D5026 BSYP

[Baby Deltic]

Hello All,

 

Following my thread on D5021, I'm looking for info on another class 24 to carry BSYP livery, specifically D5026, and whether it had double arrows on all four cab sides and where the numbers were positioned. Also the style of yellow panel and whether the valances were cut away or present in this livery.

 

I can't find an image of it but I did see a bit about a 'Rail Exclusive' from railexclusive.com showing the image below:

 

 

I'm wondering if this is the beast?

 

I've found a picture by Mercig Studios of one of their N Gauge resprays of D5099 and was wondering if the number style was the same:

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

BD

Edited April 29, 2020 by Baby Deltic

[keefer]

This post was in the D5021 thread, maybe @Swindon 123 can confirm the livery for you?

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by keefer

[Baby Deltic]

It would be nice to see the photo referred to. A bit curious about the number positions described in the SLW thread. Obviously the double arrows would need to be lower for the number to be under the second man's window.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Baby Deltic

[Halvarras]

I have a b&w photo up on the screen in front of me showing D5026 in 1970, front 3/4 from No1 end, facing left. Sourcing and copyright could be issues, so here's a description!

As a shortcut for the livery, if you can locate a photo of D7660 in Bsy, that is how it looks.

Basically the SLW illustrations have it correct - it has a data panel to the left of the works plate. The presence of the latter pushes the BR arrow logo up tight against the cabside window. The running numbers (Rail Alphabet style and still with D prefix - looks like they have a small "M" or "W" below........which was D05?....I can't remember!) are aligned with this, so the bodyside number is high up between the two lower grilles nearest the main radiator grille, with the number at the far end positioned in the usual place below the second man's window. The yellow panel is rectangular (no rounded upper corners) and quite large, extending from about 2" below the handrails to about 1" above the bottom edge of the connecting doors. OHLE flashes - one per end on the right-hand c/door in line with the marker lights, one per side between the two uppermost steps. These steps are panelled over but the boiler compartment grilles and filler ports are not. Most of the valance panels are there but those below the 2nd & 4th lower bodyside grilles (on this side anyway) are missing. Underframe tanks appear to be unmodified. 

Phew - I wish I could just have forwarded the photo!

 

Since D7660 and D5389 had red bufferbeams I'd assume SLW are right about that too. I find it amusing that Derby HQ flagged up Swindon's error in painting D1030's bufferbeams red when the works next door were doing the same thing!!

 

It's quite astonishing that so few photos exist of D5026's livery variation when it displayed it for 4 years. However it does appear in Strathwood's 'Sixties Diesel and Electric Days Remembered III' - take a very close look at page 109!

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

DO5 was WL.

 

Mike.

[Halvarras]

Thanks Mike, it was all so long ago now......... !

[Swindon 123]

 

Regarding the livery carried by D5026, both the photos I have in my collection are of the same side unfortunately, although from either end. What has been said above gives an idea of of the livery. This is what is said in Derby Sulzer . "

Condition August 1967: blue livery, small yellow warning panel, squared upper corners, full size fuel tank, shortened water tank, ridge sided sandboxes, two rung bogie mounted footsteps, hand/footholds present, valencing fitted; non-BIS side BR double arrow on driver's cabside, number located on bodyside and 2nd man's cabside".

Note by 1970 the bodyside hand and footholds had been plated over. The yellow warning panel was identical in size and shape to the one on green D5023 below, but it didn't have any multi working blue stars. Unfortunately I haven't come across a photo of the other side of the loco, so the position of the bodyside number on that side is nor known precisely, but I would expect it to be under the small boiler grill.  Note that 5026 came out of Derby Works in Feb 1971 in the normal center double arrow blue.

 

Hope the above is of help.

 

Paul J.

[MidlandRed]

On 29 April 2020 at 20:32, Baby Deltic said:

Hello All,

 

Following my thread on D5021, I'm looking for info on another class 24 to carry BSYP livery, specifically D5026, and whether it had double arrows on all four cab sides and where the numbers were positioned. Also the style of yellow panel and whether the valances were cut away or present in this livery.

 

I can't find an image of it but I did see a bit about a 'Rail Exclusive' from railexclusive.com showing the image below:

 

 

I'm wondering if this is the beast?

 

I've found a picture by Mercig Studios of one of their N Gauge resprays of D5099 and was wondering if the number style was the same:

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

BD

 

My recollection of this loco is of the arrows on the cab sides and the numbers on the body sides (as the late build D766x/D767x).

