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00 Gauge Beginner's Layout- Scottish Terminus, feedback appreciated :)


Iskra
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Hello all, I'm looking to create my first DCC 00-gauge model rail layout. I'm modelling a fictional coastal Scottish terminus which is just on the edge of the central belt so receives mainly commuter services, with the occasional longer distance train. This is set in the early 1960's so that I can run both steam and diesel.

 

The black boxes represent platform faces. The shortest platform is designed so that local trains or parcels/vans can use it, but equally so that engines can be stabled and lightly serviced at the end of that road where there is no platform face.

 

The bottom track will be mainly for freight with the centre being a freight unloading area, the right-end being a whisky distillery and the left end two sidings leading into a small military logistics base (no tanks etc, just the more mundane fuel, ammo, supplies etc). The fiddle yard is on the left.

 

My main issue is that my baseboards will be like an 'L' shape. The long length of the L will be 10 feet in total, but the width is only 2 feet. If anyone has any suggestions to use this space more efficiently please let me know. My other concern is that it is a bit congested so if anyone has any ideas to free up more space for buildings/scenery while keeping the basic premise of the layout that would be appreciated. Also, although set in the 1960's I was not born until 1990 so if anyone can see any major holes in the layout for 60's operations, such wisdom would be gratefully received. 

 

Rolling stock is currently a class 03, class 20, class 101, Standard 4 Tank, Stanier Jubilee and WD Austerity 2-8-0. Coaches are mainly suburban MK1's, with some standard MK1's plus, BR Vans, grain hoppers, coal hoppers and fuel tanks. Realistically-achievable maximum train length will be 4 Standard MK1's plus a tender locomotive- this would be able to 'run-around' in the top platform, but have to be 'shunt released' from the middle one.

 

All feedback is appreciated. If I've missed anything obvious information I will be happy to clarify. I've attached a crude diagram below:

 

1857299475_ModelRail2.png.3f7b521cd0e5f9516c51039a65fb65ae.png

Edited by Iskra
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The motive power you have sounds feasible but you would have to remove the Class 03 as they never were Scottish engines.  To be honest you wouldn’t go far wrong with the new Dapol Class 21 or some Heljan Class 17 “Clayton’s” to give it that “Scottish” feel.

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3 hours ago, Iskra said:

My main issue is that my baseboards will be like an 'L' shape. The long length of the L will be 10 feet in total, but the width is only 2 feet.

 

A very respectable space, and a space a lot of people would very much like to have - a far more frequent occurrence is to have 10'x2' that needs to include the fiddle yard...

 

If you haven't seen it yet there is a layout build thread for a Kyle of Lochalsh inspired N scale layout, link to the 2nd page posting that includes the track layout - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/152895-kyle-of-lochalsh-west/&do=findComment&comment=3928432

 

Note the main layout is 6.5'x1' (so call it approx. 13'x2' in OO), so it should be an good example of what can be done in your space.

 

3 hours ago, Iskra said:

If anyone has any suggestions to use this space more efficiently please let me know. My other concern is that it is a bit congested so if anyone has any ideas to free up more space for buildings/scenery while keeping the basic premise of the layout that would be appreciated.

 

There will be the usual advice to either angle the tracks a bit, or provide a gradual curve to them - the eye finds it more pleasing than when the tracks run perfectly parallel to the layout edge.

 

 

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If you want 100% accuracy it is possible that the Jubilee & the Standard Tank in BR days will have been repaired/overhauled/ repainted at the ex Caledonian St Rollox loco works in Glasgow.  If so, these locos will have the unique 10" high cabside numbers which you rarely see on Scottish based layouts.  However, locos overhauled/repainted at other ex LMS works in Scotland (such as Kilmarnock, Inverness or Inverurie) had the standard 8" high BR cabside numbers. The WD Austerities were normally overhauled at Crewe Loco Works.

 

As a trainspotter from the 1950s I can confirm that Scottish based Jubilees & Black Fives  occasionally ventured as far south as Leicester on the daily 'Carlisle Goods' or St Pancras on the Midland Main Line.  In the mid fifties there was a verified sighting of a Clan on a south bound express at St Albans.  Sad to say I missed it!

 

Peter

Edited by Crewlisle
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I do like your plan but have you considered adapting C. J. Freezer’s “Minories” plan as I think it would give you the same as you’ve got already but the added bonus of a double track rather than a single.  I think it might give you more operational scope in the long term.

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10 hours ago, jools1959 said:

The motive power you have sounds feasible but you would have to remove the Class 03 as they never were Scottish engines.  To be honest you wouldn’t go far wrong with the new Dapol Class 21 or some Heljan Class 17 “Clayton’s” to give it that “Scottish” feel.

 

The 03 is the MOD one from the Bachmann military manouvre's train set, so I'm hoping it can worm its way on that basis with the MOD sidings. Class 21 and 17 sound good though thank you! The remaining diesels are BR Green though.

