Jump to content
Image restoration from pre-May 2021 continues and may take an indefinite period of time.

Recommended Posts

Next up, something simpler, an ABS Models white metal 6 plank LNER wagon, carrying wagon sheets back to the depot for cleaning and re-use.

I realised I should have said that I model in 4mm, and I'm not into weathering - I guess that's obvious :). Also, I hope those who dislike them will overlook the RTR-style tension-lock couplings: I run kit-built stock alongside RTR so I've become 'coupling-blind'!

 

IMG_3405.jpg.6aedc26714a567540b8bce829199818c.jpg

 

IMG_3408.jpg.093e8b67220bde9a0e52fcbf1dcac4a1.jpg

 

IMG_3406.jpg.f45d700ddc231cd5ff82bb3f4ce20b9d.jpg

 

IMG_3407.jpg.3c5703c68460934ca5e3212ea534f968.jpg

 

  • Like 10
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is an ex-GCR Bogie Fish Van in LNER livery. It's the Brassmasters reissue of an R&E kit and went together very nicely, including the multiple side overlays to produce the slatted sides. The 'N' & 'E' on the sides were delicate work: I used waterslide so they would sit as flat as possible and once fully dry, the sections between the slats were cut out with a razor blade. The red oxide paint was Railmatch, the roof Humbrol. I should also say that on all my brass and white metal builds, everything's soldered other than the very tiniest detailing.

I think one of my main faults is a tendency to apply too much paint, from a fear of insufficient coverage; the thickness of even two coats (plus varnish to protect the transfers) builds up very quickly - I know it's something I need to pay more attention to on future builds.

I am gradually building up a fish train, so other fish vans will appear from time to time. My fondness for fish vans is borne of a fondness for eating fish - seeing wagonloads of it going by on the layout always turns thoughts to dinner...:P

 

IMG_3098.jpg.b9350478a7cda5d4c0ae179e7330fe64.jpg

 

IMG_3102.jpg.6d3e3e2a219a8acfc792e39ca081d58c.jpg

 

IMG_3101.jpg.0b50469cdc0449dd9c487e06653a39f2.jpg

 

IMG_3100.jpg.3d0c5ba06074aaef76f55b06da9634c7.jpg

 

IMG_3099.jpg.ae21cedada8a518bdc42a278944c8618.jpg

  • Like 13
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would recomend Lanarkshire Models for Vacumn Pipes , those are a tad oversize !! Nice model.

 

Re decals I use the  HMRS versions, they are slightly thicker, but much stronger when cutting as above is needed.

Edited by micklner
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

All very nicely done and a pleasure to see.

 

A couple of questions - do you happen to know whether anyone does the monogram transfers for ECJS passenger stock and were sheets transported flat or were they folded and rolled (and often stood on end)?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mick; I can't remember where the vac pipes on the 15 ton fish van came from - it was built a couple of years ago. There has been some size variation in the vac pipes I've used to date because they've come from different sources, so I'll have a look at Lanarkshire's ones which I haven't tried.

I just finished my first loco build recently (pics to follow in due course) and tried Markits turned brass vac pipes (in order to solder the pipe to the underside of the white metal kit's front buffer beam for strength) but once I'd finished it I did wonder if that one didn't look a bit oversize too...

Interesting point about decals and thickness+strength versus flatness: I use HMRS for the most part and much prefer the look of them to other brands (especially where multiple colour layers are present) but I was worried here that the thin sections left in place on the slats might look odd if they were too thick. In the event the cutting was pretty touch and go, precisely because they were so thin!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

All very nicely done and a pleasure to see.

 

A couple of questions - do you happen to know whether anyone does the monogram transfers for ECJS passenger stock and were sheets transported flat or were they folded and rolled (and often stood on end)?

 

Thanks Jonathan :)

 

In answer to your questions: Do you mean does anyone do the ECJS passenger stock as 4mm transfers? I used HMRS - sheet 40 (GNR & ECJS) has at least two styles of crest from memory.

 

I don't quite understand your question though about the sheets being transported flat or folded and rolled - if you mean the 4mm transfer sheets, I've never seen them displayed or delivered as anything other than flat. If you mean full-size ones as applied to prototype coaches, I'm afraid I don't know... though now I'm thinking about it, I do have a dim memory of seeing some vintage film online of full-size crests being applied at a coach works and seeing them unroll something...?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Sorry not to have been clear.  I made the 1938 ECJS train for Grantham and used the HMRS sheet for that.   That's fine as far as it goes, but if you look at this photograph, for example, there's a crest on the first class doors (which the HMRS sheet covers) and a monogram on the third class door (nearest the camera) which is not there.   I simply wondered, if you're modelling that period, whether you'd come across anyone else producing that as a transfer.

