Shelf Marshes (first attempt at a cameo layout)

[47137]

Thanks for the applause Ian - fortunately relatively few folk here ever saw this alcove in its original state!!

 

The tram platform now has an information screen:

Photo lost, cannot be restored

 

This is a tiny ("0.91 inch") OLED display glued into the side of the building, and driven by an Arduino microcontroller tucked in behind the backscene.

Photo lost, cannot be restored

 

This is a bit of fun but arguably also something of a folly because the text is so small and the display is so far away. I need to put my head inside the layout or take a photo to be able to read it 🙂

 

There is some related discussion in the "computer control" area here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140839-fun-with-arduino-how-to-get-started-and-more/&do=findComment&comment=4456531

 

- Richard.

 

Edited to add two photos.

 

 

Photo lost, cannot be restored

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137
Attempt to restore lost photographs

[Ian Simpson]

Craftsmanship/clever for sure, but I can't help thinking there's an element of witchcraft involved here too!

Really well done, a brilliant job!

[47137]

10 minutes ago, Ian Simpson said:

Craftsmanship/clever for sure, but I can't help thinking there's an element of witchcraft involved here too!

Really well done, a brilliant job!

 

Yes. The clock face here only exists because someone with the necessary skills (RubyB) happened to design it and put the source code on the Internet. I do get a high level of satisfaction from the Arduino, at least when it works, but it is just too darned difficult for me. I have just written this elsewhere, part of a long-term correspondence, and I can best write it here too:

 

It (the display) is a bit too far away to see clearly, though at a glance you do see the display is changing. It photographs nicely with a small camera. I thought about a second sign nearer the front of the layout, but both signs would have been obscured from view when there is a tram at the platform.

 

I am still glad I have done it, but I do not really enjoy the Arduino at all. It seems to be both obsessive and difficult, and the combination just seems to wear me out. I am glad I did it for my Magnorail project, but I am not sure whether I would do it again.

 

What I ought to do is start the scenics on the layout!

 

This project probably deserves a blog post, but instead what I am going to do is pack up most of my Arduino stuff. Photograph it, put it on eBay, and clear my head.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

My correspondent suggests,

 

Hi Richard

You need to eat a lot of liquorice (chocolate coated preferably) and purge this Arduino thing out of mind and body. You have met the Arduino enemy and vanquished it. 

 

I reckon I should have one of these Faller structures behind the utility building, to hide its foreshortening against the backscene and remind me of this sound advice:

Photo lost, cannot be restored

 

- Richard.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137
Add note on lost photograph

[ISW]

4 hours ago, 47137 said:

I reckon I should have one of these Faller structures behind the utility building, to hide its foreshortening against the backscene and remind me of this sound advice:

Richard,

Only so long as you don't include the associated perfumes smells ...

Ian

 

[47137]

Yep. Realism has got to have some limits ;-)

 

I am going to promise myself, I won't post again here until there is some kind of landscaping in place. Please give me loads of time - I need to sort out a rotating mini digger and a delay circuit for the track first.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

I have made a start on the scenics!

 

The whole layout now has a backdrop. I went for '239 Industrial pack B' by 'id Printers', this is a pair of photographic panels printed onto a thin and self-adhesive plastic film:

 

 

Adhesion onto my bendy ply panels already painted with a Rustoleum all-purpose paint is very strong indeed. If I change my mind I will have to stick something else on top.

 

Who says you need a tunnel or a cutting to hide a sharp corner? This should work pretty well with the chemical plant in front of it too.

 

- Richard.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137
Restore lost photographs

[47137]

I have spent most of year pondering whether this layout should have a backdrop at all. I could see strong arguments for a plain white backdrop, but when a commercial product is this good I think it is worthwhile.

 

The backdrop makes the model look bigger and it brings opportunities to write new fiction. The grey iron railings behind the passenger platform are clearly showing the route of a former line to the town nearby! And, the backdrop helps to define the colour palette for the scenery.

 

I am now having a bit of a "dress rehearsal" using my various models of structures, these being in various stages of completion. I will spare the World photos of this. My main feeling is, the whole scene is all a bit intense. I thought this would happen - I think this scheme would work very well in about 8 x 3 feet, but I don't have room for 8 x 3 feet. The layout is pretty much a proportional reduction of a plan by Iain Rice for 4mm scale and intended for smaller locos and wagons (see the first post). I think I am going to end up with "a layout for 1:87 scale trains" rather than "a 1:87 scale layout", but it does fit well into the space available. I can still just about pick it up and move it around the room single-handed too, although negotiating the staircase will need a helper. And it will end up as a single, self-contained "cameo-style" model.