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10 hours ago, crackedmember said:

One locomotive to avoid is Hornby's class 06 diesel shunter, it is terrible.

It is considerably over width, and an indifferent runner.

 

Thank you. All my fleet are currently Bachmann as I've never had any issues with their stock so I will try keep it that way as much as possible. I was looking at the Heljan class 27 though.

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9 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

A very respectable space, and a space a lot of people would very much like to have - a far more frequent occurrence is to have 10'x2' that needs to include the fiddle yard...

 

If you haven't seen it yet there is a layout build thread for a Kyle of Lochalsh inspired N scale layout, link to the 2nd page posting that includes the track layout - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/152895-kyle-of-lochalsh-west/&do=findComment&comment=3928432

 

Note the main layout is 6.5'x1' (so call it approx. 13'x2' in OO), so it should be an good example of what can be done in your space.

 

 

There will be the usual advice to either angle the tracks a bit, or provide a gradual curve to them - the eye finds it more pleasing than when the tracks run perfectly parallel to the layout edge.

 

 

 

Wow, thank you that is an excellent layout that gets a lot in, I will have a good look at that to see what inspiration I can draw from it.

 

I agree about keeping the tracks parallel, I think it looks better generally apart from like in the Kyle example where you want to convey an undulating branch line effect.

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5 hours ago, Crewlisle said:

If you want 100% accuracy it is possible that the Jubilee & the Standard Tank in BR days will have been repaired/overhauled/ repainted at the ex Caledonian St Rollox loco works in Glasgow.  If so, these locos will have the unique 10" high cabside numbers which you rarely see on Scottish based layouts.  However, locos overhauled/repainted at other ex LMS works in Scotland (such as Kilmarnock, Inverness or Inverurie) had the standard 8" high BR cabside numbers. The WD Austerities were normally overhauled at Crewe Loco Works.

 

As a trainspotter from the 1950s I can confirm that Scottish based Jubilees & Black Fives  occasionally ventured as far south as Leicester on the daily 'Carlisle Goods' or St Pancras on the Midland Main Line.  In the mid fifties there was a verified sighting of a Clan on a south bound express at St Albans.  Sad to say I missed it!

 

Peter

 

Thank you very much for the excellent information! I think at this point, being my first attempt, 100% accuracy is very optimistic :D During research I came across a photo of a Clan at Lancaster and guessed that was probably unusual, but you've done very well to hear of one at St Albans!

 

 

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4 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I do like your plan but have you considered adapting C. J. Freezer’s “Minories” plan as I think it would give you the same as you’ve got already but the added bonus of a double track rather than a single.  I think it might give you more operational scope in the long term.

 

That's a good idea I will have a look into it.

 

- - - - - - - - -

 

Thank you to everyone who has contributed suggestions thus far!

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You have 10' X 2' but how long is the Fiddleyard arm of the "L"    Many people would have eased the 2ft(?) radius curve and blended the curve into the platform but if the FY arm of the L is short that won't work  see squiggle.

Turntable is arranged to have trailing connection not facing, bit non standard but Kingswear GWR was a bit like that due to cramped site

Screenshot (278).png

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18 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

You have 10' X 2' but how long is the Fiddleyard arm of the "L"    Many people would have eased the 2ft(?) radius curve and blended the curve into the platform but if the FY arm of the L is short that won't work  see squiggle.

Turntable is arranged to have trailing connection not facing, bit non standard but Kingswear GWR was a bit like that due to cramped site

Screenshot (278).png

 

Hi, the entire bottom of the L would only be 6 foot in total (although it may be possible to extend it slightly if needed in the future). I was hoping to 'slew' the scenic break diagonally to provide more space on layout and a bit of space for a scenic area (small military camp, with associated buildings and a small custom-built small-arms firing-range). I do like the addition of that corner bit of triangular baseboard though, that is a great idea.

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That short L arm makes things difficult. Can't cut corner with approach track, have to get as close to wall as possible.

I did a doodle in Anyrail based on a loco and four coaches which is one more than your FY looks like holding. Min radius is approach curve, 4th radius Peco set track 22", min points radius is curved point approaching platforms at 2ft 6".    Bit unusual track layout, but hopefully logical.   Shunting is a bit complicated. Sidings hold at least 27 wagons max goods length about 12 for the loop 

Train arrives at Goods reception and sticks tail into HS. leaves tail pulls rest forward. loco runs round collects tail and shunts. then loco pushes rest of incoming into HS runs round again and shunts that.  HS holds around 7 or approx 1/2 the max train length which will fit the loop. Departure is reverse.  At night, off peak incoming goods can be left in platform while loco shunts yard and assembles outgoing goods before putting outgoing goods in the other platform and disposing of incoming

Screenshot (279 a).jpg

Screenshot (279 b).jpg

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2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

That short L arm makes things difficult. Can't cut corner with approach track, have to get as close to wall as possible.

