New Ankh Station Planning Exercise

[Hroth]

7 minutes ago, brack said:

The cab is rather modern, and it has quite a fat boiler for pre edwardian times.

 

But you know what illustrators are like, they look through pictures of "olde engines" and choose an outline they fancy. Then they simplify it a bit, enhancing features they like.

 

A Crampton might be more interesting. Indeed this French Crampton of 1852 would have been a natural!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:France_Paris_Champs_Elysees_Locomotive_Crampton_80_01.JPG

 

Defintely one of the phases "Iron Girder" would have passed through!

 

 

[Edwardian]

16 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I was just being fair to newcomers who might pick up the book and wonder where Beyonk was....

 

Probably a Sto Lat express, its definitely a Flyer, a Single with outside cylinders.

 

I have always had at least two concerns with that illustration from Mrs Bradshaws Handbook; Why is the Dwarf skipping, and why is the Gnome pouring lamp oil down the lamp chimney?  No wonder the bloke on the footplate is looking concerned....

 

As for the other platform denizens, they look a fair cross-section of A-M "society".

 

Indeed.  I have a few issues myself, but I find the overall character of the illustrations helpful,  Useful starting blocks for one's own racing imagination, I find, but "use with caution". 

 

16 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Spelling?  Perhaps we should endorse edits as "Note Spelling!" in this locality?

 

 

Of course, yes, and Princess Esmerelda gives us another Pushman coach name! 

 

4 minutes ago, brack said:

The cab is rather modern, and it has quite a fat boiler for pre edwardian times.

 

I quite agree.  

 

Regarding the various illustrations pertaining to the line, as they said in Pirates of the Caribbean, they're more like guidelines. As an Aid to Coherence, I'm trying to pull my visualisation back to a more 1850s aesthetic. Now, that's an entirely subjective decision on my part, and clearly not the only way one could go, but I have (at some tedious length) set out my reasoning and why that works for me. 

 

16 hours ago, JimFin said:

Well worth it and available on DVD as is The Colour of Magic - nice shots of the town in there.

 

I have a parked project based on "Twoshirts" = small passing station down the line on the AM&SPHR. In On16.5, using it as an experimental base for 3d printing in wood filament. Resin loco and printed train, dwarf coach unfinished, 1st class,  Überwald League of Temperance open carriage (bring your own casket), cabbage tanker, luggage wagon and goods van in front of the "Jolly Macerator" public house.

 

Hope to get back to that soon.

 

 

 

Quintessentially Disc, so, really, mission accomplished. Hope to see more of it.

 

Both the buildings and the train tell you that you're "not in Kansas anymore", as it were, and that you have, instead, stumbled onto the Disc.

 

It is also a timely reminder that a too academic/Round World approach to railway equipment will not suit.  Thus, for me, the Round World 1850s aesthetic will inform the design, as a way of helping to gain a coherent 'look', but is a mere starting point, as the Disc tends to jumble and disrupt real world influences upon it!

 

 

[Hroth]

Just another thought - you'll need a number of windowless coaches/Pushmans for the Uberwald traffic, something that would be appreciated by both the Grag and Vampire community!

 

Quote

Princess Esmerelda gives us another Pushman coach name!

 

We're getting some good Pushman names.  Another one for the books would be "Euphemia".

 

"Princess Esmerelda" would have Verence pushing for a connection to the main line...

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Hroth

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Just another thought - you'll need a number of windowless coaches/Pushmans for the Uberwald traffic, something that would be appreciated by both the Grag and Vampire community!

 

 

We're getting some good Pushman names.  Another one for the books would be "Euphemia".

 

"Princess Esmerelda" would have Verence pushing for a connection to the main line...

 

 

I been cogitating again and have decided to a bit of judicious inventing/re-inventing in terms of coaches, trains and services.

 

Taking the mainline hubwards towards the Sto Plains, Ramtops and ultimately Uberwald, we at first find ourselves in New Ankh, the overspill beyond the old city walls, so we are gaining something close to the idea of inner suburbs.  Let's take a LB&SCR analogy; Terrier territory (and, thus, smacking more of the '70s than the '50s).  Next we come to the Sto Plains towns.  These now represent country retreats, where, thanks to the railway, the mercantile and professional classes can buy houses and travel daily to Ankh.  Perhaps that justifies fast trains to nearby towns, in addition to plenty of 'stoppers'; the LB&SC's "City Limited" is the sort of service they might need.