BR Derby was fastidious at this time (presumably following painting guide layouts) to put the numbers on the body sides to line up with the gaps between the horizontal 'rails' of the symbols. On 24/25s, the position of the works plates meant cab mounted symbols had to be directly under the windows and the numbers in a correspondingly high position to match the gap (except the last few build had the works plate moved to the cab door to avoid this). Brush 4s D1953-61, Peaks, D5909, D864 and repaints of Brush 2s at least in this late 66/early 67 period had this livery style. 

 

D5026 was at D02 Birmingham Division when repainted, at Bescot  (as was D5021) from Jan 66 to Autumn 67 - the small W appeared below all numbers on all main line locos (whatever livery) allocated to LM (Western Lines) which was any depot/Division on the ex LNWR routes in the LM Region. An M appeared under all numbers of any loco allocated to 'Midland Lines' - any LM Region depot on the old Midland route. Some CoBos appeared to have a stencilled NW under their numbers.

Re D5026 and buffer beam colour, I really don't remember - in the mid 60s transition period, they could be red, black (eg some shots of early class 20 blue livery) or rail blue (most class AL6 as built (the first were red no warning panel) and early AL3 repaints in blue syp along with D5701 for instance. As D5026 was done at Derby, if the whole layout/application was as D7661 then that seems to have had black buffer beams in this photo 

 

https://flic.kr/p/axugAE

 

If it was as D7660, then that had red buffer beams (and symbols at one end only, numbers on the cab at the other) - this may have been to overcome the works plate issue and subsequent paint jobs complying with the four symbols style. 

 

It would be interesting to see a photo to confirm. 

 

Incidentally the logic of BR logo at all four corners of the loco, according to Lawrence (British Rail Designed 1948-97), was to get the maximum exposure for the new 'image' and brand. This would also help with the regular problem of replacing accident damaged cabs and the apparent process of renumbering where a second hand one was used. Easier to see identity in works with the numbers on the main loco body. The state of cleanliness of some LMR freight locos negated this - which is possibly why although having multiple spotting records of seeing both D5021 and D5389 in bsyp, I didn't record the ferret and dartboard symbols - D5389 was one of the 'mostly only blue where the numbers have been cleaned' - like D4 at times.  However I didn't record the old BR symbols for the bsyp EM1s either. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by MidlandRed
Correction

[Baby Deltic]

On 30/04/2020 at 00:31, Neil Phillips said:

I have a b&w photo up on the screen in front of me showing D5026 in 1970, front 3/4 from No1 end, facing left. Sourcing and copyright could be issues, so here's a description!

As a shortcut for the livery, if you can locate a photo of D7660 in Bsy, that is how it looks.

Basically the SLW illustrations have it correct - it has a data panel to the left of the works plate. The presence of the latter pushes the BR arrow logo up tight against the cabside window. The running numbers (Rail Alphabet style and still with D prefix - looks like they have a small "M" or "W" below........which was D05?....I can't remember!) are aligned with this, so the bodyside number is high up between the two lower grilles nearest the main radiator grille, with the number at the far end positioned in the usual place below the second man's window. The yellow panel is rectangular (no rounded upper corners) and quite large, extending from about 2" below the handrails to about 1" above the bottom edge of the connecting doors. OHLE flashes - one per end on the right-hand c/door in line with the marker lights, one per side between the two uppermost steps. These steps are panelled over but the boiler compartment grilles and filler ports are not. Most of the valance panels are there but those below the 2nd & 4th lower bodyside grilles (on this side anyway) are missing. Underframe tanks appear to be unmodified. 

Phew - I wish I could just have forwarded the photo!

 

Since D7660 and D5389 had red bufferbeams I'd assume SLW are right about that too. I find it amusing that Derby HQ flagged up Swindon's error in painting D1030's bufferbeams red when the works next door were doing the same thing!!

 

It's quite astonishing that so few photos exist of D5026's livery variation when it displayed it for 4 years. However it does appear in Strathwood's 'Sixties Diesel and Electric Days Remembered III' - take a very close look at page 109!

I have all the Strathwood "Sixties Diesel & Electric Days" volumes, so I'll take a close look. Thanks for the scoop!

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

 

My recollection of this loco is of the arrows on the cab sides and the numbers on the body sides (as the late build D766x/D767x).

