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Revision to eBay seller fees


ianmacc
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I received the notification yesterday re the new fees and requiring my bank details if I want to continue selling beyond 30th April.

It seems there are pros and cons to it.    Possible higher sales prices in a few cases if buyers can now pay by card.   No more Paypal fees but eBay's cut from the sale price is increased by an equivalent amount.  This is effectively an increase in fees in cases where seller pays by cheque.      A dispute fee, £14 or £16.80, depending on whether private or trade seller, payable if eBay finds against you as a seller, which considering eBay already tend to side with the buyer is going to financially incentivise eBay to be even more pro-buyer.   PayPal already have my bank details and I'm not keen on also giving them to eBay.   The fewer organisations which have direct debit access to my bank the better.  I already had to cancel my TV licence direct debit because it got scammed (luckily caught by the bank) and now back to  paying my licence annually when the reminder comes in.  I'm considering taking a break from selling on eBay for a few months while I wait to read of others' experiences of how the new system is working out.

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Just had my first experience of the new Ebay payment system. Went smoothly enough, but had to wait a few days for payment to actually arrive in my bank account. 

 

Item sold on Sunday 21st Feb and prompt payment by buyer. I posted the item on Monday 22nd Feb as requested by Ebay. On Tuesday 23rd notified by Ebay that payment was on it's way to my bank. Money arrived today in my bank account.

 

I guess this is the way it will be if we want to continue selling on Ebay. I don't buy and sell at lot of stuff so I'm not too bothered. I'll just wait till the £1 fees are offered by Ebay.

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I wonder how this would work for a buyer from outside the UK buying something, then asking for a refund, ebay refunding and the seller then invoking the DD guarantee.

 

Although it is slightly attractive as funds held in PayPal accounts won't count for chargebacks, whereas when the money comes straight from your account it will.

This is why I try and empty my PayPal account frequently.

 

I ignored the "payments change coming" stuff a few months back, haven't had any other communication since.

Strange that even though PayPal and ebay split years ago, they were still very much linked...  why split off from them now?

Edited by Sir TophamHatt
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PayPal only, instant confirmed payment, you can even pay by card through PayPal if you don't have a PayPal account.

 

If I have to wait for payment to be confirmed every time before I dispatch, people are going to start complaining.

 

A really stupid idea from Ebay, in a World where instant payments and money transfers are the normal, this is a huge leap backwards. 

Edited by John M Upton
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3 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

I wonder how this would work for a buyer from outside the UK buying something, then asking for a refund, ebay refunding and the seller then invoking the DD guarantee.

 

One assumes the agreement with eBay will cover them using the DD for refunds.

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17 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

PayPal only, instant confirmed payment, you can even pay by card through PayPal if you don't have a PayPal account.

 

If I have to wait for payment to be confirmed every time before I dispatch, people are going to start complaining.

 

A really stupid idea from Ebay, in a World where instant payments and money transfers are the normal, this is a huge leap backwards. 

I agree. I wasn't too happy.

 

Chances are the buyer received the item before I received my money!  If you delay posting them you risk negative feedback from the buyer.

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3 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Strange that even though PayPal and ebay split years ago, they were still very much linked...  why split off from them now?

Pure speculation on my part, but Paypal recently introduced a 30p surcharge per transaction on all sales paid through them on top of their existing charges.  I think Ebay thought "we'll have some of that" as their new charges  add up to roughly what the combined charges were previously, plus a 30p surcharge per transaction. 

 

When I sell an item I get an email telling me it's been paid for.  As I generate my postage labels through Ebay it's actually impossible to dispatch something until it's paid for, even if the money sits with them for a day or so (38 hours for the last one).

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I just completed a survey from eBay on the new managed payments system.  They are trying to incentisize (?) a quicker payment method if a seller is not happy with receiving his funds in a 1 - 4 business day default timeframe.  If you are willing to pay a percentage fee increase depending on how quickly you want your money then they are suggesting several options to either receive your money within 30 minutes, a business day or the default 1 - 4 business days (no additional fee for the default payment period).  Their models are between 0.5% to 2% and also a maximum payment fee up to $20.00 Aud depending on how quickly you want your money.  If you are prepared to wait then no additional percentage fee payable on the existing selling fees.  The quicker you want your money the higher the fee and the higher the maximum fee amount payable.