 

The pioneering non-stop (not even stopped by the absence of a rather necessary bridge, IIRC) Ankh to Uberwald run chronicled in Raising Steam will not be the pattern of scheduled services.

 

That journey is over 1,200 miles.  No one locomotive would do the journey non-stop.  Moreover, no one crew would.  I rather like the Round World Victorian practice of each locomotive having its own crew - the norm before double shifts - with the names painted inside the cab. A crew can stop over, of course, but probably not more than one night away; most of the time both the crews and the locomotive want either (i) to do a journey that is there and back in a day, returning to homes/home sheds, or, (ii) a day's journey and back the next day. 

 

Then there is the question of different locomotive types.  Whatever illustrators fondly imagine, while a single is the perfect choice for bowling along the Sto Plains, it is not something for the climbs to come. On the Round World, both the GWR and the LSW ran rather different express types west of Exeter, and I see the Disc's railway exchanging singles for 2-4-0s, two, smaller, pairs of coupled wheels best suiting gradients. By the way, I like the idea of Iron Girder developed into a prototype large wheel 4-4-0, as Hroth predicts (but unique at the point the model is set), which means she will have already put her Crampton phase (another apposite suggestion by Hroth) behind her (so I don't have to attempt a Cramprton!).

 

I have a feeling that different companies might be involved along the route, especially as we cross international borders.  Whether by lease, purchase or running powers on the mainline, as well as by means of new-built extensions and branches, I feel that, as we journey hubward along the mainline, we start to encounter the trains of other, particularly foreign, companies.

 

Finally, there are the traffic needs.  Taking again the 1,200 miles hubward from Ankh to Bonk (and, after the events in Raising Steam, and by the time the model is set, extensions beyond), clearly not everyone wants to travel the full length of the line.  Most services will only use a portion of it, with the heaviest service between Ankh and the towns of the Sto Plains, while other concentrations of traffic would be to, via branches, and between, other of the more major destinations on the mainline.  

 

Relative to overall passenger numbers, not that many people will want to 'go all the way' and these will break down into two.  First, long-range immigrants; notably Uberwald Dwarfs heading for the Big Wahonie.  These, though, hardly need a plush through service.  For the fare they can travel on a series of stoppers.

 

The other class requiring a through service to and from far and exotic places, through difficult and often dangerous country, is rather smaller and more exclusive. Diplomatic traffic, represented foremost by Vetinari, merchants and the leisured rich.  Spies, too, I don't doubt.  In short, a luxury through service to Uberwald frankly has exactly the same ingredients as the Round World's Orient Express (pushing use to the Round World 1880s).     

 

Finally, there is a need for flexibility in coaching stock.  With the need for some specific coaches for different species - e.g. Dwarf and Troll - as well as the 3 classes posited by Moist in Raising Steam (IIRC) the Traffic Department would welcome the flexibility of many short coaches in order to have the best chance of anticipating the accommodation needed on any given service.

 

Thus, I am thinking in terms of 4, perhaps 6, and some 8-wheel (bogie, or, I suppose, radial) AM&SPHR coaches, with different classes and species mainly engaged in running to and from destinations in the Quirm direction up to Aix en Pains, and on the Sto Lat line as far as Big Cabbage.  Some AM&SPHR coaches will doubtless provide through portions in trains running beyond those limits.  We can have foreign through coaches in return.

 

Joe Pushman sees an opening for luxury traffic, for those businessmen's fast trains running within the Ankh-Morpork hinterland.  He sees that this clientele would appreciate more than a bumpy ride in a short coach with a swaying refreshment trolley, however impressive the loos are.  He thinks of a long coach, smooth running on bogies and with a dedicated dining car, to which travellers go for a leisurely meal on their journey.  The AM&SPHR is aghast at the wanton extravagance and the extent of the extra non-revenue erning accommodation required where travellers do not eat in their compartments, but Pushman assures them that the dining will generate its own profits, besides the service will be paid for by a supplement to the usual First Class fare that, due to a combination of comfort and cachet*, a certain class of passenger will be only too happy to pay to arrive fresh at their offices each morning, or to their country villas at the day's end.  Pushman puts his money where his mouth is and builds and fits out his fleet of Pushmans, which he then hires out to a grateful AM&SPHR.