I did a doodle in Anyrail based on a loco and four coaches which is one more than your FY looks like holding. Min radius is approach curve, 4th radius Peco set track 22", min points radius is curved point approaching platforms at 2ft 6".    Bit unusual track layout, but hopefully logical.   Shunting is a bit complicated. Sidings hold at least 27 wagons max goods length about 12 for the loop 

Train arrives at Goods reception and sticks tail into HS. leaves tail pulls rest forward. loco runs round collects tail and shunts. then loco pushes rest of incoming into HS runs round again and shunts that.  HS holds around 7 or approx 1/2 the max train length which will fit the loop. Departure is reverse.  At night, off peak incoming goods can be left in platform while loco shunts yard and assembles outgoing goods before putting outgoing goods in the other platform and disposing of incoming

Screenshot (279 a).jpg

Screenshot (279 b).jpg

 

I agree, the bottom of the L has made things much harder when seeing what works. The good news is that there is the physical possibility of an emergency fiddle yard extension when the layout is in use, up to another two feet if it was found to be absolutely necessary. I really like your design above, it fills the space well. Complicated shunting is no bad thing on a model rail layout! Thank you for the time and effort you have put into that.   

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9 hours ago, Iskra said:

During research I came across a photo of a Clan at Lancaster and guessed that was probably unusual, but you've done very well to hear of one at St Albans!

 

Not at all unusual. Glasgow to Manchester and Liverpool services were regular employment for Polmadie's Clans. 

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On 21/04/2020 at 18:53, pH said:

 

Not at all unusual. Glasgow to Manchester and Liverpool services were regular employment for Polmadie's Clans. 

 

I've recently come across some pictures of them in West Yorkshire too, which was also news to me!

 

Just by way of update, I have managed to secure an extra 2x4ft board to extend the fiddle yard on running days only, so that allows me to fit in everything I desire on the layout with the train length I was wanting too :)

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On 21/04/2020 at 15:05, DavidCBroad said:

That short L arm makes things difficult. Can't cut corner with approach track, have to get as close to wall as possible.

I did a doodle in Anyrail based on a loco and four coaches which is one more than your FY looks like holding. Min radius is approach curve, 4th radius Peco set track 22", min points radius is curved point approaching platforms at 2ft 6".    Bit unusual track layout, but hopefully logical.   Shunting is a bit complicated. Sidings hold at least 27 wagons max goods length about 12 for the loop 

Train arrives at Goods reception and sticks tail into HS. leaves tail pulls rest forward. loco runs round collects tail and shunts. then loco pushes rest of incoming into HS runs round again and shunts that.  HS holds around 7 or approx 1/2 the max train length which will fit the loop. Departure is reverse.  At night, off peak incoming goods can be left in platform while loco shunts yard and assembles outgoing goods before putting outgoing goods in the other platform and disposing of incoming

Screenshot (279 a).jpg

Screenshot (279 b).jpg

 

I do think the water is consuming quite a lot of space on that plan. If you bring the quayside forward, at least towards the right of the layout,  you could have at least a couple of the sidings the 'right way round'.  You'd have to do without the boat, but it would obstruct operation anyway and would probably lose its masts fairly frequently.

 

Also, I would be really tempted to try and take the headshunt offscene as an independent goods line with a junction a little way up the line.  It might not be possible - depends on the necessary curve radius.

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  • 7 months later...

Just by way of update, here is where I've got to:

 

I dispensed with the idea of an L-shape as the additional complication wasn't going to provide much additional benefit. So it's now just a total straight line.

 

The platform will be the 3 lines on the top right, providing two 'long' platforms with a bay cut out of the middle for stabling/motorail/DMU use (this will be from a Metcalfe platform kit). My station is now a terminus but also a junction between a secondary mainline and a branch line, a bit like at Fort William. This provides plenty of operational interest and movement possibilities with both lines having their own traffic but also moves between the two. There's a small shed and fuelling point, room for a small goods siding and a carriage siding too. It's all a bit congested, but it suits my agenda which is running lots of trains in a fairly small space. 

 

Excuse the current standard, there's still obviously much to be done at this point. 

MR1.jpg

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This may be far too late, but if I was doing something like that, I'd have the main line leaving the station close to one edge of the board, and disappearing behind scenery in time for a departing train to get fully out of sight, so it could be fiddled with one way or another without ruining the illusion.  Unless you go MU only, as a minimum you're going to have to remove the loco and shift it to the other end of every departing train (and shift the brake van too if it's a freight).  But I'd want more flexibility and would be tempted to use cassettes.

 

Thinking something like this, with plenty of scope for a kick-back goods yard off the hanging turnout ... not sure about the kick-back hidden siding under the roadway, probably more trouble than it's worth on second thoughts.