 

'Sheets' - I was referring to wagon sheets.   I saw yours were laid flat in the wagon and I have a memory that I was told that they were laid out to dry, then folded, rolled and stood on end (they must have roped round them to prevent them unrolling).   I've never seen a picture to prove this so again it's a question I keep asking until someone can answer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In Midland Record Number 3 there is reproduced the LMS instructions for sheeting which states they must be folded and should not be stored flat but on their sides or ends and preferably under cover. This leads to the question were they covered by a sheet when being sent by wagon which is why there isn't a picture?

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jonathan, I have indeed seen your 1938 ECJS train on your workbench thread, so please excuse me for pointing out which HMRS sheet has ECJS: grandmothers and eggs, etc! No, I haven't found anyone else doing ECJS transfers yet, and I have looked as I do particularly like the livery and style, which has a slightly more ornate and old-fashioned look than those that superseded it.

 

Regarding the 6 plank wagon's cargo, no need to apologise, you were perfectly clear and I realise now how I confused myself: its quite obvious what you meant in referring to 'sheets'! For that wagon, I actually worked from a photo of another modeller's wagon with a similar cargo in (I think) an old issue of the LNER Society Journal. He had the sheets folded flat as I do, and I rather liked the random pattern of numbers, dates and 'LNER' lettering that resulted; I'm afraid it didn't occur to me at the time that it might be inauthentic practice! Were I to do another one I'd adhere to prototype but I'm too fond of this one to change it now :).

 

To Paul, thank you for the reply, nice point and yes, if the sheets for refurbishment were themselves sheeted, we certainly wouldn't have seen photographic evidence. The question of 'how they sheeted the sheets' makes me think of 'who shall guard the guardians'? Or, in these strange lockdown times, how shall we wash the soap? ^_^

Edited by Chas Levin
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

A couple of questions - do you happen to know whether anyone does the monogram transfers for ECJS passenger stock and were sheets transported flat or were they folded and rolled (and often stood on end)?

Not to my knowledge. I am doing artwork for some 12"/1foot transfers for the LNERCA.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Today's model is another D&S kit, the LNER Pigeon Brake (I know there has been some debate about whether this was the correct name and purpose of these vehicles, but I think it sounds attractive). Built according to the instructions except that like the ECJS Luggage Brake above, I discarded the plastic roof in favour this time of a Comet extruded aluminium one - I think it has a better profile and also promises to remain that way for more years than the plastic might do. Teak once again from Phoenix Precision paints; white roofs I do using Halfords white primer, followed by one of their slightly off-white car shades - I think this one was Rover White - with a coat of Railmatch matt varnish on top. No flickering tail-lamp this time I'm afraid - it was done before I'd discovered Train-Tech. A very elegant vehicle (as was almost everything Gresley had a hand in), a pleasure to build and to run :)IMG_3076.jpg.84278ed01a4926a4eed9bd53582aede8.jpg

 

IMG_3075.jpg.a892fe33d1e22cbc0f3dd750ff381c88.jpg

 

IMG_3074.jpg.8ac055512bb9cd0a0ce3ab3f75c8a2a8.jpg

 

IMG_3077.jpg.1fef1e76643034a7fa4dd99f247988c7.jpg

 

IMG_3073.jpg.3ba34220d73b62237bf8f6097044277a.jpg

 

Happy modelling, Chas  :bye:

  • Like 8
  • Agree 1
  • Craftsmanship/clever 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning to all on a sunny Thursday :). This morning's vehicle is a 7 ton mineral wagon from the NBR, with dumb buffers. It's a Model Wagon Co white metal kit; transfers were from Railtec and the real coal continues to be supplied by a crushed up piece that came years ago from a heritage railway...

 

IMG_3441.jpg.cdfde7bc0ab77e078b27e16520c54d2f.jpg

 

IMG_3440.jpg.7e9f0356a1b595b4740a9725c472af11.jpg

 

 

IMG_3443.jpg.377adc676c8570ab5de6213c072816dc.jpg

 

IMG_3444.jpg.8bbe551ccf5e23dcd540e52156098730.jpg

  • Like 11
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Today's offering is an LNER Pipe wagon with a load of steel pipes. The kit was a quite old Sutherland Models one - white metal underframe and plastic body - that came in a very nice box. The load I made from brass pipe; looking at it now they do look a little bright and clean (artists's silver aerosol) but quite attractive I think. The chains were from Cambrian Models, the red oxide is Phoenix Precision and the transfers HMRS. Following on from Mick's earlier post about the 15 ton fish van, I'd now say that the vac pipes on this wagon look a little large too... :rolleyes: but overall it looks good in mid-freight train:

 

IMG_3423.jpg.ac8062dcb50b9dae6c1191c314386df0.jpg

 

IMG_3422.jpg.a589f4a15eba5d25fabf7e52a20e087c.jpg

 