 

- Richard.

[sb67]

That backdrop looks great Richard, really gives a feeling of space and hides the corner well, the 'google earth' photo is amazing, really shows how you've 'straightened out' the curve. 

[47137]

There is some weird and wonderful perspective going on in this backdrop. The manufacturers have taken a montage of photographs of “some things receding into the distance” and stitched them together with some foreground and background subjects “relatively parallel to the viewer”. It is very clever, and this particular scene fits here perfectly.

 

I think I have had some beginner’s luck here. This is my first attempt at a curving backdrop in a corner. The structure behind it is 3mm bendy ply glued onto sheets of flat ply fixed at right angles to each other. When you bend sheet ply you want to get a curve like the surface of a cylinder but it is very easy to end up with something like the surface of a cone. When this happens the curve throws the photo backdrop out of alignment. I was pretty close to a cylinder for this first curve but at the other end of the layout the “top radius” was maybe 6 mm bigger than the “bottom radius”. I ended up trimming the vertical edge of the backdrop to make this edge crooked, and then making cuts top and bottom in the backdrop before persuading it into position and trimming the top and bottom to suit.

 

Making cuts into the edge of the backdrop material is a bad idea because it encourages tearing. I ended up with a tear in the sky:

 

 

This will have to get touched-in or disguised as some kind of vapour trail.

 

- Richard.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137
Restore lost photographs

[47137]

I have been assembling and painting buildings for the last fortnight, about a dozen in all.

 

I am happy with all of them as models (photos will follow as I finish them), but maybe the mess hut is not quite right for the layout? This model is my attempt to Anglicise the Faller barracks:

 

 

I don't think this is a "bad" model at all, but maybe I should be making something from a British design, one of those single-storey brick structures with a flat roof we used to see dotted around depots.

 

Maybe I can do something more to the Faller model?

 

- Richard.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137
Restore lost photographs

[BernardTPM]

Corrugated iron roof and it could become a village hall or Scout hut maybe?

[Ben B]

Same as Bernard, I saw that and thought 'scout hut'. Our group have stopped in many like that one over the years.

[47137]

On 24/06/2021 at 10:25, BernardTPM said:

Corrugated iron roof and it could become a village hall or Scout hut maybe?

 

On 24/06/2021 at 11:51, Ben B said:

Same as Bernard, I saw that and thought 'scout hut'. Our group have stopped in many like that one over the years.

 

Yes. It would be much better as a village hall or scout hut, but on a future layout. I have been a bit silly really - I looked at Terling village hall, looking for cues to make sure this ended up looking 'British' but didn't think enough of the big picture. This is a village hall or scout hut (or possibly a small sports pavilion), not a mess hut. The model will join my tank farm, built for the layout but left out because I ran out of space.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/23477-tank-farm-faller-kit/

 

 

This leaves some uncertainty for this patch of the baseboard. If really needs a fairly modern structure to tie in with its surroundings. A suitable mess hut could be a welfare unit converted from a 20ft shipping container. This in turn would need a little work on the backscene, because this part has some scale 10-foot high grass. The only part of the backscene which doesn't look right!

 

Or, a double stack of shipping containers will hide the foreground of the backdrop. And a part of me fancies  a vehicle compound with some old lorries or double-decker buses. Or, indeed, take the two vertical tanks from the tank farm. Looking at this photo, perhaps some fairly dense shrubbery in front of the back scene and nothing much else? This would make for a break between the passenger platform and the silos.

 

- Richard.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137
Restore lost photograph

[47137]

Putting the mess hut to one side, I have finished painting all of the buildings for the layout. For me this has been a concentrated exercise in getting better and more consistent results.

 

There was still one disaster:

 

This happened when I forgot I had done my "optional base coat" (see below) and added a fresh application of primer on top and thought everything would sort itself out when I added the top coats. This model got stripped in Dettol and then left as bare plastic with a dusting of matt varnish:

 

 

But in the main, things have worked out ok:

 

 

The steel cladding here is actually Humbrol no.1 "grey primer" applied by brush over Halfords grey primer, but the result will tone well with the backdrop.

 

 

The Wills chapel went together without any filler, the mouldings really are very good.