 

The Pushman services are a hit. Joe Pushman is, therefore, aghast to discover that his ideas and his type of coaching stock is taken up by George Nigglemaker, scion of a Quirmian banking house, who, with the support of Quirm's authorities, introduces a sort of long-range version he calls a Tren Dulux that takes luxury travel internationally with the provision of compartments where seats convert to beds, allowing overnight luxury travel. While the idea of a sleeping compartment was not new - it was (a development anticipated early on by Moist - the whole luxury package was, well, packaged superbly by Nigglemaker whose high-placed foreign connections did much to facilitate the ability to run a complete train internationally, with only changes in engines and crews at the most important stopping places required.

 

A Quirm portion - a single coach and baggage car** - will run into New Ankh station, there to be united with a leading baggage car, the Ankh coach and a dining car. The service is due its inaugural run anytime soon.

 

The stage is, thus, set for Murder on the Uberwald Express. Cue Richard Rodney Bennett. 

 

 

 

* Excuse my Quirmian

 

** Nigglemaker - and this one I dedicate to Regularity of this parish - insisted upon referring to the baggage cars as "Foregones", which puzzled Pushman, who, thus, failed to resist seeking an explanation.  He instantly regretted that upon being informed by Nigglemaker that this was because one always concluded a train.    

 

  

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

George Nigglemaker,

 

Good one.

[Skinnylinny]

I have to say, I'm loving this approach to the Discworld, and your story-setting definitely channels Pratchett very well! I especially liked the Foregones. All that remains is to leave this here, I suppose. 

[nick_bastable]

21 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Well, on the basis of that taster, I'm convinced.

 

I find that it is available on DVD, so, from circa 16 June when in is due to arrive, I will be watching it!

 

What a wonderful Spike!

 

Realizing I still has this on PVR my afternoons modelling went south as I watched this  again 

 

Nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon must be wine o'clock now  

 

Nick B

[Caley Jim]

7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The stage is, thus, set for Murder on the Uberwald Express. Cue Richard Rodney Bennett. 

That section of music from c3:10 - 6:30 and the scenes it accompanied must be one of the most atmospheric in any railway related feature film .

 

Jim

[Hroth]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The stage is, thus, set for Murder on the Uberwald Express.

 

Can it be the Authoress who is done to death by one of her fiendish plots?

 

Please?

 

Earlier the track layout of the terminus was being discussed, I held back because it was on the tip of my tongue that you Adopt, Adapt and Extend that hoary old CJ Freezer scheme "Minories" as it has arrival, departure and "suburban" platforms and an uncomplicated track plan.  The Quirm line could be brought in in parallel on the Departure side quite easily with a couple of through platforms and your main station range would go across the terminus lines.

 

What brought this on here was the portrayl of a Minories layout on Annies simulator thread...

 

 

Minories is a workable scheme, it must be since its been 60 years since its conception and its still going strong!

 

 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

That section of music from c3:10 - 6:30 and the scenes it accompanied must be one of the most atmospheric in any railway related feature film .

 

Jim

 

Yep, the waltz.  I actually have that 'movement' on a RRB CD, but I like playing that concert performance on Youtube for the steam effect!  More often than not I just listen to that section. Trouble is, when I hear it now,  whereas I should picture ...

 

 

... I visualise the Uberwald Express pulling out of New Ankh and sailing across cabbage fields!

 

24 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Can it be the Authoress who is done to death by one of her fiendish plots?

 

Please?

 

Well, we know there is going to be a murder, because wherever the famous Quirmian detective M. Poisson goes, someone gets killed!

 

I do like that conceit of the crime novelist as victim.  You can't argue with narrative determinism. 

 

Quote

 

Earlier the track layout of the terminus was being discussed, I held back because it was on the tip of my tongue that you Adopt, Adapt and Extend that hoary old CJ Freezer scheme "Minories" as it has arrival, departure and "suburban" platforms and an uncomplicated track plan.  The Quirm line could be brought in in parallel on the Departure side quite easily with a couple of through platforms and your main station range would go across the terminus lines.

 

What brought this on here was the portrayl of a Minories layout on Annies simulator thread...

 

 

Minories is a workable scheme, it must be since its been 60 years since its conception and its still going strong!

 

 

 

Minories crossed my mind, but I have not considered it in any detail.  That is a good suggestion and I will follow it up.