BR Derby was fastidious at this time (presumably following painting guide layouts) to put the numbers on the body sides to line up with the gaps between the horizontal 'rails' of the symbols. On 24/25s, the position of the works plates meant cab mounted symbols had to be directly under the windows and the numbers in a correspondingly high position to match the gap (except the last few build had the works plate moved to the cab door to avoid this). Brush 4s D1953-61, Peaks, D5909, D864 and repaints of Brush 2s at least in this late 66/early 67 period had this livery style. 

 

D5026 was at D02 Birmingham Division when repainted, at Bescot  (as was D5021) from Jan 66 to Autumn 67 - the small W appeared below all numbers on all main line locos (whatever livery) allocated to LM (Western Lines) which was any depot/Division on the ex LNWR routes in the LM Region. An M appeared under all numbers of any loco allocated to 'Midland Lines' - any LM Region depot on the old Midland route. Some CoBos appeared to have a stencilled NW under their numbers.

Re D5026 and buffer beam colour, I really don't remember - in the mid 60s transition period, they could be red, black (eg some shots of early class 20 blue livery) or rail blue (most class AL6 as built (the first were red no warning panel) and early AL3 repaints in blue syp along with D5701 for instance. As D5026 was done at Derby, if the whole layout/application was as D7661 then that seems to have had black buffer beams in this photo 

 

https://flic.kr/p/axugAE

 

If it was as D7660, then that had red buffer beams (and symbols at one end only, numbers on the cab at the other) - this may have been to overcome the works plate issue and subsequent paint jobs complying with the four symbols style. 

 

It would be interesting to see a photo to confirm. 

 

Incidentally the logic of BR logo at all four corners of the loco, according to Lawrence (British Rail Designed 1948-97), was to get the maximum exposure for the new 'image' and brand. This would also help with the regular problem of replacing accident damaged cabs and the apparent process of renumbering where a second hand one was used. Easier to see identity in works with the numbers on the main loco body. The state of cleanliness of some LMR freight locos negated this - which is possibly why although having multiple spotting records of seeing both D5021 and D5389 in bsyp, I didn't record the ferret and dartboard symbols - D5389 was one of the 'mostly only blue where the numbers have been cleaned' - like D4 at times.  However I didn't record the old BR symbols for the bsyp EM1s either. 

 

D5026 definitely shared the number positioning/style and single logo per side (driver's corners only) layout of D7660 and D5389, as well as their red bufferbeams according to the Strathwood pic. The BR blue 'progression' through that final batch of ex-Beyer Peacock order Class 25s shows how minds were changed as they went along! D7660 Bsy was as described above; D7661 was as D7660 but with BR logos on all four corners and bodyside numbers, and black bufferbeams; D7662-71 were as D7661 but with full yellow ends; and D7672-77 were as D7662-71 except that the works plates were moved from cabsides to cab doors to allow the BR logos to be positioned centrally on the cabsides with numbers aligned with these (i.e. lower down) which looked a lot neater.

Derby subsequently moved the works plates to cab doors when repainting BR Type 2s into this style, to get the logos into the 'right' positions, however this may not have been following published guidelines. I'm sure I've read somewhere that workshops were instructed not to waste time and money moving works plates around during repaints, although how they were then expected to replicate the standard cab logos/body numbers layout is anyone's guess! It appears that Derby and Swindon ignored this and moved them anyway, but Crewe played by the rules, which would explain why their first Class 47 repaints received cabside numbers (above unmoved works plates) with bodyside logos aligned with these - basically the reverse of D1953-61 - and were outshopping Class 25s well into 1970 with four cabside logos in the higher position because, unlike Derby, they left the works plates on the cabsides! I saw 5184 like this near ex-works at St Pancras in late July 1970 and thought it was strange at the time, because one central arrow per side on the 24s/25s was already established. However Crewe seemed to be doing its own thing at the time, 7562 &  7609 were likewise (and can anyone confirm 7599?) and then of course there's the mysterious treatment of 6882/3 that April (and even on those two they put the data panels in different places), however that's getting a bit OT.

I recall finding D7676 in its original blue livery parked in the down sidings at Truro on 21/10/71 (late arriving due to the shoddy state of most of the Class 25s foisted on the WR, which is why I'd been seeing 6330 & 6334 in Truro yard a week or so after their 'official' withdrawal date) and not bothering to take a photo because of the cars parked in front of it. I'd see it again I thought, without the cars........oh no I didn't! I made that kind of mistake a number of times, sadly. 