 

708623881_iskrajpg.jpg.c39e41cea56e44e815bf685000d1d290.jpg

There's a bit of a trade-off to be had between the length of the left-hand fiddle siding and platform lengths.  3 coach trains might just about fit.  I've tried to maintain your basic thinking as far as the station layout is concerned.

 

Good luck .....

 

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On 11/12/2020 at 17:33, Chimer said:

This may be far too late, but if I was doing something like that, I'd have the main line leaving the station close to one edge of the board, and disappearing behind scenery in time for a departing train to get fully out of sight, so it could be fiddled with one way or another without ruining the illusion.  Unless you go MU only, as a minimum you're going to have to remove the loco and shift it to the other end of every departing train (and shift the brake van too if it's a freight).  But I'd want more flexibility and would be tempted to use cassettes.

 

Thinking something like this, with plenty of scope for a kick-back goods yard off the hanging turnout ... not sure about the kick-back hidden siding under the roadway, probably more trouble than it's worth on second thoughts.

 

708623881_iskrajpg.jpg.c39e41cea56e44e815bf685000d1d290.jpg

There's a bit of a trade-off to be had between the length of the left-hand fiddle siding and platform lengths.  3 coach trains might just about fit.  I've tried to maintain your basic thinking as far as the station layout is concerned.

 

Good luck .....

 

 

It's not too late, the track isn't pinned down yet :) Firstly, thank you for your considered response.

 

There is a 4ft (ish) fiddle yard out of sight on the bottom of the picture, which allows 3 Mk1 carriages and a loco to operate, plus I use some suburban Mk1's and BG's, parcels vehicles etc which are shorter, a couple of DMU's feature; a 2 car 101, a Park Royal railbus and short freights so on thorough testing it does pretty much work.  The 'hand of god' does come into play sometimes at the fiddle yard end, but the beauty of including a small shed means I can run another locomotive 'light engine' onto the rear of a train and then just work it straight back from the fiddle yard or remove the engine on the arrived train, move the carriages slightly and simply place it at the back of the consist by hand. I'm fairly happy with that solution currently, although I can see why some people might not want to have to do that. In the space available, operational Loco-Hauled Stock perfection would be difficult and pure DMU's would be a bit dull, so I'm happy to compromise to make loco-hauled stock work.

 

I looked at some historical Scottish secondary mainline/suburban terminus' and found that shunt release and the subsequent inclusion of a carriage siding was a common method of working, so this was a deliberate decision and I quite like it because it adds more moves and therefore operational interest to the layout. Yes, I generally keep a spare loco and brakevan to enable this method of operation, but I think this is fairly realistic and it does make sense as it allows an arriving loco to be serviced before departure again. Alternatively, the station pilot can release a locomotive or shunt a brakevan to where it needs to be. I could currently make one of the platforms operate using 'run around,'quite easily and it would work but it also works without it and reduces operational interest. I might pop it in and then just use it some of the time. Cassettes are certainly something I would want to use in the future when my skills allow. 

 

The idea of the hidden track under the roadway is really interesting actually, I will give that some thought.

 

 

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On 01/05/2020 at 08:58, Iskra said:

I've recently come across some pictures of them in West Yorkshire too, which was also news to me!

 

Quite common working into Leeds and Bradford from Carlisle via the S&C and Aire Valley.

 

Apparently they weren't unpopular with the crews either when they were put on the right workings.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 2 months later...
On 22/02/2022 at 05:24, aardvark said:

Hello @Iskra, are you still with us?

 

I've just found your thread, and, if you're not making much progress, I would recommend Ian Futer's books.

Hi thank you, I am still here and since you enquired I will do a brief update:

 

- During testing I found that three platforms was too much operationally, so now I just have two and that works well.

- I've re-arranged the small shed area.

- I've sorted some platforms and spray painted them, plus sourced additional buildings.

- I have backscene boards ready to install and a photographic backscene to apply to them.- Ballasting is next on the agenda, which will see the placeholder scenic mats removed, I've painted the tops of boards dark brown underneath so that when I do ballasting/scenic work, if anything ever gets damaged or chipped it will just look like earth underneath.

- I've named the layout 'Fort George.'

- Yes, it's all very cliche and amateurish. 

- I found that I enjoy painting/weathering rolling stock so that has become a massive distraction.

 

Below are some photo's, please ignore the completely random selection of rolling stock

 

 

thumbnail_IMG_7326.jpg.5de79c4579bfc914a92fcab9c314a136.jpgthumbnail_IMG_7327.jpg.47c5c7c46057e9920aecea735aedc523.jpgthumbnail_IMG_7328.jpg.2aa953fd21c65e47ca798d9db830dab9.jpgthumbnail_IMG_7329.jpg.e32a788d7a2e51a9f556fbef536c76b1.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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