 

EDIT: Interesting analysis Here

Edited June 7, 2020 by Edwardian

[Hroth]

I also thought of Liverpool Central (High Level) as a possibility, there's a couple of threads on RMweb concerning it, its compact, with a turntable but too "modern" with much complicated pointwork!

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/125932-liverpool-central-station/

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67055-liverpool-central-signal-box/

 

 

[BR60103]

I can't tell now. Is New Ankh the main station for Ankh-Morpork or the first station out? (Should I get out Mrs Bradshaw's Guide?)  

 

[Hroth]

Woke up and couldn't get to sleep, so......

 

Here's my first thoughts on a relatively simple New Ankh station layout. Its in the style of a Clacks Box diagram, so it's a bit blocky!

 

Ok, I did it in MS Paint, seeing as its just past 4:30am, I've not marked up any details on the diagram so I've listed the lines below.

 

 

New Anhk Legend:

 

New Anhk Running Lines (Top to bottom)

 

• Quirm Down (Arrival)
• Quirm Up (Departure)
• Station Pilot Spur
• Platform 1 Main Line Down (Departure)
• Carriage Siding 1
• Carriage Siding 2
• Platform 2 Main Line Up (Arrival)
• Platform 3 Sto-Lat Local/Suburban (Departure)
• Platform 4 Sto-Lat Local/Suburban (Arrival)

 

NACB New Anhk Clacks-Box
QJCB Quirm Junction Clacks-Box

 

Blue Arrow "To Quirm"
Green Arrow "To the Sto-Plains" (Lots of Cabbage...)

 

Grey Box Station Buildings

 

A simple layout with no complex pointwork, minimal facing points and one plain crossover. A Station Pilot would be berthed in a spur to draw out carriages of arriving trains and place them either in the station carriage sidings, or in the departure platform, releasing the train engine.  It might be advantageous to insert a carriage siding between the Local/Suburban lines, so that the Pilot does not have to pull carriages all the way up to the main line carriage sidings and back again!

 

 

 

Clacks Signalling

 

As Edwardian mentions above, Discworld railway practice might be informed by Roundworld practice, but not slavishly follow it.

 

By the time of "Raising Steam" the Clacks had evolved from a simple semaphore arm system to a box system of cells, carrying far more information.  The AM&SPHR has adopted and adapted this system for railway use, to control traffic and warn of danger by taking a simple Clacks "cell", mounted on a lineside post, rather than the whole box array, to minimise the amount of information the locomotive crew have to process.

 

The basic signal might have three square aspects.

• A Yellow panel with a horizontal black bar indicating CAUTION  -
• A Red panel with a horizontal black bar indicating DANGER -
• A Green panel with a diagonal black bar indicating CLEAR /

At the centre of the panel would be a circular lens displaying a Yellow, Red or Green light at night depending on the aspect of the signal.

The signal would be balanced to automatically fall to the DANGER aspect. 

The surface area of the Clacks Signal would probably be roughly the same as a Roundworld semaphore arm.

 

Multiple signals would of course be required to indicate routes at junctions.

 

On second thoughts, three aspect signalling might be pushing things a bit so individual signals would probably have aspects of Yellow/Green and Red/Green, with the signals balanced to fall automatically to the Caution/Danger aspect.

 

The Heffalump In The Room

 

There is no indication in "Raising Steam" to indicate the GAUGE of the AM&SPHR!

 

We assume that it is Stephensonian in nature (Roundworld Standard Gauge), but there is a snarky passage in the book that other gauges are in use, including one based on the trackwidth of a Sto-Plains Cabbage Cart, resulting in the bother of trans-shipment when the line reaches the AM&SPHR.  Perhaps we should take it that Cabbage Carts are rather wide in the beam, and leave it at that...

 

 

There you go. Its nearly 5am, so I'm off to try and get more sleep...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Hroth
Note Spelling! And corrections to minor errors, its amazing what tosh can be written at 4am...

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, BR60103 said:

I can't tell now. Is New Ankh the main station for Ankh-Morpork or the first station out? (Should I get out Mrs Bradshaw's Guide?)  

 

 

This raises some important considerations concerning the siting of the station, which I am still cogitating following reference to both Raising Steam and Mrs Bradshaw, and will return to at greater length. In the meantime: 

 

1. Ankh-Morpork's main station is in New Ankh.  Whether it should be called New Ankh station or Ankh-Morpork station is a point to check and consider.