[MidlandRed]

1 hour ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

D5026 definitely shared the number positioning/style and single logo per side (driver's corners only) layout of D7660 and D5389, as well as their red bufferbeams according to the Strathwood pic. The BR blue 'progression' through that final batch of ex-Beyer Peacock order Class 25s shows how minds were changed as they went along! D7660 Bsy was as described above; D7661 was as D7660 but with BR logos on all four corners and bodyside numbers, and black bufferbeams; D7662-71 were as D7661 but with full yellow ends; and D7672-77 were as D7662-71 except that the works plates were moved from cabsides to cab doors to allow the BR logos to be positioned centrally on the cabsides with numbers aligned with these (i.e. lower down) which looked a lot neater.

Derby subsequently moved the works plates to cab doors when repainting BR Type 2s into this style, to get the logos into the 'right' positions, however this may not have been following published guidelines. I'm sure I've read somewhere that workshops were instructed not to waste time and money moving works plates around during repaints, although how they were then expected to replicate the standard cab logos/body numbers layout is anyone's guess! It appears that Derby and Swindon ignored this and moved them anyway, but Crewe played by the rules, which would explain why their first Class 47 repaints received cabside numbers (above unmoved works plates) with bodyside logos aligned with these - basically the reverse of D1953-61 - and were outshopping Class 25s well into 1970 with four cabside logos in the higher position because, unlike Derby, they left the works plates on the cabsides! I saw 5184 like this near ex-works at St Pancras in late July 1970 and thought it was strange at the time, because one central arrow per side on the 24s/25s was already established. However Crewe seemed to be doing its own thing at the time, 7562 &  7609 were likewise (and can anyone confirm 7599?) and then of course there's the mysterious treatment of 6882/3 that April (and even on those two they put the data panels in different places), however that's getting a bit OT.

I recall finding D7676 in its original blue livery parked in the down sidings at Truro on 21/10/71 (late arriving due to the shoddy state of most of the Class 25s foisted on the WR, which is why I'd been seeing 6330 & 6334 in Truro yard a week or so after their 'official' withdrawal date) and not bothering to take a photo because of the cars parked in front of it. I'd see it again I thought, without the cars........oh no I didn't! I made that kind of mistake a number of times, sadly. 

 

Thanks for confirming, and yes a fascinating time. Are your pictures in D02 or D05 days? Although DO5 was Stoke Division in reality the major maintenance depot was Crewe Diesel and DO5 class 24 locos could be seen as far afield as Holyhead, Barmouth, Blaenau and Birmingham. I recall the shock at finding in 1969 a line of withdrawn class 24s parked away from the other locos at Crewe South and missing certain cab fittings and the like. Most eventually got overhauled and reinstated. My spotting books cease to contain any detail other than scrawled numbers when bunking sheds (the occassional C for cabbed locos like those dumped D500x and 501x) - we bunked Crewe Diesel on weekdays on numerous occassions - seems extraordinary we never got challenged now - perhaps they thought we were a bunch of apprentices or office staff!.... 

 

Swindon tried very hard to comply but the presence of Hymeks (cast numerals) and Westerns (cast GWR like number and nameplates) dictated they would need to abandon those or have a different approach (same for the WCML AC electrics on the LMR). The out shopping of D864 Zambesi was a valiant attempt to comply but unfortunately failed in very obvious detail,  using the wrong numeral font (serif - also used on some class 22s). The brown underframe coverings looked absolutely awful on this loco anyway so it was no surprise when later Warship repaints appeared with centre bodyside BR symbols, blue underframe coverings and numbers at each corner - almost replicating the Western class approach and the same as the Hymeks - I think D831 at least got serif font numbers as well? 

 

A very interesting period in BR history. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by MidlandRed

[Halvarras]

Being based in Cornwall until 1972 I didn't see Class 25s very often, until of course they turned up in Cornwall! Here's my Instamatic photo of the very first one, 5180, at St Blazey on Monday 16/8/71, 18 days after it first turned up in them parts (and curse that junction box!) It was still carrying cast 55A (Leeds Holbeck) shed plates, as well as 'EBBW JUNC' stickers on all 4 corners. So far this is the earliest photo I know of showing a Class 25 in Cornwall........ 5180 had been at Penzance on 31/12/71 and had the task of towing the last 4 Class 22s (D6333/6/8/9) away from the South West, which may have jinxed it as it was itself withdrawn with collision damage less than 5 years later!

