crackedmember Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Hi, Does anyone know if No.1925 ever carried BR Livery. It was withdrawn in 1952 and was the last GWR saddle tank not converted to a pannier tank in service. Cheers Clive Burdikin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2020 Too dirty to tell judging by what I've heard about from various Enginemen who remembered/had worked on it when it was at Southall. By the 1930s lots of older GWR tank engines carried no discernible indication of ownership beynd the style of the numberplate and many of the engines were extremely grubby even back then if photos are to be believed. So post-war probably no better, or cleaner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted September 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2020 Very unlikely, but I’d be delighted to be proved wrong. By nationalisation, a program of replacing these older locos with the later series of 8750s, including the steam brake only 6750 variant, was well under way and it is very doubtful that any of the pre-57xx that survived into BR ownership were ever given any BR livery, or even cleaned since their last works visit. it is possible that she carried the post 1942 G W R ‘initials’ livery, likely in austerity black, but the condition of a loco very much at the bottom of food chain in that period makes the point a bit academic. For comparison/info, I have a photo of 2761 on the reception roads at Swindon in 1950 a few months after withdrawal that I’m not sure if I can post, in black austerity livery and ‘grotesque’ initials as applied at Caerphilly between 1942 and 1945. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted September 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) I found a photo of her in later years in the "Everything Great Western" group in Facebook. Date of photo not given but it looks like she's standing in a line of condemned locos with her number roughly painted on where the plate used to be. The letters GWR are just visible under the grime on the tank. The caption says: "1901 Class loco No.1925, was turned out from Stafford Road Works in December 1883. In 1949 it was specially painted at the works ( including GWR lettering) in order to appear in the film " The Chiltern Hundreds" The engine then returned to normal service until withdrawn in April 1951, by which time it was then the last GWR O-6-0 saddle tank loco in existence." I can't copy the photo or provide a link because "Everything Great Western" is a closed group but it is well worth joining. If you join, search for "saddle 1925" to find the photo. Edited September 21, 2020 by Harlequin 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2020 Plenty of pictures around showing these locos without any ownership insignia from fairly early in their lives. There's a spanking picture of 997 at PDN absolutely spotless and no insignia. 2007 in works grey likewise. It seems unlikely BR would paint them as they were destined for scrap pretty quick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted September 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2020 I would be interested to know when the Great Western started/stopped painting saddle tank insignia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said: I would be interested to know when the Great Western started/stopped painting saddle tank insignia. And why? Especially as many pannier conversions seem to have got insignia. Or, did they ever put insignia on some classes? Loads of early photos showing non insignia locos. Even from the early broad gauge days the GWR was not known for applying company insignia to it's locomotives. I assume it's because they assumed they were "unmistakenly Great Western" so didn't see a need for it. EDIT In Russell's GWR locomotives there is a J Maskelyne drawing of 1925 with GWR on the tanks and Russell comments that this was a one off for the film and applying insignia was not normal. Edited September 22, 2020 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribird Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I knew that number seemed familiar. If you look at the GWR 1942-1947 loco livery on gwr.org.uk (Link), and scroll down 3/4 of the page, should be a very nice image of her ex-works 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I thought that Southall treated 1925 as a sort of pet. As such it may even have been cleaned occasionally! I presume when axe fell it would have been replaced by one of the new 16xx rather than 67xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Photo here of it on the scrap line at Swindon. Pretty familiar photo. As notable for the loco behind which is 3447 Jackdaw one of the last Bird series. https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/192883302934?chn=ps Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2020 12 hours ago, wagonman said: I thought that Southall treated 1925 as a sort of pet. As such it may even have been cleaned occasionally! I presume when axe fell it would have been replaced by one of the new 16xx rather than 67xx. Odd that it might sound I think its actual replacement at Southall was 1501. The reason for that was because 1925 had survived as long as it did in order to work a very tightly curved siding. I think, from what various former Southall Enginemen said to me in later years that when 1925 was taken away there were all sorts of problems trying to shunt that particular siding and they were solved eventually by transferring 1501 from Old Oak to Southall and it could manage the job because of its very short wheelbase. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Thanks Mike. I had assumed it was a matter of axle loading rather than wheelbase. Was it one of the Slough Trading Estate sidings, or Lyons depot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 1, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2020 15 hours ago, wagonman said: Thanks Mike. I had assumed it was a matter of axle loading rather than wheelbase. Was it one of the Slough Trading Estate sidings, or Lyons depot? I've an idea that it was probably Lyons but I can't really be sure at this distance in time. The chap who told me about did mention the name of the siding but his main point was more about the incongruity of replacing an ancient old saddle tank with a 15XX. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell price Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 In a book I have there are pictures of 2021 class and other ancient panniers being repaired and some works attention at Derby works!! They were black with British Railways lettering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmt0815 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Just watching the 1949 film The Chiltern Hundreds. 1925 features in that with GWR logo. Apparently it's Denham station. Looks different from now - occasionally use it to go to Wembley. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 1, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2022 Locos witthout insignia featured in early BR days as well; my downloaded ebook version of John Hodges and Stuart Davies' 'Tondu Valleys' books has a photo of Tondu's 4557, p134 of the second volume, arriving at Tondu from Porthcawl and dated April 1952. Coaches are in crimson and the loco, fairly clean (certainly enough to show clealy any livery or totem), in unlined BR black with no totem or lettering of any sort on the side tanks. A pity, because I know she later carried the lined black LNW livery with unicycling lion, which I would like to represent, but I have no photographic proof of her carrying any other than this plain black while she was at TDU, the lined livery photo being taken after her transfer to Narberth, 3/10/53 according to BRdatabase. She may well have carried the plain black for a time at Narberth, but it is unlikely that she had a works visit and a repaint between April 1952 and October 1953 at TDU, and it is best to model the most likely scenario in lieu of hard information, a familiar thing to those of us who model the less glamourous parts of the railway. I am often mildly surprised at the amount of photographic record there actually is of the Tondu Valleys network. Not sure if this plain black business was a WR thing or if it happend elsewhere as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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