Phoenix (BSL) LMS coach builds

[ianLMS]

So, having recently finished construction of a Jamieson Jubilee, I thought I would turn my attention to another kit sitting in my drawer. Last year, I purchased from Ebay a Phoenix LMS coach kit. Not very expensive (£7) but I heard they were pretty good kits so I thought it was worth a punt. I had also purchased some old BSL bogies, again, not really knowing anything about them, a couple of quid seemed like a bargain. It appears that Phoenix used to be BSL, so it seems to have worked our extremely well!

 

Similar to Jamieson, the parts in the kit are pre-moulded sheets of metal (Aluminium in this case, instead of brass!) The kit included two sides with the window apertures already cut out, two WM detailed carriage ends, a floor, two pressed metal parts for the solebar, a pre-shaped roof and a few detailing parts (door vents, roof vents and buffers) plus basic drawing showing the door lines and roof ribs etc.

 

The bogies seem quite basic and I think I have worked out how they mount. Not 100% sure so any info will be greatly appreciated. I have ordered a Comet under-frame kit and some detailing parts which will make that job a little easier. I know the bogies from Comet are more accurate, but I am content with using the BSL ones. 

 

Pics of progress to follow! I have already marked out the doors with an Olfa cutter and drilled out the door handles and hand rail holes. Looking at it, I think I might try to paint the ends and sides first before I assemble the ends, sides and floor together. Might be much easier to line that way as well.

 

Thanks

Ian

Edited August 18, 2020 by ianLMS
amended title

[Barry O]

I have one of these. The sides are aluminium as are the floor items. To fasten them together start with a joint of Evostick. Once set apply Epoxy over the joins (Evo sticks to Aluminium, Epoxy sticks to the Evo.)  Don't worry about longevity I was building them like this in 1978! .

 

Originally the bogies would be fastened on via a plate which bolted onto the floor. Two bolts one either side of the bolt holding the bogies on. I use Bachmann RTR bogies or Comet ones as the BSL ones are heavy and can be difficult to to get to run freely.

 

They make up into a good, if basic, coach. I also have a comet one of these I think the BSL one is slightly short.

 

If you get stuck ..shout! Will try to help. (As it happens I have another one of these which I need to repaint . Best thing is that you can finish the sides before fastening them on teh shell. Makes it easier to paint and line!

 

Baz

[ianLMS]

Thank you Baz!! What do you use for glazing? The sides are quite thick and not much difference to the plastic kits and i believe the glazing in the stanier coaches should be almost flush. It will be a challenge to cut glazing to fit exactly in the opening. 

[Barry O]

I chicken out and put clear plasticard behind the windows. I stick these onto the sides using Johnsons Klear, holding the glazing in place with a set of clips.

 

I tried cutting individual windows out but life is too short!

 

Baz

[ianLMS]

I did wonder if thats going to be the easiest way out. I enjoyed reading your thread in the kitbuilding section and has given me plenty to look at and something to work to.

 

Much appreciated.

Ian

[Joseph_Pestell]

Would the South Eastern Finecast "Flushglaze" (intended for Dapol LMS Period 3 coaches) work?

[Barry O]

@Joseph_Pestell

 

That may be a way of doing it but it will be a bit awkward as the sides are thin aluminium ..the flushglaze has a big step to them to fit behind the plastic wall thickness.

 

The Klear seems to get the glazing very flush to the coach side wall. Unless you get really close up you don't notice it is not in the window frame.

 

I have a set of the glazing so will look to see what it is like.

 

Baz

[ianLMS]

I have microscope slides but last time i tried to use those i had a real job trimming them without them breaking up even with a diamond tip tool. I might have another go and see what happens

[Barry O]

People stopped using real glass in coaches as it can break when handled roughly. It was a real Pain as you coul dget little shards of very sharp glass.

 

Clear plasticard does work and the Klear will flow easily.

 

Baz

[hayfield]

On 28/04/2020 at 14:45, ianLMS said:

So, having recently finished construction of a Jamieson Jubilee, I thought I would turn my attention to another kit sitting in my drawer. Last year, I purchased from Ebay a Phoenix LMS coach kit. Not very expensive (£7) but I heard they were pretty good kits so I thought it was worth a punt. I had also purchased some old BSL bogies, again, not really knowing anything about them, a couple of quid seemed like a bargain. It appears that Phoenix used to be BSL, so it seems to have worked our extremely well!

 

Similar to Jamieson, the parts in the kit are pre-moulded sheets of metal (Aluminium in this case, instead of brass!) The kit included two sides with the window apertures already cut out, two WM detailed carriage ends, a floor, two pressed metal parts for the solebar, a pre-shaped roof and a few detailing parts (door vents, roof vents and buffers) plus basic drawing showing the door lines and roof ribs etc.

 

The bogies seem quite basic and I think I have worked out how they mount. Not 100% sure so any info will be greatly appreciated. I have ordered a Comet under-frame kit and some detailing parts which will make that job a little easier. I know the bogies from Comet are more accurate, but I am content with using the BSL ones. 

 

Pics of progress to follow! I have already marked out the doors with an Olfa cutter and drilled out the door handles and hand rail holes. Looking at it, I think I might try to paint the ends and sides first before I assemble the ends, sides and floor together. Might be much easier to line that way as well.