 

2. Another point to consider is which side of the river the station is to be located.  It starts off on the Ankh bank (as the first terminus is Harry King's compound), and is reached (from the Sto Lat direction) via the new river bridge*. In Mrs Bradshaw, however, the station is evidently on the Morpork bank, because the river is crossed in the (opposite) direction of Quirm.

 

3. One Oliphant in my room is the new bridge.  This is described in Raising Steam as an iron bridge.  We also learn from the novel that, on the Sto Lat/Morpork side, there is something of a gradient up to it.

 

However, we know that Ankh Morpork has shipping docks within its walls, and we are also told that new docks, like new housing, have spread downstream, outside the city walls.  In other words, sea-going sailing ships need to pass up river past the new iron railway bridge. So far as I can tell, Pratchett and his collaborators have given no thought to:

 

(a) How this is possible?  The geology does not suggest a high bluff and gorge, allowing the bridge to span the river above the shipping; it's all pretty flat.  Thus we need either a lifting or swinging bridge. While a Disc version of Tower Bridge might be fun, my preference is for a swing bridge, pivoting centrally and opening to permit up and downstream channels for shipping.  I think in terms of Sutton Bridge**.

 

(b) A road connection.  A road crossing at the point would be useful.  If the station is to be on the Morpork side, I would suggest that a road crossing would be essential. There is evidently a hitherto unmapped road gate at the River Gate on the Ankh side (see note {*} below). I suggest that this would continue to be the best route to the station, via a bridge.  The alternative is a similar gate on the Morpork side, which would involve journeys to and from the station going through The Shades (!), or a much longer journey via a gate further round the walls.  Thus, on my Sutton Bridge type swing bridge, I posit a road side and a rail side to the deck (the Quirm running lines might go down to a single track for the bridge, creating operational interest via a bottle-neck). 

   

* Note that in Raising Steam, Vetinari travels to Harry King's compound via coach via the River Gate (which is a physical impossibility as all prior maps and illustrations show that the River Gate spans the river with no ancillary gateway for a road, on either side of the Ankh). We must assume an additional road gateway adjacent to the River Gate.  Later we can infer that Sir Harry's compound is on the Ankh side, because the Sto Lat line crosses the new bridge, hence also Vetinari's journey must be on the Ankh bank, and hence also a road gate beside the River Gate must also be on the Ankh side.    

 

** This will require an engine house on one bank to power the bridge's 'High-Drawl-Leaks'.                          

 

9 hours ago, Hroth said:

I also thought of Liverpool Central (High Level) as a possibility, there's a couple of threads on RMweb concerning it, its compact, with a turntable but too "modern" with much complicated pointwork!

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/125932-liverpool-central-station/

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67055-liverpool-central-signal-box/

 

 

 

That is a great example.

 

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

Woke up and couldn't get to sleep, so......

 

Here's my first thoughts on a relatively simple New Ankh station layout. Its in the style of a Clacks Box diagram, so it's a bit blocky!

 

Ok, I did it in MS Paint, seeing as its just past 4:30am, I've not marked up any details on the diagram so I've listed the lines below.

 

 

New Anhk Legend:

 

New Anhk Running Lines (Top to bottom)

 

• Quirm Down (Arrival)
• Quirm Up (Departure)
• Station Pilot Spur
• Platform 1 Main Line Down (Departure)
• Carriage Siding 1
• Carriage Siding 2
• Platform 2 Main Line Up (Arrival)
• Platform 3 Suburban (Departure)
• Platform 4 Suburban (Arrival)

 

NACB New Anhk Clacks-Box
QJCB Quirm Junction Clacks-Box

 

Blue Arrow "To Quirm"
Green Arrow "To the Sto-Plains" (Lots of Cabbage...)

 

Grey Box Station Buildings

 

A simple layout with no complex pointwork, minimal facing points and one plain crossover. A Station Pilot would be berthed in a spur to draw out carriages of arriving trains and place them either in the station carriage sidings, or in the departure platform, releasing the train engine.

 

This is brilliant, both the track plan and the clacks signalling.

 

Thank you.

 

It will require Close Study.

 

My first impression is that this plan looks both apposite and workable.

 

Quote

Clacks Signalling

 

As Edwardian mentions above, Discworld railway practice might be informed by Roundworld practice, but not slavishly follow it.