 

The main things seem to be:

1. Clean the model using alcohol or white spirit - not soapy water

2. Undercoat with a Halfords spray primer - usually grey, occasionally white

3. Optional base coat with a Tamiya spray, this depends on having a suitable colour to hand

4. Tamiya matt acrylics, applied by brush, adding coats as wanted to increase colour depth; use the largest brush possible, lots of springiness in the bristles, adjust pressure to suit

5. Leave for a week+ and finish with an enamel matt varnish applied very lightly (I am using a Humbrol spray), this pulls the surface together and hides most brush marks.

 

I think I will be using Tamiya for every model where they do a suitable colour. I wish they would do common British railway colours! All of their paints and sprays are first class.

 

- Richard.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 47137

[ISW]

2 hours ago, 47137 said:

Putting the mess hut to one side, I have finished painting all of the buildings for the layout. For me this has been a concentrated exercise in getting better and more consistent results.

 

There was still one disaster:

 

This happened when I forgot I had done my "optional base coat" (see below) and added a fresh application of primer on top and thought everything would sort itself out when I added the top coats. This model got stripped in Dettol and then left as bare plastic with a dusting of matt varnish:

 

 

But in the main, things have worked out ok:

 

 

The steel cladding here is actually Humbrol no.1 "grey primer" applied by brush over Halfords grey primer, but the result will tone well with the backdrop.

 

 

The Wills chapel went together without any filler, the mouldings really are very good.

 

The main things seem to be:

1. Clean the model using alcohol or white spirit - not soapy water

2. Undercoat with a Halfords spray primer - usually grey, occasionally white

3. Optional base coat with a Tamiya spray, this depends on having a suitable colour to hand

4. Tamiya matt acrylics, applied by brush, adding coats as wanted to increase colour depth; use the largest brush possible, lots of springiness in the bristles, adjust pressure to suit

5. Leave for a week+ and finish with an enamel matt varnish applied very lightly (I am using a Humbrol spray), this pulls the surface together and hides most brush marks.

 

I think I will be using Tamiya for every model where they do a suitable colour. I wish they would do common British railway colours! All of their paints and sprays are first class.

 

- Richard.

Richard,

 

That's a nice, concise, and useful piece of information. Thanks. Some may consider it a bit 'basic', but that's just the sort of information / guidance that us inexperienced modellers need.

 

Ian

[rue_d_etropal]

4 hours ago, 47137 said:

Putting the mess hut to one side, I have finished painting all of the buildings for the layout. For me this has been a concentrated exercise in getting better and more consistent results.

 

There was still one disaster:

 

This happened when I forgot I had done my "optional base coat" (see below) and added a fresh application of primer on top and thought everything would sort itself out when I added the top coats. This model got stripped in Dettol and then left as bare plastic with a dusting of matt varnish:

 

 

But in the main, things have worked out ok:

 

 

The steel cladding here is actually Humbrol no.1 "grey primer" applied by brush over Halfords grey primer, but the result will tone well with the backdrop.

 

 

The Wills chapel went together without any filler, the mouldings really are very good.

 

The main things seem to be:

1. Clean the model using alcohol or white spirit - not soapy water

2. Undercoat with a Halfords spray primer - usually grey, occasionally white

3. Optional base coat with a Tamiya spray, this depends on having a suitable colour to hand

4. Tamiya matt acrylics, applied by brush, adding coats as wanted to increase colour depth; use the largest brush possible, lots of springiness in the bristles, adjust pressure to suit

5. Leave for a week+ and finish with an enamel matt varnish applied very lightly (I am using a Humbrol spray), this pulls the surface together and hides most brush marks.

 

I think I will be using Tamiya for every model where they do a suitable colour. I wish they would do common British railway colours! All of their paints and sprays are first class.

 

- Richard.

I have found that once the plastic is primed, and the Halfords grey is best spray paint, although I have found most matt grey acryllic paints seem to work well, even applied by brush, then any water based paint such as emulsion(match pots from DIY shops) will stick OK.

Applying a coat of garden/DIY type acryllic will toughen it, but as most buildings are not handled that much, then it is not necessary. Finally I apply a gung mix which is the water used to clean my brushes and it still contains quite a lot of paint, and costs nothing. I let gravity take the gung to where it would have naturally formed on any building.

[47137]

11 hours ago, ISW said:

Richard,

 

That's a nice, concise, and useful piece of information. Thanks. Some may consider it a bit 'basic', but that's just the sort of information / guidance that us inexperienced modellers need.

 

Ian

 

It is indeed basic information and I certainly don't want to talk down to anyone. What I do want to do is try to show how I am learning to overcome real difficulties I have had in painting models.