 

Thanks

Ian

 

Ian

 

Another kit for those who like model making, its a good move to buy the Comet underframe as they are nicely detailed and Comet also make the castings for the underframe

 

Nothing wrong with the BSL bogies, unless you require them compensated, they had a fixing system similar to Comet's in that there was a cast metal rubbing plate which held an 8ba nut and the bogies were attached to these (I can up load a photo if it helps. As you have the Comet underframe you can solder an 8ba nut to it then fit a large washer or two  to act as a rubbing plate

 

Do you have a wooden or Ali roof?

 

[ianLMS]

Good morning John, 

I ordered the underframe and the underframe detailing kit so will hopefully have the parts i need. The underframe has the solebar channel as well which means i wont need to use the thick aluminium one. The roof is aluminium and i have drilled the vent holes so most of it is ready for painting. Delivery is taking much longer these days so it may have to be put to on side while i wait for the the Comet stuff to arrive.

[Barry O]

Ian, check the length of the underframe against the sides. The BSL sides were not always the correct length (I will cueck my set of parts but the sides may be longer than they should be.)

Baz

[hayfield]

 

Ian

 

As it happens the ones at the top of my bogie box are BSL 9' bogies, if you don't have the castings they are easy to replicate

[ianLMS]

Putting the sides against the basic drawing they are a little short.i will trim the underframe to suit and thank you for the heads up. 

 

John. I have the castings and worked out how they operate. Quite a simple idea really. Just waiting for the underframe before i commence construction. I will however paint the main parts first though.

 

 

[Barry O]

Comet do a self adhesive tape for roof joints. It is very thin and looks the part.

 

You have the deluxe version with the internal corridor "walls". I have been building these using plasticard and Comet etches.

 

Baz

 

[ianLMS]

I did wonder if the roof joints are a little thick. I might have to see if i can rub them down rather than make a mess removing them. 

[rovex]

I've used ordinary writing paper cut into narrow strips and glued on and some people use masking tape

[Barry O]

The Comet reel is not expensive and seems to last forever! It is so much more easy to fit and it looks right.

 

 

I have adjusted the colour and light to show the tape on this roof for a Stanier PdIII BFK.

 

Hope this helps

 

Baz

 

[Barry O]

I blame Ian!!

 

I knew I had one of these I bought part built at a Warley Open Day

 

Interestingly enough it is a different diagram to the one I am building with Comet Sides. ( That was a rebuild of a set of Period II BCKs with Stanier steel sides (who says putting brass overlays on RTR coach sides is new!)  I may just finish this as it is not far off.

 

Now in the same box I found some more BSL coaches, First up a Period III RUO. Theses ran with a 50 ft Full Kitchen car. I already have two of these built up to run with two Kitchens.  If you want it it will cost postage. I won't be building another one!

 

The others are

 

 

an early PD III CK- this one will be finished as it is easy to do//paint sides, line, add glazing,, stick on... You can see the BSL bogie fixing holes on here

 

and...

 

 

another CK - back in the "too do pile although I have found an ali floor for it. I think you can make out the evilstik and epoxy joints.

 

and finally

 

 

a "Bitza" which has a Period II underframe (from Kirkstall Forge I think - an all steel coach) , a wooden roof with plasticard overlays portraying the Period II paneled roof.

 

So I guess these need finishing ..or for some into the roundtoit pile! 

 

Let me know about the RUO Ian.

 

Baz

 

 

[ianLMS]

Great pictures Baz - and yes, the very generous offer of the RUO is very much appreciated and accepted. Let me know via PM how you want to handle the transaction.

 

I will post some more pictures of progress in the next day or two. Over the weekend I was able to paint the sides, line them using Pressfix HRMS transfers (I tried the bow pen but it just would not work for me - definitely a technique that so far elludes me) part glaze and managed to complete the Comet underframe. 

 

Tonight or tomorrow night should see me complete the glazing and begin assembly of the parts.

 

Thanks

Ian

 

 

[Barry O]

Ian

 

I find us8ng lining transfers very frustrating. I have an ex lm artic pait I used them on..appears those ones are affected by gravity droop. 

I have started to use Tamiya acrilics for lining coaches. I only have black but others are on otder. But..you can get a straight fine line with them with no interruptions of the line.

 

Pm to go shortly

Baz

[ianLMS]

I can get the bow pen to work on other things like spare plastic sheet etc, but as soon as I try the coach side, nothing, or a big thick line. The pens were second hand so not sure if that makes a difference. I have the Precision Paints yellow lining enamel paint, thinned a little and followed various video's on how to use one, but still no use!

 

I find the Pressfix easier to handle as I apply them dry and you can adjust as you go before getting them wet. they are not perfect, but definitely better than what I could do with a pen!

[Barry O]

Ian

Mike Trice has a very informative thread on the painting and weathe ring theme on RMWEB.  May help with the lining

Baz

[ianLMS]

I had a quick look this afternoon on Mikes page. Very informative, thank you. 

 

Ian

[ianLMS]

Here is a pic showing current progress. The camera has skewed the detail but they are lined relatively straight (for a change!!)