Wickham Green Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 On 13/03/2020 at 20:12, Nearholmer said: I always wonder about design attribution with locos that are so obviously built to a generic design thrashed out between a railway (LMS) and its suppliers, and then procured and/or part-built-in-house by another railway. Definitely a camel. Always wondered about those massive fly-cranks .... far chunkier than those on otherwise similar-looking machines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2020 What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic. BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Wickham Green said: Always wondered about those massive fly-cranks .... far chunkier than those on otherwise similar-looking machines I think it might have resulted from a decision to put the balancing mass in the fly-crank, rather than the wheel itself. Although the mass doesn’t seem to be in quite the right place. Putting balancing mass in the fly-crank Is quite a common thing on locos designed by ‘industrial’ loco builders, and quite common worldwide, almost to the degree where putting the balancing mass in the wheel (which then necessitates a fixed relationship between how the wheel and crank are fitted) might be seen as exceptional, and a carry-over from olden-days steam practice. This Brush loco shows typical ‘industrial’ (and export, and US, and German etc) practice What do others think? Edited March 16, 2020 by Nearholmer 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Interesting theory ......... but these were Maunsell locos with normal spokey wheels ( OVSB didn't cook-up the BFB style until later ! ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Yes, I corrected my post for that even before seeing yours,....... it was the slightly later, double-reduction gear, locos that had BFB wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 hours ago, The Johnster said: What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic. BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. weren't the 09s developed from the 08s for trip working? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Sort of ......... they were 'just' 08s with a different gear ratio - but followed the aforementioned Bulleid locos ( BR class 12 ) which were go-faster machines : oddly, those didn't have train brakes originally - so intended for short distance work between yards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 The Bulleid 500hp ‘Diesel Q1’, which was very definitely a trip loco, able for long pick-up goods runs, I don’t think had train brakes (can anyone say for certain?) presumably because the sort of goods trains concerned were ‘unfitted’. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2020 The main point of the 09s was that they were built with air brakes, but I believe the higher gearing was a Southern Region spec and influenced by the Bulleid 500hp loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 9 hours ago, The Johnster said: What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic. BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. Perhaps that's the reason why it was preserved, as its relatively high top speed meant that it could actually be used to pull revenue earning trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted March 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2020 6 hours ago, Nearholmer said: The Bulleid 500hp ‘Diesel Q1’, which was very definitely a trip loco, able for long pick-up goods runs, I don’t think had train brakes (can anyone say for certain?) presumably because the sort of goods trains concerned were ‘unfitted’. I'm sure I've read that this loco wasn't as successful as was hoped because it was rather high-geared for slow shunting but rather low-geared for distance trip work. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Yes, I've read the same somewhere. You'd have thought that easy to solve with a two-range selector, which it was what Ruston provided on locos for Bord na Mona in Ireland when exactly the same problem arose there. Maybe that would have figured in a MkII, but the there never was one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 11 hours ago, The Johnster said: What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic. BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. The sort of job that BR(W) designed the D9500 series (the class 14s) to do, even if there were sometimes questions about their ability to stop unbraked trains. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2020 Yes, the D95xx were very much in the ‘road switcher’ category; 45mph and 650hp. They were conceived as replacement for the Hawksworth 94xx, itself a replacement for pre-grouping South Wales locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nearholmer said: What do others think? Well - I can tell you that BR bought it (or one very like it) and gave it the number D2999. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited March 16, 2020 by cctransuk 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) On 15/03/2020 at 19:04, montyburns56 said: I know this a BR shunter but i wasn't even aware of it until a few days ago, but I'm curious as to how an oddball shunter has ended up being preserved especially as only two of them were ever made. Does anyone know the story behind its preservation? It was refurbished, but they couldn't find a buyer so it was used as a shunter at the Vulcan Works until the work dried up. Then went on loan to the KWVR and it stayed. Eventually English Electric donated it. It's use? It was originally a dock shunter. Worked at Liverpool Docks then went to Stratford for a while. Jason Edited March 16, 2020 by Steamport Southport 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 On 15/03/2020 at 19:52, keefer said: I always thought the cab end just had a sort of 'bunker' shape to it, but there's a centre section as well. It is a bunker - a diesel oil bunker (or tank). Regards, John Isherwood. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: It was refurbished, but they couldn't find a buyer so it was used as a shunter at the Vulcan Works until the work dried up. Then went on loan to the KWVR and it stayed. Eventually English Electric donated it. It's use? It was originally a dock shunter. Worked at Liverpool Docks then went to Stratford for a while. Jason Ahh right that explains it then. It was freebie and in working condition to boot! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) There are some references to war time diesel shunters being capable of 30 MPH plus. The problem was the traction motor couldn't stand the revs. I must have a hunt for sources. [Edit Pretty sure it was a reference to Martin Miill Military Railway near Dover and the book was a soft back A5 size which had a Dean Goods with Pannier tanks in WD Livery on the front, but can't find the book at present.] 08s also tended to suffer slipped cranks which saw their max speed progressively cut from 25 or 30 down to 15. Its a great shame so many were built. A decent two bogie 600bhp 40 tonner small road switcher like the Americans used with a Soutern DEMU power unit could have saved so many branches and small goods yards, which the 08s were too slow to serve and class 20s/ 25 etc too expensive and uneconomic. Edited March 18, 2020 by DavidCBroad 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 If you wish to model the Maunsell shunters (BR 15201 to 15203), with a few compromises, Golden Arrow Productions do a resin body shell intended to fit a Bachmann 08 chassis with a few modifications. Maunsell Class D3-12 and BR Class 08 - 2 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 06/03/2020 at 12:46, Michael Edge said: Most of the drawings have been done, might even be the next test etch. I don't think we'll ever run out of ideas though. Just found this thread. Pleased that the Edge Empire is about to release etches for the three Maunsell 0-6-0 350 HP shunters. Way back in September 1964 after completing the first year of my fitting apprenticeship at Eastleigh Works I moved to Eastleigh Diesel Depot to continue my training. The excellent Ron Turner was the foreman and my first job was to assist on an exam of 15201. So Michael please let me know when the etch is available and I will buy immeadiately if not sooner! Keep up the good work! Kind regards, Richard B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) On 15/03/2020 at 20:02, russ p said: Strictly speaking they are trip locos. One had an hydraulic transmission (227) and the other a single traction motor I believe driving a carden shaft to a final drive on an axle They were never BR property so 226 was probably bought off EE direct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_D0226 the link confirms EE built a pair,, 227/8 electric vs hydraulic transmission trials? The locos have an Indian Railway look to my mind, the large outlet for the cooling radiator air suggest hot climate design, EE did have a decent presence in the former countries of the British empire, were they a prototype class for the attention of such export markets? ps, here is a link to an EE export to the Malaysian Railway Edited March 18, 2020 by Pandora 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffordshire Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) On 06/03/2020 at 12:46, Michael Edge said: Most of the drawings have been done, might even be the next test etch. I don't think we'll ever run out of ideas though. Please .... 15100 needs company ! Edited October 5, 2022 by Staffordshire Re-attached photo ... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, Staffordshire said: Please .... 15100 needs company ! Come on now, don't tease us without showing us the money shot. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam Can Man Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 I actually have a resin kit for one of these Maunsell D3/12 shunters made by Golden Arrow Models. Unfortunately I haven't made much progress with it! It is one of the earlier ones designed to go onto a Lima 08 shunter chassis. The later ones are designed to go onto the Bachman 08 chassis. I have decide to modify it to fit on a Hornby 08 chassis that I bought from New Modellers. The wheels were ordered separately, along with the coupling rods. I have got to fit a gearbox to it along with a large 5 pole skew wound motor I got on Ebay from Germany similar to the ones Hornby use on their Merchant Navy loco. I have to add steps, sandboxes and other details yet. The running plate moulded to resin body was cut away and where the step down at the cab is, I had to cut away the running plate on the Hornby chassis and add a new one out of 40 thou black plasticard. The cab steps supplied with the kit are cast in white metal and are designed to be fitted to the resin body, but as I have cut the running plate away in that area, I will need to scratch build new ones as replacements. As can be seen, The body isn't a perfect fit on the chassis yet, but it's nearly there. The kit doesn't have the extra windows in the back of the cab but I intend to add these. Gary 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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