KR Models announce the Bulleid Leader

[Iltman]

I think I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I didn’t order one

[truffy]

2 hours ago, mvrnut said:

On the subject of fictional liveries for Leader class, what if nationalization had not occurred until much later. Therefore one could assume that they would have have received Bulleid's malachite green as the Merchant Navy were painted. I think it would look awesome in malachite with SR sunshine lettering.

Please, no. Malachite is never right.

[melmoth]

3 hours ago, mvrnut said:

On the subject of fictional liveries for Leader class, what if nationalization had not occurred until much later. Therefore one could assume that they would have have received Bulleid's malachite green as the Merchant Navy were painted. I think it would look awesome in malachite with SR sunshine lettering.

Cheers,

Chris

 

60s Hydraulic Maroon, with "Western Reject" nameplates

[maico]

At the bottom of the page there are some Leader photos with crew taken in 1950 by Russell Coffin

http://svsfilm.com/nineelms/coffin.htm

[Mr chapman]

I'll take one! I hoping an N version may come later down the line but for now 00 will do. Got to keep KR in the game if I want something later...

[WisTramwayMan]

I would love a Leader - but am cautious of going via the crowd-funding route.

 

For two reasons - the sustainability of the company involved (although I hasten to add that, as far as I know, there is no reason why this company should follow the fate of a previous well-known one), the second I would actually like to see deliveries to customers and subsequent reviews of GT3 before people are forced to part for their money on staged payments for a subsequent model.

 

I think I've seen a post somewhere by KRM that the pay-by-instalment route is popular as it allows people to spread payments out. My answer would be no, certainly not with me, or anyone else I know, not in advance of even engineering prototypes of the model they're paying towards, and no previous delivered models to point to as the proof of their ability.

 

Nothing's better than actually seeing a model, and reading the reviews, if not of that model, then of a manufacturer's previous efforts, before financially committing. Even established manufacturers can produce a dog.

 

I think what I'd ideally like to see is the deadline to commit for The Fell extended until after the first production models of GT3 are received by customers, and various reviews no doubt left, either on RM Web or, as an example, YouTube. If GT3 then arrives and gets the thumbs-up from all concerned, then certainly, from a personal viewpoint, a Fell and a Leader it is.

 

If this venture is as well funded as it is supposed to be, and the proprietor has confidence in what he's offering, then why not produce to the amount of pre-orders received, plus, for example, 250 ? If necessary at a higher price (+10/20% ?) for the stock models. Thus the crowd funders will, all being well, be happy, and receive a discount for having committed at the outset. The manufacturer will have a showcase for his abilities. And those sceptical or cautious can then wait in the knowledge that there will at least be SOME (hopefully) available once the first production models have been tested and reviewed.

 

And at that point, they will hopefully have a track record that they are proud to point to.

[Pre Grouping fan]

No ones being asked for money for the 2 new models yet and I'm sure it will take a few months to get the required number of expressions of interest to make the model viable. Which by then the GT3 should have been delivered and the opinions of customers known. 

[Spam Can Man]

On 06/07/2020 at 12:12, KR Models said:

I said you aren't the first to suggest it, I don't want to be misunderstood here.

 

However, I do take every suggestion and recommendation seriously, so if anyone else has any locos they would like to see, email me personally at research@krmodels.co.uk

 

- Michael

Sorry Michael. I didn't mean to imply that you were going to model Bulleid/Rayworth locomotive 2003 and I think my comment may have been taken out of context and I apologise for any upset it may have caused you and hope you accept my apologies. I am looking forward to receiving my GT3 and appreciate the problems compounded by Covid-19. However, if you do consider doing 2003 or even 2001 or 2002 please put my name down for it.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

[WisTramwayMan]

On 08/07/2020 at 18:47, Pre Grouping fan said:

No ones being asked for money for the 2 new models yet and I'm sure it will take a few months to get the required number of expressions of interest to make the model viable. Which by then the GT3 should have been delivered and the opinions of customers known. 

It's not just the Leader I'm looking at, it's the Fell as well, where KR are asking you to sign up to the payment plans at the moment. I confess that, without checking, I'm not sure of the deadline though.

