New Ankh Station Planning Exercise

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

However, as a thicky arts student with no aptitude for engineering, I have to confess that I do not understand how it works, particularly the right-hand diagram.

 

The box faces the oncoming train, through the aperture the Driver and Stoker will be able to see the aspect of the signal as they approach day or night. INSIDE the box is a convex metal plate, the upper half of arc is painted with the DANGER aspect, the lower half with the CAUTION or CLEAR aspect.  The plate rotates around the pivot to allow the appropriate aspect to be displayed in the box aperture. The counterweight will hold the signal to DANGER if the operating wire is damaged, eg by Evil Delvers. The lamp illuminates the back of the plate at night, shining through the coloured lens to enable the aspect to be determined in the dark.

 

As noted, the operating linkages have not been included, to reduce the degree of confusion....

 

Perhaps we could employ trolls as lineside bobbies?

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Hroth
Stuff

[Hroth]

6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Surely there's an imp in every signal, tasked with giving the correct indication? Would work well for time interval signalling - or has Vetinari insisted on Lock & Block? That seems a little too interventionist for his style of government.

 

I feel that Vetinari, as the wise and sensible ruler that he is, would take Lock and Block on board like a Duc to water.  The Imps are actually a splendid idea, a locomotive fitted with an Imp powered device, similar to Commander Vimes Personal Organiser would make the introduction of GWR style ATC a matter of great simplicity.

 

A splendid application of Inadvisably Applied Magic!

 

Now its time for a cup of tea... 

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 Dwarf coaches can be at least two deckers,

 

I was thinking High Class (the cheap seats on top), and the more plush Low Class underneath. 

 

Not sure the deep down grags would travel on the railway or need or want to be accommodated; there's always a luggage compartment for the odd fundamentalist. 

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Here’s a picture, giving some idea of what the bookshelf essay will look like in English mode.

 

 

AM&SPHR short coaches?

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

I’ve been reading about the delightful little terminus that used to exist at Bishop’s Waltham, and have long been an Emmett fan, so maybe it can be ‘Friar’s Ambling’ in this mode.

 

Of course, this is all no more than a reprise of a set of ideas that we kicked around possibly two years ago now; it’s Northroader’s plus ca change, plus ces’t la meme chose concept that’s caused this.

 

PS: Reading about Bishop’s Waltham caused me to read about the branch junction at Botley, which revealed that those superb strawberry train photos that we looked at in the CA thread were taken there. The branch seems to have been very strawberry oriented.

 

[Edwardian]

Coaches ....

 

Here are some ideas presented in a set of stamps.  As an aside, I note that Iron Girder has made it to an Atlantic!

 

 

While not quite literate, the first two coaches fit very much with my idea of 1850s-style coaches. They compare sensibly with the examples I posted earlier.  I still see the majority of the coaches conforming to these types.

 

 

That is the easy part.

 

Also, fairly simple extrapolations would be 2-deck adaptions for dwarfs, which do not seem too difficult, neither do troll coaches. 

 

 

The Troll coaches are here pictured, and said by Mrs Bradshaw and in IIRC Raising Steam to be open, but I quite like a version with open sides and a roof; I can see the NSWGR Joseph Wright Third as a troll coach!

 

 

Thought to be an 1840s SER coach (also thought to be by Joseph Wright), this is, in fact, a AMP&SPHR Troll Composite.  The outer coupe compartments are "Diamond Class".

 

 

Demand for Troll and Dwarf coaches, and, indeed, Black Ribboner coaches, may well be confined to connecting services with the Altiplano Express (see below). Mrs Bradshaw IIRC only mentions Dwarf and Troll coaches in connection with the Altiplano Express, but, of course, plenty of Dwarf s and Trolls travel to Ankh-Morpork, so it makes sense to have provision for them on Sto Lat services that connect to the Altiplano Exprees to Uberwald and other further away places where these other species are generally found. 

 

Fast/Semi-Fast/Express Stock

 

It is the coaches for longer journeys that, I think, require more adaptation, saddled as we are with the idea of corridors and gangways.

 

Here I will say that I am not yet persuaded that I want modern enclosed gangways.  My preference is to adopt open gangway plates, with side rails, and to use these with both open and closed end-vestibule coaches.