 

I "learnt" a lot from articles in the Railway Modeller in the mid/late 1970s, and truly some of the advice published there (e.g. "wash models in mild soapy water to remove grease") was downright wrong - and made the task harder than it needed to be. And when you are young, advice sticks. A mate tells me the forums like RMweb are "inconsequential", and of course sometimes they are, but blatant inaccuracies do get picked up and corrected by more knowledgable people. Magazines in the 1970s had complete control over what they printed, and people like me lapped it up - and they curated their letters pages to suit the opinions of their editor.

 

I have plenty of experience of painting models, but I am still inexperienced in painting models and getting a half-decent result. So I am cautious of writing any advice at all. Clearly there are many modellers with top-class painting skills, but there must be others like me, forty years since I entered the hobby and still really struggling with painting. I could write more, and in particular I have realised you need a spatula or similar flat object e.g. a lolly stick to stir model paints. The cocktail sticks I used don't work well enough, they cut through the liquid without moving enough of the pigment.

 

One conclusion from this is I can use Tamiya paints to finish really filthy wagons like my BYA steel carrier, these things seemed to exist caked in grime most of the lives. The actual livery underneath hardly matters.

 

- Richard

 

PS. Simon @rue_d_etropal I will reply later, see if Ian or others come back first on my five steps.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Richard,

Your five steps certainly seem great to me! Any particular reason for the switch to brush painting in step 4? I certainly agree with you on using a larger brush, I remember finding that better when I used brushing but that was a long time ago.

I’ve literally ruined reasonable models with over-thick applications of inappropriate paint and it is very off putting.

 I particularly agree with you on the way magazines and their editors used to run things, I’ll say no more!

Cheers,

John

[47137]

1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said:

..

Any particular reason for the switch to brush painting in step 4?

...

 

I don't know how to use an airbrush :-)

 

I bought a compressor a couple of years ago but ended up using it with a blow gun. I was given an airbrush but it is still unused. I dread the business of cleaning it.

 

- Richard.

[Ian Simpson]

8 hours ago, 47137 said:

PS. Simon @rue_d_etropal I will reply later, see if Ian or others come back first on my five steps.

 

I've held off saying anything so far because my painting isn't that great. I suspect that puts me in the "average modeller" category, as RM used to say. On Richard's five steps:

1. Clean the model using alcohol or white spirit, not soapy water. Yes, I fully agree! I still sometimes see that old advice to clean in soapy water and then rinse it off afterwards, but my rinsing is no better than my painting and any soap remnants will ruin a paint job. I tend to use alcohol for cleaning, because occasionally white spirit has softened some types of plastic (e.g. Lima wagons).

2. Undercoat with a Halfords spray primer - usually grey, occasionally white   Yes again, a big fan of the spray can here. I tend to use Poundland spray cans, which work well enough for me although they don't hold as much paint as some other brands. I know we're supposed to use black primer for figures, but I find most of the enamel colours I use look more accurate with a light-coloured undercoat.

3. Optional base coat with a Tamiya spray, this depends on having a suitable colour to hand    I've never tried this, but it seems a good idea if you've got the time and enthusiasm.

4. Tamiya matt acrylics, applied by brush, adding coats as wanted to increase colour depth; use the largest brush possible, lots of springiness in the bristles, adjust pressure to suit   Afraid I've always preferred enamel paints to acrylics. Agree a springy brush is best - too stiff and it will ruin the work, too flabby is just exasperating. Personally I don't always go for the largest brush, as I like painting small areas at a time, but suspect that's because I'm using enamels.

5. Leave for a week+ and finish with an enamel matt varnish applied very lightly (I am using a Humbrol spray), this pulls the surface together and hides most brush marks.   Ahem! Totally lacking patience, if I leave the paint overnight I'm doing well. But I'm sure Richard is right. Yes to light matt varnish - or perhaps satin if you want the finished surface to reflect a bit of light.

 

On John's over-thick coats of paints, I always have the same problem with acrylic paints. That's why I prefer to use enamel paints, with a few drops of extra thinner in the can, and apply several thin coats. The additional thinner seems to make the paint dry smoother without brushmarks.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Ian Simpson
The usual typos.

[sb67]

Liking the painting Richard, especially like the reason for step 4! I'm in that school, I have an airbrush, used occasionally but I'm not that confident with the cleaning and only doing small amounts of painting with it. 

[47137]

5 hours ago, Ian Simpson said:

* chopped up below *

 

 

1. Clean the model using alcohol or white spirit, not soapy water. Yes, I fully agree! I still sometimes see that old advice to clean in soapy water and then rinse it off afterwards, but my rinsing is no better than my painting and any soap remnants will ruin a paint job. I tend to use alcohol for cleaning, because occasionally white spirit has softened some types of plastic (e.g. Lima wagons).