 

By the time of "Raising Steam" the Clacks had evolved from a simple semaphore arm system to a box system of cells, carrying far more information.  The AM&SPHR has adopted and adapted this system for railway use, to control traffic and warn of danger by taking a simple Clacks "cell", mounted on a lineside post, rather than the whole box array, to minimise the amount of information the locomotive crew have to process.

 

The basic signal might have three square aspects.

• A Yellow panel with a horizontal black bar indicating CAUTION  -
• A Red panel with a horizontal black bar indicating DANGER -
• A Green panel with a diagonal black bar indicating CLEAR /

At the centre of the panel would be a circular lens displaying a Yellow, Red or Green light at night depending on the aspect of the signal.

The signal would be balanced to automatically fall to the DANGER aspect. 

The surface area of the Clacks Signal would probably be roughly the same as a Roundworld semaphore arm.

 

Multiple signals would of course be required to indicate routes at junctions.

 

On second thoughts, three aspect signalling might be pushing things a bit so individual signals would probably have aspects of Red/Yellow and Red/Green.

 

I would love more detail fleshed out on the clacks idea, which also looks to be a winner to me. 

 

Quote

The Heffalump In The Room

 

There is no indication in "Raising Steam" to indicate the GAUGE of the AM&SPHR!

 

We assume that it is Stephensonian in nature (Roundworld Standard Gauge), but there is a snarky passage in the book that other gauges are in use, including one based on the trackwidth of a Sto-Plains Cabbage Cart, resulting in the bother of trans-shipment when the line reaches the AM&SPHR.  Perhaps we should take it that Cabbage Carts are rather wide in the beam, and leave it at that...

 

 

There you go. Its nearly 5am, so I'm off to try and get more sleep...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I think we are the Disc World's equivalent of Stephenson's gauge.  However, I am unclear as to units of measure on the Disc, but have a profound certainty that the Disc Standard Gauge (DSG), as opposed to GNG (Goblin Narrow Gauge) scales in 4mil to exactly 16.5mm, allowing a truly accurate finescale representation to be produced, indeed, I look forward to an approach form the MRJ, begging to feature the layout in due course.     

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Edwardian
Note Spelling

[Hroth]

46 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Yes, I think we are the Disc World's equivalent of Stephenson's gauge.  However, I am unclear as to units of measure on the Disc, but have a profound certainty that the Disc Standard Gauge (DSG), as opposed to GNG (Goblin Narrow Gauge) scales in 4mil to exactly 16.5mm, allowing a truly accurate finescale representation to be produced, indeed, I look forward to an approach form the MRJ, begging to feature the layout in due course.     

 

 

Saynomore!

 

Sorry!

 

As you say, the topography of the city and its environs need looking more closely at.  It might be that under Vetinari's "Undertaking" that the Shades, or large parts of it, would have been swept away like Somerstown in London, to be replaced, in part by an  Anhk-Morpork Central station.

 

Given that the river is often described as a "semi-fluid sludge", it may be that with the railway providing enhanced transport possibilities, the former Shades might become a goods-handling hub, with shipping moved down the river to Anhkmouth, where the water would be rather more "watery", served, of course, by the AM&SPHR!

 

Then you'd also have the Port of Anhkmouth Dock Railway!!!

 

I'll have a thought about a Clacks inspired signal.  Anyone else feel free to join in!

 

Its a pity that Terry is no longer here to clear up these points and that "Raising Steam" is a little confused where the fine details are concerned.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Hroth
Apology for attack of risibility, and some thorts....

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

 

Saynomore!

 

Sorry!

 

As you say, the topography of the city and its environs need looking more closely at.  It might be that under Vetinari's "Undertaking" that the Shades, or large parts of it, would have been swept away like Somerstown in London, to be replaced, in part by an  Anhk-Morpork Central station.

 

Given that the river is often described as a "semi-fluid sludge", it may be that with the railway providing enhanced transport possibilities, the former Shades might become a goods-handling hub, with shipping moved down the river to Anhkmouth, where the water would be rather more "watery", served, of course, by the AM&SPHR!

 

Then you'd also have the Port of Anhkmouth Dock Railway!!!

 

I'll have a thought about a Clacks inspired signal.  Anyone else feel free to join in!

 

Its a pity that Terry is no longer here to clear up these points and that "Raising Steam" is a little confused where the fine details are concerned.

 

 

 

Some very interesting thoughts there.