 

 

 

I see 3 broad categories:

 

(1)  AM&SPHR coaches.  Again, these can be 4-wheelers, though, as I said earlier, some 6 of 8-wheelers are certainly possible.

 

I was inspired by these coaches of Nearholmer. 

 

 

In my ignorance I take them to be Kraus Fandor coaches of the pre-War period (but, then, what would I know?!?):

 

 

There are variations, but the basic ingredient is the combination of enclosed end vestibules with end doors.

 

 

It struck me that our idea of an archetypal railway train could, in some measure, derive from a tinplate toy, and thus, through inter-dimensional leakage, could inform train design on the Disc.  There is a nice symmetry given that in Raising Steam quite some detail is given of the toy trains made by the Cunning Artificers.

 

I think we could have all classes and brake, loo and luggage compartments.  With a nod to that other archetypal coach, the BR Mark I, I think one could have both open and side corridor/compartment seating.  The key to this flexibility if the use of end vestibules over individual compartment doors. 

 

(2)  Pushman coaches

 

These would be shorty bogie coaches, and I think, like early Pullmans, they should be clerestories. I have gratefully adopted the suggestion to base them upon Roundhouse HO Overton coaches, giving them open end vestibules or verandahs.

 

 

 

(3) Compagneee Quirmian des Wagon Lits sleeping cars/restaurant car.'foregones' 

 

That there is a need for a fast international luxury through train from Ankh-Morpork, indeed, with through coaches connecting Quirm and Bonk with out a change, was a case successfully made by George Nigglemaker.  The, rather odd, way that the Altiplano Express (Sto Lat - Zemphis (including sleeping compartments)) only runs from Sto Lat Junction and seems not to go on to Uberwald, leaves a gap for me, via George, to fill.

 

Returning to the clerestory bogie shorty with a nod to the toy heritage, Nearholmer's tinplate CIWL is the perfect inspiration.

 

 

The toy represents the varnished teak of the CIWL matchboard clerestories, before the adoption of the famous blue livery on the advent of the steel-bodied coaches in the 1920s.

 

 

As I mentioned on CA, under the Rule of Archetypes, I would paint them the deep blue that was adopted for the steel-bodied coaches introduced in the 1920s, which livery we more readily associate with the CIWL brand. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Edwardian
Further picture

[Compound2632]

48 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

As an aside, I note that Iron Girder has made it to an Atlantic!

 

Wide firebox - preferable for low-grade fuel e.g. cabbage.

 

Which prompts the question: where does the coal come from?

 

On a more general note, it has to be borne in mind that by the time he wrote Raising Steam, Pratchett was needing a lot of help with continuity.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Compound2632

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Which prompts the question: where does the coal come from?

Vast heaps of this gritty black stuff in the waste tips from the many treacle mining operations? And if not, I am sure the dwarves know where it can be found, and should be persuadable to abandon mining for Gold, if sufficient Gold is provided to encourage them to target a different mineral.

 

(There are no steel works either, but you never know, perhaps the alchemists have come up with something useful between explosions while in pursuit of elemental transmutation.)

 

Since he is financially deeply engaged, I am sure there ought to be a prestigious express titled 'King of the Golden River'.

 

Small details regarding the CQIWL operation. The restaurant car menus should be prominently headed 'Cuisine Avec'. It would be a terrible thing should Nanny Ogg ever board one of their services and not have her prejudices confirmed. She will be travelling with no question of a fare to pay of course, because as Granny Weatherwax frequently reminds us, RESPECT is what matters. The Banananana Dakri's will be on the house too. (For those uninformed, Nanny knows how to start spelling banana, it's knowing when to stop that is the problem.

[Edwardian]

A prototype for everything, 

 

"Evenin' All!"

 

 

EDIT:

 

"Small details regarding the CQIWL operation. The restaurant car menus should be prominently headed 'Cuisine Avec'. It would be a terrible thing should Nanny Ogg ever board one of their services and not have her prejudices confirmed. She will be travelling with no question of a fare to pay of course, because as Granny Weatherwax frequently reminds us, RESPECT is what matters. The Banananana Dakri's will be on the house too. (For those uninformed, Nanny knows how to start spelling banana, it's knowing when to stop that is the problem."

 

For Nanny Ogg, perhaps some unconsidered trifles for her to snap up!