 

EBay are also considering using your payments from buyers as a "wallet" so you are able to use your eBay account credit to purchase items (only on eBay?),  much like using your PayPal account credit.  After completing the survey it seems that all eBay is interested in is making money on your money by offering incentives to sellers to get their own money paid out more quickly rather than await the default period.  In effect they are holding your money hostage and asking a ransom to be paid for it to be placed in your bank account.

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51 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

EBay are also considering using your payments from buyers as a "wallet" so you are able to use your eBay account credit to purchase items (only on eBay?),  much like using your PayPal account credit.  After completing the survey it seems that all eBay is interested in is making money on your money by offering incentives to sellers to get their own money paid out more quickly rather than await the default period.  In effect they are holding your money hostage and asking a ransom to be paid for it to be placed in your bank account.

 

That's why they should be regulated. Paypal accepts deposits from the public and offers a money transmission service (one definition of a bank).   They have a banking licence, or at least in Europe they do - the USA has some rather unsatisfactory ideas about banking regulation and consumer protection, which is how paypal in its early days got away with operating without a licence.

 

Ebay don't have a banking license and no doubt would argue that they don't need one as they are only an auction house, but the public is still exposed to financial risk in the event of disputes and short of going to court there is not a lot the public can do if they are ripped off by a big corporation.

 

The Aussies are standing up to Facebook and similar multinationals on some aspects of intellectual property rights, and I say good luck to them.  We could with some of that in this country too.  And before Brexit I could thank the EU for taking on people like Microsoft for some of their business practices, albeit too little and too late.  Whilst the UK on its own could in theory do the same, one small country doesn't have the leverage of the EU.

 

 

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8 hours ago, John M Upton said:

PayPal only, instant confirmed payment, you can even pay by card through PayPal if you don't have a PayPal account.

 

If I have to wait for payment to be confirmed every time before I dispatch, people are going to start complaining.

 

A really stupid idea from Ebay, in a World where instant payments and money transfers are the normal, this is a huge leap backwards. 

You get confirmation of payment just as you did before. However where PayPal effectively ‘bridged’ the funds, so you had them immediately in your pocket (they could still be reversed of course) Adyen (who are the new payment provider) don’t. eBay make it clear that you’ve been paid and you should despatch the goods before the funds are physically in your account. I can see this may make some uncomfortable, I was mildly hesitant, but it seems to work fine.

 

I think there were a lot of illusions in how PayPal worked, Adyen are a more conventional payment processor, they’re FCA registered (granted a temporary licence post Brexit as they’re primary registration is in the EEA) and I think it’s actually better for sellers. People know how PayPal work, and therefore like it, but there’s a fair bit of unsavoury practice. 
 

The standard fees for a private seller, if you’re not doing weird things around multiple listings etc are 12.8% plus 30p. Listing is free for up to 1,000 items a month. 
 

It used to be 10%, plus PayPal at 2.9% plus 30p. Ergo you should Be better off by 0.1%, and if you wait for the £1 listing deals then immeasurably better off. I just paid £1 on a £300 sale, so 0.3% fees. I can wait a couple of days for the cash to be in my account. YMMV. 

Edited by njee20
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19 hours ago, Alcanman said:

I don't buy and sell at lot of stuff so I'm not too bothered. I'll just wait till the £1 fees are offered by Ebay.

The issue though is what happens when there is a dispute, not the initial fees.

 

I always transferred funds out of paypal immediately so if a buyer tried it on and eBay sided with them (which reports suggest is not uncommon these days), they would then have to try and recover the money rather than just withhold it irrespective of my position.  

 

I'm with those who will stop selling until I've seen some feedback on this.

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2 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

The issue though is what happens when there is a dispute, not the initial fees.

 

I always transferred funds out of paypal immediately so if a buyer tried it on and eBay sided with them (which reports suggest is not uncommon these days), they would then have to try and recover the money rather than just withhold it irrespective of my position.  