 

It makes me consider that there is a need for some: 

 

- Extrapolation (to what the railway would soon become under what passes for normal conditions on the Disc);

 

- Interpretation (to understand what is being given to us in the canon texts and to attempt to reconcile inconsistencies, both real and apparent); and,

 

- Invention (to fill in the gaps and take the story forward).

 

It must be said, then, that all you say about the siting of a later, bigger, more central terminus is quite fair and probable (don't forget the spare Dragon's landing Redevelopment Site as a potential station site near Morpork's Hubwards gates).

 

That said, I'm not sure I want to look too far forward and see too many changes to the topography of the city.  In short, I think, for me, it still has recognisably to be the same city it was when Terry Pratchett's pen, or keyboard, stopped. In contrast, inventing new rolling stock and services seems, to me, relatively low-impact. 

 

I have enough of a problem with the fact that New Ankh streets are most-likely some cod-Georgian jerry-built brick terraces, rather than the half timbered York Shambles look that is taken to typify the old city inside its walls and that informs most people's image of the city.  I wonder then, how to work a sense of that in?  One way, of course is, as you say, to bring the line into the heart of the city. I feel, though, that this might be an extrapolation too far (unless you want a second, Minories terminus!), we know there was/is a terminus in New Ankh; putting one somewhere else immediately gives us a lot of explaining to do and takes us a big step away from Story's End (which is our beginning). 

[Hroth]

My musings about redeveloping the Shades were just comparing a similar situation in Roundworld.  We really didn't get much information about The Undertaking, but Vetinari must have been giving some thought to "taming" the City a bit, now that he had an (slightly?) more efficient Watch to hand.

 

As you say, extrapolation must be cautious, otherwise we'll end up with an unrecognisably redeveloped Anhk-Morpork, in the manner of many such UK disasters of the 60s and 70s.  Something to be actively deplored!

 

I do think the Anhkmouth Docks would be a sensible concept, pencilled in at the moment rather than actively pursued. It would make the bridging of the river at Anhk easier, with clearance for funnels rather than masts.  Its what Bristol did, after all!

 

[Caley Jim]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 It might be that under Vetinari's "Undertaking" that the Shades, or large parts of it, would have been swept away like Somerstown in London, to be replaced, in part by an  Anhk-Morpork Central station.

As was Grahamstown in Glasgow for the building of Central Station. 

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

35 minutes ago, Hroth said:

My musings about redeveloping the Shades were just comparing a similar situation in Roundworld.  We really didn't get much information about The Undertaking, but Vetinari must have been giving some thought to "taming" the City a bit, now that he had an (slightly?) more efficient Watch to hand.

 

As you say, extrapolation must be cautious, otherwise we'll end up with an unrecognisably redeveloped Anhk-Morpork, in the manner of many such UK disasters of the 60s and 70s.  Something to be actively deplored!

 

I do think the Anhkmouth Docks would be a sensible concept, pencilled in at the moment rather than actively pursued. It would make the bridging of the river at Anhk easier, with clearance for funnels rather than masts.  Its what Bristol did, after all!

 

 

Yes, the docks railway, I think, makes perfect sense and would be a good fit.  We are told something of the development pre-railway of new. no doubt more commodious, docks downstream of the city's river gate as part of the New Ankh spread.  I assume that (i) the Ankh remains navigable with the old city docks still in commission, and (ii) these New Ankh docks may be found either side of the new iron railway bridge.  I think it entirely reasonable to posit a dock railway linking all these.  

 

A dock railway allows better communication between wharves and the AM&SPHR, but would also greatly facilitate the development of docks Circle Seaward, hence Ankhmouth Docks. 

 

EDIT: I'll add that your Ankh Central/Shades redevelopment is a legitimate extrapolation, and probably what would have/will happen, but, as you say, without caution we may end up with an unrecognisably redeveloped Anhk-Morpork.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Edwardian

[Hroth]

Ok, heres a proposal for the Clacks Signals

 

AM&SPHR Railway Clacks Semaphore Proposal

Aspects:

 

     Danger                                    Caution                                   Clear

The coloured dot in the centre band is a coloured lens for night-time observation, illuminated by an internal lamp.

The Semaphore cell is enclosed in a box mounted on a post to bring it to the eyelevel of the engine crew.  

 

 

The annotations are as follows.

 

Exterior.