Edited June 10, 2020 by Edwardian

[HonestTom]

16 hours ago, Edwardian said:

A prototype for everything, 

 

"Evenin' All!"

 

 

EDIT:

 

"Small details regarding the CQIWL operation. The restaurant car menus should be prominently headed 'Cuisine Avec'. It would be a terrible thing should Nanny Ogg ever board one of their services and not have her prejudices confirmed. She will be travelling with no question of a fare to pay of course, because as Granny Weatherwax frequently reminds us, RESPECT is what matters. The Banananana Dakri's will be on the house too. (For those uninformed, Nanny knows how to start spelling banana, it's knowing when to stop that is the problem."

 

For Nanny Ogg, perhaps some unconsidered trifles for her to snap up!

Colon P R R? I wouldn't put that guy in charge of a railway.

Edited June 11, 2020 by HonestTom

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, HonestTom said:

Colon P R R? I wouldn't put that guy in charge of a railway.

 

I'd have thought he was exactly the sort of person one would want - knows how to do things by the book with the least effort and knows when to bend the rules just that little bit to keep things moving.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, HonestTom said:

Colon P R R? I wouldn't put that guy in charge of a railway.

 

He'd be ably abetted by Nobby Nobbs, who would be constantly inspecting the goods yards to ensure that they were all tidy....

 

The loco is essentially Colonesque, bulky and embellished!

 

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

He'd be ably abetted by Nobby Nobbs, who would be constantly inspecting the goods yards to ensure that they were all tidy....

 

The loco is essentially Colonesque, bulky and embellished!

 

 

Goods that he'd found abandoned littered between the tracks and that he was only in the act of returning to their rightful owners, honest Mr Vimes.

[Edwardian]

Here's where I've got to.

 

 

The original temporary terminus was in Sir Harry King's compound on the Ankh bank.  The line towards Sto Lat crossed the Ankh via a new iron bridge. This bridge is a road and rail bridge, with the road on the lower deck, like Newcastle's High Level Bridge, save that it is not at a high level and is, therefore, a centre-pivoting swing bridge operated by High-Drawl-Leaks in order to allow shipping to pass to docks upstream.  These are now both above and below the River Gate.

 

The permanent station is on the Morpork bank, consistent with Mrs Bradshaw's account.  It is reached on the Morpork side by a new road leading from Shambling Gate and, on the Ankh side, via the new bridge, by a road already established from the road portal at the River Gate (marked by gate towers on the pre-railway may, but not showing the portal - it was, however, the gate used by Vetinari when taking his carriage to visit Sir Harry King's compound at the start of Raising Steam, so we know it's there). 

 

This will yield a layout for the railway something like this:

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Edwardian
note spelling!

[Hroth]

Hmmmmm.

 

Interesting, Mr Bond.....

 

I don't know where my street map of AM is at present.  I'll have to institute a thorough search and have a thunk.

 

What has come to mind is, why did the fishmonger transport his stock via the hot road from Quirm to AM?  Why not send it round, well iced, by coast like whazzhename, Verity Pushpram, that Nobby used to fancy, apparently did?

 

[BR60103]

Where is Harry King's compound?  I can't find it on my quite old street map. And where would the New Ankh station go?  I'm not quite ready to re-read all my books again.

 

[Hroth]

The mappe is quite old, Harry King hadn't moved his city empire fully downstream until the events recounted Snuff, though it was mentioned in earlier books that he had giant compost heaps down there, known as The Cloud Factories.

 

As Edwardian is attempting to determine, a temporary station was positioned near the King compound, with the development of the New Ankh Station in a more suitable position.  We'll have to wait and see, extra input is mostly helpful!

 

[Edwardian]

6 hours ago, BR60103 said:

Where is Harry King's compound?  I can't find it on my quite old street map. And where would the New Ankh station go?  I'm not quite ready to re-read all my books again.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

The mappe is quite old, Harry King hadn't moved his city empire fully downstream until the events recounted Snuff, though it was mentioned in earlier books that he had giant compost heaps down there, known as The Cloud Factories.

 

As Edwardian is attempting to determine, a temporary station was positioned near the King compound, with the development of the New Ankh Station in a more suitable position.  We'll have to wait and see, extra input is mostly helpful!