 

I've located the photo I took of 5184 at St Pancras on 25/7/70 showing its ex-works condition but 'old' style livery as applied by Crewe. Apologies for the poor quality of the photo. Note the high positions of BR logos/numbers dictated by the cabside works plate at the far end. 7609 was still in this condition when renumbered 25259, but I don't think 5184 made it (?)

 

Gosh, Warship liveries.........let's not get into that huge subject here! Suffice to say that 25, from a quick mental count, including D831 & D600/2 but not Laira repaint 826, received serif numbers on blue, mainly because Swindon (like Inverurie) didn't switch to the later style until the beginning of 1968. Class 22 overhauls were suspended at the end of 1967, this explains why none were ever seen with the later numbers with D prefixes.

You're absolutely right about bunking depots back then, I often wonder myself now how on earth we got away with it! I rarely obtained permits, just turned up and hoped for the best, but always tried to look like I was taking care and 'looking both ways'.

 

 

[MidlandRed]

21 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

Being based in Cornwall until 1972 I didn't see Class 25s very often, until of course they turned up in Cornwall! Here's my Instamatic photo of the very first one, 5180, at St Blazey on Monday 16/8/71, 18 days after it first turned up in them parts (and curse that junction box!) It was still carrying cast 55A (Leeds Holbeck) shed plates, as well as 'EBBW JUNC' stickers on all 4 corners. So far this is the earliest photo I know of showing a Class 25 in Cornwall........ 5180 had been at Penzance on 31/12/71 and had the task of towing the last 4 Class 22s (D6333/6/8/9) away from the South West, which may have jinxed it as it was itself withdrawn with collision damage less than 5 years later!

 

I've located the photo I took of 5184 at St Pancras on 25/7/70 showing its ex-works condition but 'old' style livery as applied by Crewe. Apologies for the poor quality of the photo. Note the high positions of BR logos/numbers dictated by the cabside works plate at the far end. 7609 was still in this condition when renumbered 25259, but I don't think 5184 made it (?)

 

Gosh, Warship liveries.........let's not get into that huge subject here! Suffice to say that 25, from a quick mental count, including D831 & D600/2 but not Laira repaint 826, received serif numbers on blue, mainly because Swindon (like Inverurie) didn't switch to the later style until the beginning of 1968. Class 22 overhauls were suspended at the end of 1967, this explains why none were ever seen with the later numbers with D prefixes.

You're absolutely right about bunking depots back then, I often wonder myself now how on earth we got away with it! I rarely obtained permits, just turned up and hoped for the best, but always tried to look like I was taking care and 'looking both ways'.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info - fascinating stuff. I love the pictures, but especially 5184 at St Pancras. Personally, I think these look good with the high mounted symbols on each cab and high mounted numbers - you can see from that photo how the numbers line up with the gaps between the arrows.

This was the second class 25 (D5183 the first) which was allocated to what became the Midland Lines, heralding a complete change - I think they may have replaced the ubiquitous Fowler 4Fs, but clearly these and the later builds were a feature of both ML, and slightly later, WL in the West Midlands and appeared to perform well at the work they were given - I recall seeing D5232 and D5233 new and being astonished at the differences - we had to (generally) travel south west to the likes of Bristol to see what we considered, exotic hydraulic power in any quantity (although Gloucester seemed to swap D95xx, which were stored or reallocated, for class 22s for remaining branch line work at the end of 1966 - I wonder if there was a swap around and the D95xx stored with the closure of the ex Southern Cornwall and Devon routes - also late 1966). The Lickey Bankers in the late 60s (D7021-5) did escape on to other workings including a daily parcels train which delighted north Birmingham train spotters and often closely followed by E3100, also on a daily working (4Sxx headcode - not sure of the numerals). 

 

I have read the threads on Warship liveries - extremely convoluted and as you say, best avoided - but hadn't appreciated the serif were used for so long. I guess not needing numbers for repaints of D1000s or 7000s limited the need for at Swindon for use of numerals - however you would have thought there'd been an instruction on this. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by MidlandRed

[Halvarras]

As evident in the photo of 5180, the D5179-82 batch were not boiler-fitted so had no underframe water tank - a detail missed by Bachmann when they released D5182. The first one I saw in Truro was 5179, in Aug 71 - this one had blanked boiler grilles and exposed side steps, 5180 was the other way around, what a confusing time!

I also preferred the 'balanced' look of the BR blue scheme carried by 5184, itself based on the XP64 D1733 layout, but whoever thought this could be applied to all double-cabbed locos had obviously never clapped eyes on a Class 22!