 

Re the livery debate, what KR could do with the liveries for the Leader (Grey/Black/Green) are not dissimilar to what Hornby are doing with the forthcoming model of 10000, with versions in Battleship Grey (which it actually wore), Battleship Grey with "British Enterprise" nameplates (which although cast, were never carried in public) and LNER Apple Green (which I believe was only applied for a publicity shoot). Personally, I see no issue with the alternatives being offered, and indeed I've got 2 different ones on pre-order. Likewise, I see no issue with what KR are likely proposing for the Leader; guess I'd have a 36001 in aluminium/grey (as per actually trialled) and then consider a.n.other livery for a second, preferably either lined black or lined green with early crests (numbered 36002 and 36003). I guess you could argue that neither is historically accurate; 36002 was virtually complete, but never ran, and 36003 I'm not totally sure, but frames only ? Anyway, I wouldn't mind, I'd be perfectly happy to run them as a "what if" alongside Bulleid Pacifics etc, etc.

 

I think what I CAN say though is that were these being retailed in a traditional manner - place order, maybe a deposit of say £30 per loco (as per the Rails/Locomotion Dapol commissions) with balance payable when the models are in stock and ready to despatch, AND with a track record of a successful GT3 behind it, then I'd be highly tempted by a Fell + a fleet of 3 Leaders (in different numbers/liveries).

[Pre Grouping fan]

I tend to agree with you regarding payments but the larger companies you mention can afford the productions coasts with only a small deposit. KR models being a small company might struggle to cover their costs using that system.

 

For the liveries im going to throw this idea into the mix for @KR Models to consider:

 

What might be a good idea? Is to make the models in the few main liveries, lined or unlined grey, Black and Lined green but to supply them un-numbered and include a set of transfers for the sides (railtech transfers) and etched plates for the ends with the numbers 36001-36005 which were the ones that became physical locos albeit in different states of construction. This would make more sense than making the models numbered out of the factory. most people would only want 36001 as it was the only one to be tested but there would be some people that might want a model of the other Leaders and probably would be ok with renumbering their loco to suit.

 

Just my 2 pence on the subject. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 18:43, RichardT said:

If Hornby can produce the Gresley W1 in a fictitious LNER livery carrying the name it never actually carried, then I don’t see why KR can’t offer a fictitious “production series” Leader in whatever livery looks best...

Although not interested in the Leader model, I am all in favour of the 'might have been' livery idea, and hope it wins general acceptance. (Because when a RTR OO Bugatti front P2 model appears I want it in BR late crest green. Fully prepared to put the 9MT power classification on the cab side sheets myself.)

[jonny777]

On 06/07/2020 at 07:05, uax6 said:

Going back to the black Leader for a minute. Having got the Robertson's books off the shelf this morning, I would say that 36001 certainly carried gloss black before she was repainted grey at Brighton before she emerged for testing. 36002 I would say in every photo of her in store that she was only painted in red lead. There is no gloss finish anywhere, and of course painting would be the last job before sending off works.

The livery therefore for 36001 would only be grey, with or without lining, with or without BR crest...

 

Andy G

 

 

I have a photo of 36002/3 inside New Cross shed in my collection. The image was taken by the late Colin Major on one of his regular London 'shed bash' adventures. It is not brilliant but is one of the very few which shows 36003 that I have seen. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[truffy]

6 hours ago, WisTramwayMan said:

versions in Battleship Grey (which it actually wore),

Please let’s not open that up here, it’s been thrashed out already in the W1 thread. 

 

5 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

What might be a good idea? Is to make the models in the few main liveries, lined or unlined grey, Black and Lined green but to supply them un-numbered and include a set of transfers for the sides (railtech transfers) and etched plates for the ends with the numbers 36001-36005 which were the ones that became physical locos albeit in different states of construction. This would make more sense than making the models numbered out of the factory. most people would only want 36001 as it was the only one to be tested but there would be some people that might want a model of the other Leaders and probably would be ok with renumbering their loco to suit.

 

Just my 2 pence on the subject. 

Here’s my 2p. Leave KRM to number and plate them as they see fit. Some people are uncomfortable numbering and adding plates. Those that aren’t typically renumber their locos themselves and source plates to suit. What’s wrong with keeping it simple?

 

As for liveries, I’ve always thought Leader would look smart in green or black. 

[Claycrossjunction]

As Bulleid fan I already have his black and chrome diesel model by Kernow Model Centre so the Leader will be of interest to me. The Leader may not of been an success story that Bulleid hoped for but would make an very interesting model by far . On my dream list of freaks and oddballs of the railway world I hope to see an 00 gauge Bulleid EMU double Decker might see the light of day. 

[Spam Can Man]

I would love a  RTR Bulleid DD emu (or 2!). There have been a number of kit versions in the past, but detail and quality wise not always brilliant. Besides, by the time you splash out for wheels, motor(s) gearboxes, paints and transfers they work out very expensive!