• A: Housing with lamp ventilator on roof. Decoration as appropriate.
• B: Aspect aperture. May be glazed for weather protection.
• C: Signal post

 

Interior Details (Basic)

• D: Counterweight to bias signal to the Danger Aspect
• E: Curved Aspect Plate
• F: Pivot Point
• G: Oil Lamp, 18 hour duration
• H: Danger Aspect
• I: Caution/Clear Aspect

 

Operating mechanisms are not illustrated at present.

 

 

I'll come clean, the Clear indication is a nod to lower quadrant signalling.... 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Hroth

[Schooner]

Brilliant!

 

Ps. Downstream docks with railway and barges carrying traffic to the city centre is well within the tone of the cannon, and (ir)rationality. Fantasy-Tilbury...

Edited June 8, 2020 by Schooner
Dock chat

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

Ok, heres a proposal for the Clacks Signals

 

AM&SPHR Railway Clacks Semaphore Proposal

Aspects:

 

     Danger                                    Caution                                   Clear

The coloured dot in the centre band is a coloured lens for night-time observation, illuminated by an internal lamp.

The Semaphore cell is enclosed in a box mounted on a post to bring it to the eyelevel of the engine crew.  

 

 

The annotations are as follows.

 

Exterior.

• A: Housing with lamp ventilator on roof. Decoration as appropriate.
• B: Aspect aperture. May be glazed for weather protection.
• C: Signal post

 

Interior Details (Basic)

• D: Counterweight to bias signal to the Danger Aspect
• E: Curved Aspect Plate
• F: Pivot Point
• G: Oil Lamp, 18 hour duration
• H: Danger Aspect
• I: Caution/Clear Aspect

 

Operating mechanisms are not illustrated at present.

 

 

I'll come clean, the Clear indication is a nod to lower quadrant signalling.... 

 

 

That looks brilliant, and very appropriate.  However, as a thicky arts student with no aptitude for engineering, I have to confess that I do not understand how it works, particularly the right-hand diagram.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Too much roundworld with the signalling. Don't forget that the Disc's rotation constantly generates thaumaturgical force. When the Octarine light is showing as many trains as required can run in opposing directions on single track with no ill consequences. The Professor of inadvisably applied magic at UU may be approached - cautiously - for advice. The entire operation can probably be managed by a Glooper, if the reported experience at the Bank is in any way reliable.

 

The passenger rolling stock is an aspect not covered in detail by Sir Terry. Huge all steel Gondolas for the Golems and  Trolls? They are weatherproof, and the latter eat rock, so each one is also potentially a buffet car for Trolls. Dwarf coaches can be at least two deckers, (offering an attractive saving in Gold for the fare) with external axe racks to prevent serious fighting in transit, and a few windowless Grag compartments. A tactful word with the differently vital community might be advisable to provide appropriate facilities for their comfort; since Mr Slant is already involved he is probably a useful point of contact . 

 

And I expect the Librarian would appreciate special Banana vans for his personal use, attached to all trains calling at locations with libraries large enough to form portals into L-Space.

[Hroth]

59 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Don't forget that the Disc's rotation constantly generates thaumaturgical force. When the Octarine light is showing as many trains as required can run in opposing directions on single track with no ill consequences. The Professor of inadvisably applied magic at UU may be approached - cautiously - for advice. The entire operation can probably be managed by a Glooper, if the reported experience at the Bank is in any way reliable.

 

Sir.

 

Would YOU want to entrust your operations to a Glooper???

 

Anyhow,  inadvisably applied quantum tunnelling is only really effective when Hex is in close control, such as when allowing the Archchancellor to play snooker using Baize-Space. On the real Disc, matters are more problematic. The only known use of this technique on the Discworld railways sadly came to grief when a small single line system in Quirm tried to adopt a divisible staff system without really thinking things through. It was reported that there was one fatality, a case of scalding by hot cheese fondeau and a great disturbance of foie gras.  They didn't remember Abermule....

 

Also to be taken into consideration is the Patricians strict command that there are to be no magical entanglements in the operation of the AM&SPHR. For what thats worth.

 

Where rolling stock is concerned, a number of the matters you have raised are already under active consideration, the provision of high-security Banana Vans is a question of significant import.

 

With thanks for your communication.

 

Suggestions Dept AM&SPHR

 

pp Squiggle

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Hroth
added EMPHASIS!

[Compound2632]

Surely there's an imp in every signal, tasked with giving the correct indication? Would work well for time interval signalling - or has Vetinari insisted on Lock & Block? That seems a little too interventionist for his style of government.