 

I worked for a while at a firm who made gyros. This was in 2010/11, by then all of their preferred degreasants had been banned as either ozone-depleting or carcinogenic, and many engineers agreed it was impossible to get components properly clean.. Their recommended practice then was to clean with isopropyl alcohol and dry with compressed air. This works well enough for me. You really mustn't use water because any moisture remaining in nooks and crannies will ruin the paint job.

 

2. Undercoat with a Halfords spray primer - usually grey, occasionally white   Yes again, a big fan of the spray can here. I tend to use Poundland spray cans, which work well enough for me although they don't hold as much paint as some other brands. I know we're supposed to use black primer for figures, but I find most of the enamel colours I use look more accurate with a light-coloured undercoat.

 

I think, the primer has to be a spray. If I try to use a brush I encounter the problems I get applying paint to bare plastic - the paint wants to slide around. And, most of my models are made from parts of different colours, sometimes metal as well as plastic, and the primer makes for a level playing field to start on.

 

3. Optional base coat with a Tamiya spray, this depends on having a suitable colour to hand    I've never tried this, but it seems a good idea if you've got the time and enthusiasm.

 

I think it helps me to visualise things, it shows whether the next coat needs to be darker or lighter or whatever.

 

4. Tamiya matt acrylics, applied by brush, ...

 

5. Leave for a week+ and finish with an enamel matt varnish applied very lightly (I am using a Humbrol spray), this pulls the surface together and hides most brush marks.   Ahem! Totally lacking patience, if I leave the paint overnight I'm doing well. But I'm sure Richard is right. Yes to light matt varnish - or perhaps satin if you want the finished surface to reflect a bit of light.

 

The acrylics have a finite curing time. I expect three days is often fine, but if you apply the enamel too soon then a disaster happens. I liken this to making compression fittings for plumbing. If you prepare the pipe really well, clean thoroughly and assemble dry, the fittings usually don't leak. But if you prepare the pipe in a roughly passable sort of way and add a smidgen of jointing compound, they never leak. I've been painting twelve models all at the same time so really the final week's wait wasn't a problem. Bit of a relief to stop really :-)

 

On John's over-thick coats of paints, I always have the same problem with acrylic paints. That's why I prefer to use enamel paints, with a few drops of extra thinner in the can, and apply several thin coats. The additional thinner seems to make the paint dry smoother without brushmarks.

 

There is a lot of variety in acrylics. The Revell 'Email' ones brush really well from a fresh pot, but they go gummy a year or so after opening. In theory you can add water to make them runny again but this alters the original chemical balance and "they aren't the same". The special Revell thinners don't work for brush painting either, they are for airbrushing only.

 

I would choose Revell Email if I wanted a slab of primary colour like a red buffer beam or a departmental vehicle painted yellow. Both of these on a white primer. Purists would choose Railmatch to get the correct shade, maybe I should too. I have got on fairly well brushing Railmatch enamel, but their aerosols I've tried just splattered and ruined the model.

 

If I was going to add a sixth tip, I'd say immerse the rattle can in hot water for 10 or 15 minutes before use. Hot tap water at 50 deg C is fine, ignore the safety warnings on the label! This lets the propellant evaporate before it gets near the model, and you get a better finish. I did this when I painted my chemical plant, it does help.

 

- Richard.

Edited June 28, 2021 by 47137

[47137]

1 hour ago, sb67 said:

Liking the painting Richard, especially like the reason for step 4! I'm in that school, I have an airbrush, used occasionally but I'm not that confident with the cleaning and only doing small amounts of painting with it. 

 

I am going to have to learn soon, because I have yet to paint the track on the layout and I want to choose my shades of colour. A brush is going to drive me mad.

 

- Richard.

[shipbadger]

Don't be afraid of airbrush cleaning.  Buy a can of airbrush cleaner, various make available including Phoenix Precision.  My current one came from Hobbycraft I think.  A quick squirt between colours and a longer one at the end.  Alternatively blow whatever the appropriate thinners for the paint being used through the brush.  I rarely need to dismantle my brushes.  Just practice on some old tin cans or scrap models for a bit.  We have a chap in our modelling group who was reluctant to use his airbrush, after half an hour of practice on some old plastic kits he was doing really good work.  In some ways getting the consistency of the paint right is probably the hard bit but practice will make perfect as they say.

 

Tony Comber