 

 

Based on my reasoned (!) interpretation and reconciliation of Raising Steam and Mrs Bradshaw:

 

- Harry King's compound was on the Ankh side of the river (that's the left bank (!) when viewing the map).  We know this because it formed the first terminus and the first, Sto Lat line, had to cross the Ankh by a new iron bridge in order to take that direction.

 

- It follows that a road and road portal by the River Gate, used by Vetinari to travel to King's compound, must also be on the Ankh side.  

 

- Now, Harry is sensitive about the origins of his fortune and we know that much of the compound was given over to heavy engineering associated with railway construction, IIRC big steam hammers are suggested in RS. I do not suppose we want a terminus next to Harry's traditional activities, and, further, we might suppose that there was more room for a permanent terminus on the Morpork bank, as this would minimise the amount of Sir Harry's compound that would be lost to him.

 

- It seems to me that the terminus in RS was a fairly temporary affair in the compound, so permanent facilities would be needed.  Whatever the reason for the move across the river, Mrs Bradshaw is clear that the new bridge is crossed on the journey to Quirm.  So, you either disregard her, and build your terminus on the compound site, or you move it across the river.  My chosen interpretation is a way that can leave both books 'correct', which is why, after much umming and ahhring, I have proposed the solution that I have, 

 

- So where does that leave Harry King's compound?  Well, naturally on the model.  I would place it on the Ankh side, immediately down river from the railway line, across from the terminus roads and station buildings on the opposite bank.  I would assume that this part of the compound remains devoted to heavy engineering, with the 'traditional' side of the business on the further side of the compound from the railway, and, thus 'out of shot' so far as the layout is concerned, though a 'night cart' making its way along the road to the front edge of the layout would be a nice touch. 

 

 

 

EDIT: The possible alternative is that the railway line to Quirm dissects the compound, with, perhaps, engineering upstream and 'waste recycling' downstream.

 

The line should be slightly raised to cross the bridge and thee is mention of a gradient in RS, so the two sides of the site could be connected via bridges under the line.

 

Another possibility is that the compound is further from the river bank, the other side of the road.  

 

Further, replaced stations often lived on as goods stations, a possibility here.

 

In any case, I suggest that King's compound would retain a connection with the railway. 

 

King's would also be a good set of buildings to act as a view blocker to the LHS of the layout.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

Manure wagons. 

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Based on my reasoned (!) interpretation and reconciliation of Raising Steam and Mrs Bradshaw:

That's a good appreciation of the concerns on the Disk...

 

...could we also have a little refresher on Roundworld constraints, or other than a 15' L is it carte blanche?

 

Slow afternoon at work

[Edwardian]

28 minutes ago, Schooner said:

That's a good appreciation of the concerns on the Disk...

 

...could we also have a little refresher on Roundworld constraints, or other than a 15' L is it carte blanche?

 

Slow afternoon at work

 

It has to look archetypally Victorian.

 

Perhaps mid-1850s to mid 1860s British outline would give more flexibility as a basis, but there are US, European and 1870s-1880s influences, features or practices creeping in.

[Schooner]

Gah, wasn't clear. Sorry!

 

What are the constraints of the place where the model would be built? Windows, doors, corners etc - all that good stuff that @Harlequin (who might find this an interesting adjunct to the Minories discourse) asks for to work out a layout plan

 

 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Manure wagons. 

Definite outward traffic from HKs compost heaps to the farms of the Sto Plains, the honey wagons would still make their night-time perambulations through the streets of A-M, arriving at The Compound (snigger) in the early hours of the morning.

 

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Further, replaced stations often lived on as goods stations, a possibility here.

 

Handy for HK!

 

[Edwardian]

44 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 

What are the constraints of the place where the model would be built? Windows, doors, corners etc - all that good stuff that @Harlequin (who might find this an interesting adjunct to the Minories discourse) asks for to work out a layout plan

 

 

 

It's being designed in a vacuum, so assume shed or garage.  Say 15-20' x 10-12'.

 

Following on from my previous post, I'm thinking along these sorts of lines:

 

 

[Schooner]

Ideal

[webbcompound]

I see the double track goes down to single to cross the bridge. Perhaps (because nothing is ever that straightforward on Discworld), the tracks should be interlaced thus allowing for the maintenance and construction costs of double track, whilst benefitting from the traffic restricting effect of single track.