In April 1969 I was told about D7022 seen passing through Truro on an up passenger working, I have never seen confirmation of this and still wonder if a Lickey banker could have made it that far. I was told it was filthy, which would fit. I think there was some talk of it having visited Laira for tyre turning but surely Canton was closer and in any case, why diagram it to travel to Penzance while it was there? That story is still a mystery.

[MidlandRed]

On 4 May 2020 at 18:34, Neil Phillips said:

 

In April 1969 I was told about D7022 seen passing through Truro on an up passenger working, I have never seen confirmation of this and still wonder if a Lickey banker could have made it that far. I was told it was filthy, which would fit. I think there was some talk of it having visited Laira for tyre turning but surely Canton was closer and in any case, why diagram it to travel to Penzance while it was there? That story is still a mystery.

 

Interesting - I can only go from observations but I have spotting records of trips from BNS to either Bristol or Cardiff in that period (1968/9) and on at least a couple of occasions not all the bankers were there (D7022/3 were missing on one occassion). As they were actually allocated to Bath Road they presumably went there for larger jobs whereas to Worcester for day to day work - I guess if it went to Laira it may have been diagrammed for services to get back to its base area - I suppose it's also possible one got borrowed to replace a failure - I think there was a Sutton Coldfield motorail service to Cornwall at that time. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by MidlandRed

[Halvarras]

By pure coincidence I've just had the first email in over a year from the guy who told me about D7022's Cornish visit and he mentioned this event, identifying the train as the 0855 Penzance - Liverpool!

'Tis a strange ol' world at times....!

IIRC when the DEPG were checking out the last few Hymeks for a preservation candidate they looked at D7022 but underbody corrosion was an issue. D7026 was a strong contender but D7017 ultimately won the day. I didn't mind as '17 was one of the very few Hymeks I copped in Cornwall, I found it parked in Truro' s bay platform in autumn 1967 - I was very surprised, I had expected D7029 or D7088......

[br2975]

D5026 at Walsall, February 1967.

.

Photo by Colin Moss.

[br2975]

D5027 at St. Helens, 1973

.

Photographer unknown.

[br2975]

D5028, location unknown, circa 1969.

.

Photographer unknown.

[w124bob]

Interestingly 5027 is the only disc fitted cl 24 I've seen with ploughs, there are several pictures spread over the blue era with it plough fitted including a nice shot on Newton Heath standing with their breakdown train. 

[Swindon 123]

On 15/08/2020 at 13:52, w124bob said:

Interestingly 5027 is the only disc fitted cl 24 I've seen with ploughs, there are several pictures spread over the blue era with it plough fitted including a nice shot on Newton Heath standing with their breakdown train. 

The only other disc 24 one I've found with miniature ploughs is D5077. There are a couple of photos of it. The best is on the "Derby-Sulzer" website, (a veritable mine of information on anything Sulzer), 

 

There is also a shot on David Fords Flickr site.  

 

 

Paul J.

[MidlandRed]

On 9 August 2020 at 22:34, br2975 said:

D5026 at Walsall, February 1967.

.

Photo by Colin Moss.

 

Very interesting shot and both D5026, D5021 and other class 24s were regulars owing to D02 (in this case Bescot) allocation at this time. However, the full electric passenger service to Walsall began in the spring of 1967 along with electric trains on the rest of the grand junction, and Rugby to Stafford via Bham New Street and Wolverhampton.

 

This shot is on the down side facing north and interestingly there are no masts or wires - presumably only the up side was electrified at this time as the trains terminated at Walsall at the time.

Edited August 19, 2020 by MidlandRed

[GRUNFOS]

On 09/08/2020 at 22:37, br2975 said:

D5027 at St. Helens, 1973

.

Photographer unknown.

 

Did it, or any others, get TOPS numbers with the arrows in this position?

Paul.

[Halvarras]

Hi Paul, I don't think 5027 did, but two which did for certain are 24076 and 24086. 

 

24112 and 24113 sort of did too, but on those two the BR logos on the driver's cabsides were painted out and the number placed there instead, so number on one end and logo on the other. 

[GRUNFOS]

5 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

Hi Paul, I don't think 5027 did, but two which did for certain are 24076 and 24086. 

 

24112 and 24113 sort of did too, but on those two the BR logos on the driver's cabsides were painted out and the number placed there instead, so number on one end and logo on the other. 

Thanks Neil,

Possible renumbering for my next SLW 24.

 

Regards Paul.