks Hornbys wheels are better ?
Dapol

 real thing… 4144 at Didcot

Hornby..

 

 

 

weight, amps and drawbar…

 

Hornbys lower weight 235g is offset by its (imo) railroad quality motor that revs up and is geared fast, despite the flywheel, where as Dapols stronger motor and smoother lower gearing is partially lost by its 322g weight.

Hornbys starts on 0.02amp and maxes out at 0.18amp

Dapol starts on 0.06amp and maxes out at 0.12amp, so it wins on the energy bill, but not on start up, only when running at speed.

Hornbys runs across a range of speed that is a little erratic, but max speed is close but higher than Dapols which has a lower range of speed to control.
 

The Dapol one easily out pulls Hornbys, I dont have the figures to hand, but recall one being in range of 50-60g draw bar pull, the other being closer to 120g… not a lot but on a flat you dont need it.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by adb968008

[Butler Henderson]

Hornbys does come with a free spiders web, quite how neat wiring defeats them is one of those great mysteries.

[The Stationmaster]

Not sure whose they are (although I presume they're shown in. the same order as other comparison photos) but the driving wheels in the middle photo are the most accurate with the flare at the ends of the spokes.

[adb968008]

48 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Not sure whose they are (although I presume they're shown in. the same order as other comparison photos) but the driving wheels in the middle photo are the most accurate with the flare at the ends of the spokes.

Ah apologies,

 

I've relabelled/re-ordered to keep the flow consistent in the images.

 

Dapol is Green / upper image , Hornby is black / lower images throughout now.

interestingly the Dapol versions tanks are 1mm longer, and the front end plate around 0.5mm longer, but length over buffers is the same. The edges to the tanks, and bunker are noticeablely thinner on Dapols model. (note my Dapol one shed a rear buffer in this image).

i’ll rein it in there as its about Manors and not a Prarie review, at the end of the day modern plastic detailing on models scanned or from CAD are full of confidence, but this is why I’m looking at the mechanism and performance rather than just the cosmetics…

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by adb968008

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

at the end of the day modern plastic detailing on models

maybe so but given we get reams of opinions, usually more tribal in nature than objective and generally proferred with little or no actual evidence (a view for which I offer no support whatsoever :)) it's always good to see some comparison pics.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Hal Nail
the usual lazy typing

[B15nac]

Can't be long now for the manors can it? Been very quiet from Dapol of late regarding them.

 

Regards Neil

[Black 5 Bear]

54 minutes ago, B15nac said:

Can't be long now for the manors can it? Been very quiet from Dapol of late regarding them.

 

Regards Neil

June/early July 22 seems to be the general consensus from retailers.

The modelling press are advertising the Manors as coming soon so hopefully not too far away.

[Hilux5972]

14 hours ago, B15nac said:

Can't be long now for the manors can it? Been very quiet from Dapol of late regarding them.

 

Regards Neil

Dapol is always quiet 

[Ian Hargrave]

6 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Dapol is always quiet 

True….but with some good historic reason.