[GWR-fan]

From what I have seen of previous unnumbered models from several manufacturers,  the typical hobbyist leaves the model unnumbered or simply lacks the confidence to apply the decals.  While numbering a loco may be a basic task for many the end result is not always as well done as by the manufacturer.  I have seen numerous "damaged" models on a well known store website where the modeller has totally botched the application of both numbers and nameplates. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

For those who didn't watch the Facebook/YouTube live video last night.

 

Keith said the Leader had got healthy numbers so was progressing with the CAD and should have something to show by the end of the year. 

[Oldddudders]

On 23/07/2020 at 20:58, Spam Can Man said:

I would love a  RTR Bulleid DD emu (or 2!). There have been a number of kit versions in the past, but detail and quality wise not always brilliant. Besides, by the time you splash out for wheels, motor(s) gearboxes, paints and transfers they work out very expensive!

DD and Leader have something in common - neither saw much of the network! 4-car EMUs don't seem to sell in enormous numbers, and ones that only ever plied one short route - the Bexleyheath Line - are therefore unlikely to make anyone's fortune. 

[Mel_H]

On 06/07/2020 at 18:43, RichardT said:

If Hornsby can produce the Gresley W1 in a fictitious LNER livery carrying the name it never actually carried, then I don’t see why KR can’t offer a fictitious “production series” Leader in whatever livery looks best.  Such a model would be suitable for a “might have been” layout showing an early 1950s BR where the Leader design had worked out all its teething troubles and had gone into fleet service.  Given that loads of model railways are “might have beens”, I could see that working.  

 

Richard

I agree. Given that it would have been a mixed traffic Loco, rather than express, it is likely that lined BR black might have been applied.  I think it would look good! I understand that orders for the W1 in Fictional liveries have been high, much higher than expected.  KR could offer them as options, only to be produced if enough people order, like Rapido does

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Mel_H said:

I agree. Given that it would have been a mixed traffic Loco, rather than express, it is likely that lined BR black might have been applied.  I think it would look good! I understand that orders for the W1 in Fictional liveries have been high, much higher than expected.  KR could offer them as options, only to be produced if enough people order, like Rapido does

The big difference being W1 is pre-order not pay in advance.

its less cash outlay for speculators to order armfuls of the W1.

 

Additionally if people don't like the end result, they can opt out... I suspect thats what will happen to that green peckett with the dark green panel.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by adb968008

[KR Models]

On 19/12/2020 at 01:49, Mel_H said:

I agree. Given that it would have been a mixed traffic Loco, rather than express, it is likely that lined BR black might have been applied.  I think it would look good! I understand that orders for the W1 in Fictional liveries have been high, much higher than expected.  KR could offer them as options, only to be produced if enough people order, like Rapido does

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.  No final decision has been made over liveries, as we are still researching this ( yes we actually do research).  For sure the grey one, and the BR Black early crest, but after that, not sure.  There's 3 different versions of the grey one we have found.  No name plates or numbers, just numbers, numbers and crest.  So which one do you do?  You can't do all three grey versions as you have to have a minimum quantity to justify the setting up in the factory.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.  No final decision has been made over liveries, as we are still researching this ( yes we actually do research).  For sure the grey one, and the BR Black early crest, but after that, not sure.  There's 3 different versions of the grey one we have found.  No name plates or numbers, just numbers, numbers and crest.  So which one do you do?  You can't do all three grey versions as you have to have a minimum quantity to justify the setting up in the factory.

Surely the simple answer is to go for the plain grey - it shouldn't be difficult to get somebody to produce transfers for those who want to add them, or if you faced the same problem with locos that had nameplates, to include stick-on plates.   

 

It's really just a commercial decision whether you think you will lose more sales by producing them without numbers than you lose to potential customers who think you've produced the "wrong" version because they've got to modify it.

[phil gollin]

.

 

I think that the most popular version(s) would be the one(s) that actually went out into traffic.  Who wants a model of a loco which just sat in the builder's yard ?

 

.

[KR Models]

On 20/12/2020 at 06:57, Michael Hodgson said:

Surely the simple answer is to go for the plain grey - it shouldn't be difficult to get somebody to produce transfers for those who want to add them, or if you faced the same problem with locos that had nameplates, to include stick-on plates.   

 

It's really just a commercial decision whether you think you will lose more sales by producing them without numbers than you lose to potential customers who think you've produced the "wrong" version because they've got to modify it.

 

We understand the importance of getting all the details right the first time.  The obvious first choice is the grey version, and possibly the never seen in public BR Black early crest version.

[friscopete]

I will wait for the Santa Fe livery .