IMG_3424.jpg.86fc3020870c2e4555fb11959bb8b742.jpg

 

IMG_3425.jpg.517d3ceaa48bf36ec3156e428c6f33d0.jpg

 

IMG_3426.jpg.ab42c1a11d08d4e7a8885b9d5e6cf4be.jpg

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Today's offering is an LNER Pipe wagon with a load of steel pipes. The kit was a quite old Sutherland Models one - white metal underframe and plastic body - that came in a very nice box. The load I made from brass pipe; looking at it now they do look a little bright and clean (artists's silver aerosol) but quite attractive I think. The chains were from Cambrian Models, the red oxide is Phoenix Precision and the transfers HMRS. Following on from Mick's earlier post about the 15 ton fish van, I'd now say that the vac pipes on this wagon look a little large too... :rolleyes: but overall it looks good in mid-freight train:

 

 

Good evening Chas Levin,

 

one small point amongst your enjoyable modelling. Pipe wagons were designed so that it wasn't necessary to use chains or other forms of securing that could damage the pipe, especially if it was a material such as cast iron. The high sides allowed the pipes to be chocked and braced to prevent movement. In effect, you have turned your pipe wagon into a double bolster wagon. Double bolsters require chains to secure a load in place and stanchions to stop the load moving about. You load is free to move about wherever it wants within the wagon.

 

The image below, though only a model, demonstrates how Stanton iron works loaded two layers of cast iron pipes into a pipe wagon. The bracing prevents movement and the straw protects the pipes from damage. I hope this is of use.

pipes and straw.jpg

Edited by Headstock
add info.
  • Like 8
  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

"...Pipe wagons were designed so that it wasn't necessary to use chains or other forms of securing that could damage the pipe, especially if it was a material such as cast iron. The high sides allowed the pipes to be chocked and braced to prevent movement. In effect, you have turned your pipe wagon into a double bolster wagon. Double bolsters require chains to secure a load in place and stanchions to stop the load moving about. You load is free to move about wherever it wants within the wagon.

The image below, though only a model, demonstrates how Stanton iron works loaded two layers of cast iron pipes into a pipe wagon. The bracing prevents movement and the straw protects the pipes from damage. I hope this is of use..."

 

Thanks Andrew, yes, that is of use. I think you must be right that I was unconsciously thinking of the bolster wagon style of loading and although I tried to stop side-to-side movement, I completely failed to think about forward and backwards sliding: clearly, if mine were a full-size railway, I'd be in serious trouble! I don't want to risk damage by trying to remove the load to repack it, but I could certainly add end bracing; the wood that the pipes currently resting on and between is from sections of a thick firefighter match.

I have various loads in mind for other kit built - and RTR - wagons, including some based on ideas in Trevor Pott's occasional MRJ series 'Wagons Loads through Churston 1934" which I expect you've seen?

Your Pipe wagon is very fine, thank you for posting the picture. How - and from what - did you make the straw packing? Also, the sides look to have finer detail than my Sutherland example - whose kit is it please?

 

Chas

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect Andrew's used Plumber's hemp for the straw - it's surprisingly easy to find (considering plumbers haven't used it in my lifetime).   You can get hold of it from hardware shops or scenic suppliers (sold for thatching buildings).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Thanks Andrew, yes, that is of use. I think you must be right that I was unconsciously thinking of the bolster wagon style of loading and although I tried to stop side-to-side movement, I completely failed to think about forward and backwards sliding: clearly, if mine were a full-size railway, I'd be in serious trouble! I don't want to risk damage by trying to remove the load to repack it, but I could certainly add end bracing; the wood that the pipes currently resting on and between is from sections of a thick firefighter match.

I have various loads in mind for other kit built - and RTR - wagons, including some based on ideas in Trevor Pott's occasional MRJ series 'Wagons Loads through Churston 1934" which I expect you've seen?

Your Pipe wagon is very fine, thank you for posting the picture. How - and from what - did you make the straw packing? Also, the sides look to have finer detail than my Sutherland example - whose kit is it please?

 

Chas

 

 

Good morning Chas,

 

you've got a couple of things bang on. There were restrictions on how high pipes could be stacked in a pipe wagon, (overloaded wagons being par for the course in model railway land). No more than a third of the diameter of a pipe was allowed above the sides I seem to recall. Cradles were employed, especially for larger diameter pipes, as you have done. In addition, batons would be placed between layers to allow slinging. The loading would vary quite a bit depending on how important it was to protect the pipe from damage. Some small diameter pipes would be just laid flat in the bottom of the wagon for example, while those with complicated flanges would be well protected.

 

With regard to bolsters, don't forget that a cradle would be not enough, the stanchions must protect the load also in terms of height and the chains were shackled to the wagon.