 

I'm with those who will stop selling until I've seen some feedback on this.

 

You know that would never have worked right? Paypal put your account into overdraft, and as soon as you try and do anything it would have added the amount you owe onto the payment. You would literally have to never use that account again and then fight off the debt collectors. 

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12 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

 

You know that would never have worked right? Paypal put your account into overdraft, and as soon as you try and do anything it would have added the amount you owe onto the payment. You would literally have to never use that account again and then fight off the debt collectors. 

 

Yes my only ever dispute was when I bought some as new bike parts which were clearly used and broken. The dispute found in my favour but I wasn't refunded because there were no funds in the sellers account (I resolved via my credit card instead).

 

So I take your point to a degree but as a seller, if they have already refunded the buyer frankly you are never going to get anywhere in a dispute. If their only recourse is to put your account on hold you do at least have some traction in trying to get a resolution.

 

I generally only sell higher value stuff. if we were talking small sums I'd just write off the odd bad one.

 

Edited by Hal Nail
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7 hours ago, njee20 said:


 

The standard fees for a private seller, if you’re not doing weird things around multiple listings etc are 12.8% plus 30p. Listing is free for up to 1,000 items a month. 
 

It used to be 10%, plus PayPal at 2.9% plus 30p. Ergo you should Be better off by 0.1%, and if you wait for the £1 listing deals then immeasurably better off. I just paid £1 on a £300 sale, so 0.3% fees. I can wait a couple of days for the cash to be in my account. YMMV. 

 

That's a darn sight clearer and easier than for Business accounts where the percentage final value fee varies according to category, you still pay listing fees and then have to pay VAT on top! 

 

Theoretically that's 30p listing + circa 10.9% final value fee + 30p final value fee + vat at 20% on the fee total! 

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20 hours ago, petethemole said:

Pure speculation on my part, but Paypal recently introduced a 30p surcharge per transaction on all sales paid through them on top of their existing charges.

 

There's always been a fixed charge in addition to the percentage. It's 2.9% + 30p.

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1 hour ago, Crosland said:

 

There's always been a fixed charge in addition to the percentage. It's 2.9% + 30p.

That's why I gave up listing stuff for 99p

If you only get one bid, by the time you

take out 2.9% + 30p + eBay commission

you're left with peanuts.

Instead I try to list low value stuff in lots of £4 - £5.

Ok so the percentage amount increases but

the fixed charge is spread over multiple items.

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16 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

And before Brexit I could thank the EU for taking on people like Microsoft for some of their business practices, albeit too little and too late.  Whilst the UK on its own could in theory do the same, one small country doesn't have the leverage of the EU.


What, like forcing them to have that stupid "select which browser you want" window upon installing Windows, or shipping Windows without a Media Player... a whole lot of good that did.

Not sure why people seem to think we'll be ignored in the world without the EU...  fact is, nobody knows what is going to happen over the next 10 years and that's why many decided staying would be best.  The current status is more stable than the unknown.

 

The UK could decide to take any action against ebay or force them to have a banking licence.  I suspect, like everything else, they are just being slow or don't really care.  We should stick with Australia - they seem to know what they're doing most of the time.  If enough countries joined with them in their quest with Facebook, Facebook would back down.

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22 hours ago, njee20 said:

It used to be 10%, plus PayPal at 2.9% plus 30p. Ergo you should Be better off by 0.1%, and if you wait for the £1 listing deals then immeasurably better off. 

 

The £1 listing deals are a special offer, they are only made available from time to time, and then only to selected sellers.

I have two ebay ids, and have sometimes received the £1 offer on one id and not the other in the past.

They don't explain the basis of how that selection is done, and there's nothing to stop them selecting on ebay profitability criteria. 

I already list items over a tenner ONLY when I can do it on a £1 offer.

What reason do we have to assume these offers will continue to be available?

 

And if paypal aren't getting their fees any more, why should they continue to offer their service to buyers?

 

As ebay fees are applied to the P&P these days, you still have to inflate your postage costs by 12.9 % just to cover your postage stamps.

