Sentinel railmotor

[rue_d_etropal]

I have come across this Sentinel railmotor which ran in Spain, and is now awaiting restoration. It was in service up to 60s.

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=132975

 

Just wondering if anyone knows of any scale drawings, or at least dimensions. I have book on Sentinel but no dimensions in it.

Edited August 23, 2020 by rue_d_etropal
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[sncf231e]

From steam at the Renfe:

 

Regards

Fred

[rue_d_etropal]

thanks, trouble with the Sentinels was that they were similar but different. I have drawings for the LNER and LMS versions, and these are similar to the Jersey ones, but the continental ones were bigger, in particular the broad gauge versions. It might be possible to estimate width from buffers (what distance were these on Spanish stock?).

 

It is definitely wider than standard gauge versions which started out at 8ft wide then 8ft 6in wide.

[EddieB]

Finding dimensions, let alone a drawing, is proving particularly difficult!  Searching through contemporary catalogues as well as both English and Spanish books, I found plenty of pictures, and some quite interesting descriptions - but only drawings of railcars built for other customers. 

 

Eventually I found a dimensioned diagram in "Del Vapor Al AVE" (Volume II), a RENFE publication from 1995 (where it is hidden amongst diesel railmotors and units).  I'm a bit suspicious that the leading measurements are given in nice round metric units - I would have thought it would have been built to imperial amounts.  Unfortunately it's only a side elevation - width remains a mystery.

 

 

 

Here's a photo from October 2005, when the railcar was little more than a burnt out bodyshell in the AZAFT storage line besides Zaragoza Delicias.  (I had previously overlooked it as a wrecked carriage on an earlier visit).  The bank overlooking the site was thick mud!

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by EddieB

[rue_d_etropal]

thanks, I agree the metric dimentions look odd, but it was rebuilt in the 30s.

Having said that I found a similar drawing for one which ran on Sri Lanka, which being 5ft 6in gauge would be about same size and that had a 7ft bogie at front and 6ft 6in one at back, and has a longer body. Would think the Spanish one was 9ft wide, as that is what Sri Lankan one was.

There are a lot of similarities with the Sri Lankan one. The casing behind chimney is the same, not something that common.

[rue_d_etropal]

Found this website. Looks like the Sentinel is being restored now.

http://mundo-ferroviario.es/index.php/historia/41866-las-tracciones-termica-y-electrica-en-renfe-x-un-automotor-singular-renfe-9091

 

Done a bit of work based on that outline drawing. Basic dimensions on drawing are OK. Worked out it is 9ft wide(standard for Sentinel at the time). Front end is identical to LNER one, except the Spanish one is taller above windows with same roof. I estimated cab back as far as luggage area is same as well. But the drawing does not match this, so working from photos and using GIMP produced what I think is scale side image.

The chimneyand coal hopper behind it are similar to that on the Sri Lankan one, which is actually only same height as the LNER one.

 

One of my GIMP iages showed that the bogies are as  thought, 7ft and 6ft 6in wheelbases, not 2.5metres which looks like a common wheelbase for Spanish coaches.

 

It certainly makes it easier from a design point of view having some features common to different versions.

 

I also found out that Spanish buffer to buffer distance is 2 metres, which is only just possible with this railmotor.

Edited August 30, 2020 by rue_d_etropal

[rue_d_etropal]

After assuming it must be only 9ft wide, I did my design , but it did not look right. Checking the Sentinel book,and it was more likely to have ben 10ft wide, as that seems to be their standard for 5ft 6in gauge(or near). Odd that the Sri Lankan one was only 9ft wide, but that was also only 12ft hight to top of roof, wheras this one was 13ft.

Worked through design again, and it looks better.

I have found lots of photos online. I think it was a popular subject in final years. Seems to have been painted green then, but also found a photo in red/cream .

Found another photo in Z-H days and the odd window on side next to double doors is not there. Probably put ina part of 1933 rebuild, which might not have been that much. The coloured illustration in Sentinel book, which is also on cover, shows it in red, but no railway identifier, so presume this is as it was delivered.

 

On subject of buffere to buffer distance, I checked one of my Electrotren locos (current Hornby low cost one) and its buffers work out at 2 metres apart, which is one reason why it looks ok in bigger scale with OO.

 

In my onine searces came across a collction of photos showing older railcars, quite a mixture of French ,Italian and German ones. Would be nice to find some drawings as ome are very stylish, and  difficult to scratchbuild so ideal for 3D printing.

 

[Lovemymodelling]

Have you tried the question on the Spanish equivalent of RM web forotrens, internet translation can be of great help for questions.

 

https://www.forotrenes.com/foro/

 

 

[rue_d_etropal]

10 hours ago, Lovemymodelling said:

Have you tried the question on the Spanish equivalent of RM web forotrens, internet translation can be of great help for questions.

 

https://www.forotrenes.com/foro/

 

 

had a quick look, I am in no hurry. The Sentinel interested me partly because it was in the recent book about Sentinel.

Finding a source of Spanish railway magazines online might be useful.

[H16LSWR]

I do not have access to drawings for the Zafra-Huelva rail coach but some dimensions were quoted in the initial order to Sentinel -

Length of body      42ft 0 in

Height of car          12ft 10 1/4 in from rail to top of roof gutters

Width of car           10ft 0 in

Driving bogie wheelbase 7ft 0in

trailing bogie wheelbase 6ft 6in

wheel diameter                 2ft 6in

All instruction plates in Spanish but pressure gauge calibrated in pounds per sq inch

Geared to run at 30 m.p.h. at 500 r.p.m.

 

Not sure if the 1933 rebuild in Barcelona altered any of the body dimensions.

 

H16LSWR

 

[rue_d_etropal]

That confirms what I thought. Pity those dimensions are not actually in the new book about Sentinel, especially as it is this railmotor that is on the cover. No matter, part of the fun is trying to work out the bits which are unclear. At least with the railmotos Sentinel tended to use more standard parts, even if they did evolve over those first years.

I think the 1933 rebuild was more to do with the luggage area. An old photo showing it in original H-Z days shows the opposite side without the extra window.

In final years one photo show passengers(railway workers?) crowded in that area and even on outside steps , although that might be because they want a quick get away as the train is approaching a station platform.Also as that was only entrance for passenger, maybe it was modified more for pasenger use, not luggage.

Would be interesting to see how the restored railmotor comes out, although they have already fitted non Sentinel buffers which is a pity, but understandable. I have become a bit wary of preserved railay stock,as it is often 'restored' in a non original way, so can not be relied on when looking for detail for designing a model.