 

My own information about wagon sheeting, that comes directly from the LNER's own traffic committee reports, is that they were treated exactly as Paul Cram explains in his post. The sheets would be folded, sort of like a concertina, and stood on end. The protective waterproof covering was quite sticky, if laid flat, they had a tendency to stick together and effectively become a write-off. You can clearly see on some sheets a set of painted on lines that designated where they were to be folded.

 

On straw, I used sisal, this is not as course as plumbers hemp and looks quite a bit better. Our scenic guys use it quite a bit. The sides of the pipe wagon are identical to yours, it being the same kit. It's just the weathering that disguises the edge lines better.

Edited by Headstock
pipe wagon, not pie wagon.
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

For instructions on loading and also how to fold and store wagon sheets, the BR documents on the Barrowmore Model Railway Group website are a goldmine. Scroll down to the end of the "Freight Vehicles and Operation" section, just before "ON Track Plant". Where I've seen pre-grouping instructions, e.g. in the LNWR Wagons books, they are pretty much identical so my belief is that one can take these 1950s/60s instructions as valid for at least the previous half-century, if not longer.

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jonathan and Andrew :good_mini:. I'd never heard of plumbers hemp or sisal before; I shall investigate sources.

 

Sounds like I could get away with adding end bracing to the pipe wagon - I'll have to do that, because now it's been pointed out, it looks to me as if the pipes are about to slide up and bang on the end of the wagon each time it starts and stops! I'll leave the chains in place though, partly because I like the look of them, and partly for the slight movement in them when the wagon's rolling. Glad to hear I got the height right (instinctive assumption that any higher would be frowned upon) and the cradle. I don't think I can introduce inter-layer batons though...

 

Interested to hear that your Pipe Wagon kit was the same manufacturer's Andrew; it's kind of you to ascribe the difference in detail definition to your weathering, rather than to my somewhat generous application of paint! I find it difficult not to worry about uneven or patchy covering: I must practise applying the thinnest of coats and then leaving well alone.

 

Also intersted to hear more about how wagon sheets were returned to the depot; I think I'll have to ascribe the incorrect loading of my 6 plank to hasty or poor practice at a small local freight yard, while I continue to enjoy the aesthetic of the letters and numbers ^_^. It hadn't occurred to me that the waterproofing might be sticky, but I bet it was some sort of tar or bitumen so that seems very likely, doesn't it? Also interested to learn that some of the lines on the sheets were to indicate folds - I had wondered what some of the lines were in some photos...

 

Chas

Link to post
Share on other sites

On this hot and sunny Saturday afternoon, here's another D&S kit, a GNR 51' Luggage Milk Brake in GNR livery, with an attempt at a slightly more aged teak colour than the LNER Pigeon Brake further up this thread. As usual, paints are Phoenix Precision (except the Halfords roof), transfers HMRS, a very attractive combination of white, gold and light blue. The Fox bogies in this kit (and in the ECJS Luggage Brake at the top of the thread - the same etch in fact) are quite fiddly and time-consuming to build, but both coaches run incredibly smoothly and reliably over my ancient and poor track-work (unlike some RTR items I could mention) so I didn't begrudge the work. I kept to the included plastic roof on this one: it was actually the first coach I built - these photos are not emerging in chronological order - so I wasn't yet up to experimenting...

 

IMG_3049.jpg.3a103806413583d12477d71fed8255e6.jpg

 

IMG_3051.jpg.c6057f86ba9ecc006797ca3350498b87.jpg

 

IMG_3047.jpg.54d75a79c1bbf28fa44129e763bbacd2.jpg

 

IMG_3048.jpg.4032e2fa97f71f7e815c9c0064b28a7a.jpg

 

:bye:

  • Like 9
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
6 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I suspect Andrew's used Plumber's hemp for the straw - it's surprisingly easy to find (considering plumbers haven't used it in my lifetime).   You can get hold of it from hardware shops or scenic suppliers (sold for thatching buildings).

 

I had to have some floorboards up today to try and stop them squeaking. Our heating was put in about 6 years ago, and look what I found! Before your post this morning I wasn't aware of plumber's hemp - and I've only seen sacking cloth used before on pipes. I did consider pinching some of it but decided I have no idea when I may need it.

 

387508288_plumbershemp.jpg.30c549e31b2c3ed749dff5f165f3f433.jpg

 

 

  • Funny 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from the uncanny resemblance to the devastation I generally find in my house whenever I lift a floorboard ('professionally rewired', anyone?   He may have been a professional at something, but it wasn't electricity), that looks very coarse and multicoloured compared to the stuff I have.   It almost looks like hanging basket liner or carpet underlay. 

 

Predictably I can't now find a photo of anything I've used it on but it was much yellower than that (of course that may be dirty). 

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...