Wickham Green too Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 11/03/2022 at 18:53, Nearholmer said: ..... Brush “house colours” were orange and very dark chocolate brown ... ... as applied to "Falcon". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffordshire Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Thanks again for the information, always another question ...... Regarding 9998 that worked for British rail at Gloucester docks, does anyone know if during this period it carried any identification .... the rare photo seems to indicate not ? Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 10/03/2022 at 12:37, cctransuk said: This MAY be the loco in question; I have no idea of who holds the copyright, but it was captioned as the Brush works shunter. As to colour, this may give a clue as it appears to show another Brush works shunter - comments welcome. CJI. D2999 was in a very similar livery to the photo above when it was at Stratford as depicted in the Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives, revised edition 1964 p210 and fifth edition 1966 p162. The locos look very similar except D2999 cab roof is more arched and comes down closer to the top of the cab windows. The body shade for D2999 is much lighter than the red (?) of the buffer beams, cranks and rods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted March 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2022 9998 never carried any numbers as far as I know. The cab on D 2999 was cut down specifically for a location it worked in previously. No other 200hp locos had this cab, the one at Middleton is painted as D2999 but is actually the first one built for Orb steelworks Newport. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 "D3/7" No. 12005 Derby Works 1964 by Ron Bowyer 15000 Derby Works 1958 by Andrew Lance 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinBoo Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 I’m a bit late but here’s a chart I made a while ago that fits in this topic pretty well. (sorry for low resolution) 2 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted July 5, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2022 That chart seems to mix things up considerably with single motor and twin motor types, the development is a lot simpler. The locos with jackshaft drive are single motor types, developed by Armstrong Whitworth and EE/LMS, this turned out to be a dead end. EE then used the same engine/generator setup with twin motors (initially with high gearing for 30mph), the earliest ones for GW (15100) and LMS (12000-2) in the 1930s, the Southern then took the same basic mechanical/electrical design but built them in their own workshops so 15201-3 looked rather different. The final development was by EE, again with twin motors (lower gearing this time), same engine etc. and 4ft diameter wheels, this type was bought by LMS/BR and many others around the world, all look fairly similar. The BR 350hp (08) is essentially the same loco but with bigger wheels and cab re-profiled to fit the loading gauge everywhere. The bigger (4ft 6in) wheels were also found in the original SR locos, the main reason was to keep the coupling rods further away from the conductor rails with somewhat higher speed a bonus. The various LNER locos were of much the same design with different equipment, the only exception being 15004 which was all Brush. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 You saved me typing that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinBoo Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Michael Edge said: That chart seems to mix things up considerably with single motor and twin motor types, the development is a lot simpler. The locos with jackshaft drive are single motor types, developed by Armstrong Whitworth and EE/LMS, this turned out to be a dead end. EE then used the same engine/generator setup with twin motors (initially with high gearing for 30mph), the earliest ones for GW (15100) and LMS (12000-2) in the 1930s, the Southern then took the same basic mechanical/electrical design but built them in their own workshops so 15201-3 looked rather different. The final development was by EE, again with twin motors (lower gearing this time), same engine etc. and 4ft diameter wheels, this type was bought by LMS/BR and many others around the world, all look fairly similar. The BR 350hp (08) is essentially the same loco but with bigger wheels and cab re-profiled to fit the loading gauge everywhere. The bigger (4ft 6in) wheels were also found in the original SR locos, the main reason was to keep the coupling rods further away from the conductor rails with somewhat higher speed a bonus. The various LNER locos were of much the same design with different equipment, the only exception being 15004 which was all Brush. Yeah sorry I made it a good while ago and it’s quite messy so I apologise for the errors and thank you for correcting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Michael Edge said: .... The final development was by EE, again with twin motors (lower gearing this time), same engine etc. and 4ft diameter wheels, this type was bought by LMS/BR and many others around the world, all look fairly similar. The BR 350hp (08) is essentially the same loco but with bigger wheels and cab re-profiled to fit the loading gauge everywhere. .... I'd put the Southern Region - later class 12 - locos between the 4' wheeled ( class 11 ) type and the standard 4'6'' ( class 08 ) type as a logical progression - though the 08's were re-geared back to a lower top speed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Once things got to the EE350 plus generator, with two, geared down traction motors, the evolution was pretty much complete, everything else, wheel-size, gauge, added bits and pieces, etc, was minor variation to suit particular circumstances. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippel Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 LMS 7069 is I believe preserved at the Vale of Berkeley Railway but looking on their website, there hasn't been an update for a while. Does anybody have an idea of when it might be completed? Thanks, Paul. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted July 5, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2022 Last time I saw 7069 (at Glos. Warwick rly) it was mechanically OK but the engine and generator were out - we were taken on through a leading casing door to get into the cab! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumut Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 On 05/07/2020 at 21:18, Nearholmer said: Which were still too slow, partly because the gear ratio was still a compromise and partly because 350hp isn’t enough to go reasonably quick, except with a very light load. I guess that the real ‘road switchers’ in Britain were the Type1 locos, but I have a feeling that they were actually too high-geared for sustained heavy shunting - the traction motors would probably overheat because they wouldn’t be spinning fast enough to ingest enough cooling air. The truth is probably that sustained really heavy switching, and inter-running a paying load with passenger trains are simply incompatible in design terms unless there is a ratio change facility, or uneconomically massive auxiliary cooling systems for the transmission, even with electric or hydraulic transmissions. Can anyone think of a loco that can do both? Hello there, YES, GM-EMD SW1, 600hp BoBo ( 1938 - 1953 ), & VR ( Clyde-EMD G6B ) Y Class, 650 hp BoBo ( 1963 - 1968 ), used redundant Suburban Electric power bogies with rewired traction motors. The VR Y class were used all over the State, in both shunting yards and on local goods ( Pilots ) , as well as country branch lines. Rated to haul 1,000 tons on some Mallee ( NW Victoria ) wheat lines . Regards, Tumut 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 15202 Hither Green by stratfordman72 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted November 7, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2022 Very useful, I've not seen this one before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durranhill Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 BR Blue Class 11 shunter 12064 at Petteril Bridge Junction Signal Box , Carlisle ,1967 -https://cumbrianrailways.zenfolio.com/p434662995/h27610BF3#h2ba0e717 . Stewart 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Staffordshire Posted November 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2023 A model of a LMS/BR 'Jackshaft', what do you think ??? 19 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold papagolfjuliet Posted November 25, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2023 Have the two LMS jackshaft shunters which survive in Italy been mentioned yet? Some photos of one of them here: https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,6698323 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted November 25, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2023 One of them is in working order but the other is deteriorating rapidly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 26, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2023 I will have to go to see 7069 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 On 25/11/2023 at 09:27, papagolfjuliet said: Have the two LMS jackshaft shunters which survive in Italy been mentioned yet? Some photos of one of them here: https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,6698323 On 25/11/2023 at 14:07, Michael Edge said: One of them is in working order but the other is deteriorating rapidly. First I've heard of those; unlikely survivors. The link is 10 years back; if they are indeed still about, I could see them being "rescued" back to Blighty by a British preservation group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold papagolfjuliet Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2023 11 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: First I've heard of those; unlikely survivors. The link is 10 years back; if they are indeed still about, I could see them being "rescued" back to Blighty by a British preservation group. A repatriation bid was mooted in 2016, but I haven't heard anything since. https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/1105/lms-built-shunters-in-italy-could-uk-preservationists-bid-to-bring-them-home/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold papagolfjuliet Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2023 Here's another photo of the operational one (LMS No. 7106) taken in 1996. Last I heard - which was two years ago - TFT was still using it as Bibbiena pilot and on occasional trains to the Baraclit concrete factory. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:15.11.96_Vercelli_Cariboni_700.001.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2023 That's the one in Turin, ex FS 700 001, the working one is ex FS 700 003, painted green in the latest photo I have. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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