 

 

And the Chancellor is rumoured to be considering a tax on online transactions.  It is said that he favours trying to level the playing field between shops and online, and it seems to be generally recognised that something needs to be done about the present business rates system.  The rate has been suggested as starting off at 2% at first and this might sound too drastic, but rates do have a habit of going up,  In due course our expenditure on Covid has to be repaid.  It's only a few years since War Loan stock, issued for WW1 was finally repaid.  However I would be surprised if this tax is introduced immediately in the forthcoming budget, but that's only because of the present extremely fragile state of the economy.  Don't forget that income tax was introduced as a "temporary measure" to fund the Napoleonic wars, and only levied on the rich.

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I know, hence saying “wait for a £1 listing offer”. They messed around last year with reduced fee offers too, so 5% fees and things,  plus there wee breaks of several months with nothing. I agree it does sometimes seem quite arbitrary who gets what. Surely the continuation or not of those is irrelevant though? To them it shouldn’t make a huge difference. They sold PayPal 5 years ago, so they’ve not been benefitting from the extra fees there. If word gets out that it’s now an even better deal for sellers that’s a benefit to them. Of course they could discontinue the offers, but then you’re still 0.1% better off than previously. 

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I've sold a lot in the last 18 months as I cleared out my 7mm stock and the frequency of the offers I get has gone up. I think they are happy to just encourage volume.

 

One thing we should bear in mind when considering the costs is before eBay, 2nd hand stuff in good nick would be worth about half the shops price, not more than anyone with a little effort could find it brand new!

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On 21/02/2021 at 00:10, TheSignalEngineer said:

I will not be listing on Ebay if the system is as I interpret their latest messages. If I sell anything I will determine how I will be paid, not them. 

Losing my custom will not worry them as I only list a few odd items of surplus stuff when I gat a £1 listing offer, but they will also lose from the amount I purchase. I do find that very often Ebay is a good place to search for something but then often manage to get the item cheaper by going direct to business sellers.

 

I recall similar things being said many moons ago, when eBay first acquired PayPal, and then insisted it was mandatory to accept it (alongside other methods) and that you couldnt offer discounts for non-paypal payments.... 

 

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Just had the email saying my account is moving across to the new system and I need to give them my bank details by March 31st

 

what I couldn’t find was any details as to what the fees look like under the new system.   I certainly have my reservations, I do not like the idea of the delay in receipt of payment (which poses an issue in that I will not ship until I have a cleared payment which I don’t think is allowable under the new rules.)  

 

i also like the fact that my PayPal account keeps proceeds separate from the joint bank account (so there are no questions about spending from my wife when I’m spending the proceeds of sales). Now there is a faff having to transfer sales out of the account into a savings account each time.

 

 

I might have to just try a bit more Facebook selling I think, (and hope that there is another £1 listing day before the change is forced upon me to sell a final few high value items) 

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7 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

Just had the email saying my account is moving across to the new system and I need to give them my bank details by March 31st

 

what I couldn’t find was any details as to what the fees look like under the new system.   I certainly have my reservations, I do not like the idea of the delay in receipt of payment (which poses an issue in that I will not ship until I have a cleared payment which I don’t think is allowable under the new rules.)  

 

i also like the fact that my PayPal account keeps proceeds separate from the joint bank account (so there are no questions about spending from my wife when I’m spending the proceeds of sales). Now there is a faff having to transfer sales out of the account into a savings account each time.

 

 

I might have to just try a bit more Facebook selling I think, (and hope that there is another £1 listing day before the change is forced upon me to sell a final few high value items) 

Same concerns as me. PayPal allows eBay to be managed independently of regular finances. When it’s gone it’s gone etc ! 

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Same concerns here, more so that I used the PayPal income to pay the Royal Mail for the postage through their Click and Drop system (I wouldn't touch the Ebay postage purchase system with a twenty metre cattle prod...).

 

Now I face the potential faff of having to transfer funds from Ebay sales back into PayPal from my bank account to pay out the postage!!  Also I will NOT dispatch under any circumstances until payment has been cleared and is in my hands.

 

Many I reckon will still pay through PayPal anyway, it is too established.  It will be newcomers to Ebay who will be effectively shepherded towards the new Ebay money management system.

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