RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted December 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2020 Great! Looking good Wayne. Patrick wrote "using nothing more than track cutters and small pair of pliers to bend the check rails". Does that mean the "set" bend is pre-formed in the diverging stock rail? I know I have a bee in my bonnet about the set, but it really is the key to easily assembling a working accurately gauged switch. And so often goes unmentioned in the usual track building texts. It's also an important part of the prototype design of a "B" switch -- prominently marked on Templot templates. For a kit, pre-bending the set means making both left and right hand stock rails. When I was producing turnout kits 40 years ago, I used to supply one stock rail over-length, with a set bend at both ends. With instructions to cut off the unwanted end for a left or right hand turnout. p.s. for beginners you will need to explain how to identify the head of the rail, otherwise it won't fit in the chairs. On my kits I used to mark the head of each rail with a felt-tip marker. Martin. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) Thanks Martin, that is very nice to hear, especially coming from yourself. The prototype kit Patrick received did not use a set bend. This is the reason the tie bar was moved 1 sleeper/timber forward, something that you had spotted in the other thread. I moved it forward to allow extra clearance without a set bend, avoiding it going under gauge in that area. I do this on the N Gauge kits. I did this to remove an extra step in the build, however, I have since changed, opting to put the tie bar in the correct place, and instructing the builder to put a slight set bend in the diverging stock rail. You are correct about identifying 'which way is up', this will be illustrated in the instructions. What approach did your kits use? Solder construction and gauges? Thanks for your time, Wayne. Edited December 3, 2020 by Wayne Kinney 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted December 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said: What approach did your kits use? Solder construction and gauges? Hi Wayne, Yes, soldered construction on copper-clad. It was before the days of injection-moulded chairs or 3D printing. All rails pre-formed/machined. The vee was red-heat silver-soldered. For the timbering there were 2 options: bog-standard copper-clad strips; or a premium version with individual timbers, which were milled all over to leave raised copper-clad pads for easy soldering to represent the chair bases. (I've answered in small text to avoid anyone mis-reading my reply in this topic as relevant to your new product.) cheers, Martin. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted December 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said: Thanks. I plan on doing A5, B6, B7, B8, C9 & C10... I plan to make all kinds of formations like crossovers, ladder crossovers, diamonds & slips, and also 3 way turnouts exactly like I have done in my N Gauge range. What about scissors crossovers, with points or slips or any combination? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Budgie said: What about scissors crossovers, with points or slips or any combination? Certainly possible, but after I tackle the aforementioned kits 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2020 10 hours ago, martin_wynne said: Hi Wayne, Yes, soldered construction on copper-clad. It was before the days of injection-moulded chairs or 3D printing. All rails pre-formed/machined. The vee was red-heat silver-soldered. For the timbering there were 2 options: bog-standard copper-clad strips; or a premium version with individual timbers, which were milled all over to leave raised copper-clad pads for easy soldering to represent the chair bases. (I've answered in small text to avoid anyone mis-reading my reply in this topic as relevant to your new product.) cheers, Martin. It's only a couple of years since I built the last of my stock of those (the bog-standard versions)! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmanchester Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hello Wayne, I think what you are doing with the new track range is great. A couple of questions, for now : 1) What is the width of the plain track sleepers and the crossing timbers used on the turnouts ? Is the underneath of the timbers solid plastic or is it hollowed out. 2) There is mention that the rail will be SMP/C&L type. Does that imply a correct head width for 1:76 scale. If it does be careful when moving on to the FB rail system as there doesn't seem to be any rail available with a correct head width - C&L and even the scale societies supply rail which is under-fed in the head department. The discontinued Peco IL-115 rail was the last available scale width head I know about. 3) Possibly an unfair question given that you have your hands rather full at present but are you planning to cater for different company chair types ( 2-bolt for us GWR fans, 4-bolt etc ) You may just have caused a stir down in South Devon........ Rob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 A very interesting development, did I miss the price? Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, robmanchester said: Hello Wayne, I think what you are doing with the new track range is great. A couple of questions, for now : 1) What is the width of the plain track sleepers and the crossing timbers used on the turnouts ? Is the underneath of the timbers solid plastic or is it hollowed out. 2) There is mention that the rail will be SMP/C&L type. Does that imply a correct head width for 1:76 scale. If it does be careful when moving on to the FB rail system as there doesn't seem to be any rail available with a correct head width - C&L and even the scale societies supply rail which is under-fed in the head department. The discontinued Peco IL-115 rail was the last available scale width head I know about. 3) Possibly an unfair question given that you have your hands rather full at present but are you planning to cater for different company chair types ( 2-bolt for us GWR fans, 4-bolt etc ) You may just have caused a stir down in South Devon........ Rob The width of the timbers at the switch end are 31.7mm, same as C&L or SMP flexi track. SMP bullhead rail has a head width of 0.8mm, C&L 0.9mm. 2/4-bolt chairs is something I can probably provide as a 'special order'. Thanks, Wayne. Edited December 4, 2020 by Wayne Kinney 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: A very interesting development, did I miss the price? Mike. I haven't announced a price, yet. Would price would you guys say is fair for what I'm offering? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said: I haven't announced a price, yet. Would price would you guys say is fair for what I'm offering? I wouldn't start from there if I were you. 5 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said: I haven't announced a price, yet. Would price would you guys say is fair for what I'm offering? Wayne A couple of things, firstly Len Newman (designer if C&L and Exactoscale products) stated he preferred the A6 to a B6, its slightly smaller and would give you 2 x A switches, 2 x B switches and 2 x C switches. As for price, surely it should be the cost materials and a slice for development plus mark-up and taxes. Otherwise you may encourage silly prices and expectations. Too cheap and you will loose money, on the other hand sales will drive retail costs to a degree I may have missed the reply but are these injection moulded or 3D printed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said: I wouldn't start from there if I were you. 16 minutes ago, hayfield said: As for price, surely it should be the cost materials and a slice for development plus mark-up and taxes. Otherwise you may encourage silly prices and expectations. Too cheap and you will loose money, on the other hand sales will drive retail costs to a degree Guys, that was only 'tongue in cheek', I already know the retail price is going to be I'll announce this in a few weeks time... 19 minutes ago, hayfield said: A couple of things, firstly Len Newman (designer if C&L and Exactoscale products) stated he preferred the A6 to a B6, its slightly smaller and would give you 2 x A switches, 2 x B switches and 2 x C switches. I can certainly add 'A6' to the list, no problem 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, hayfield said: stated he preferred the A6 to a B6 Hi John, That's true for the prototype, even an A-7 is a natural size and common. But I'm not sure for models -- "A" switches with 1:24 deflection can't be curved much without the radius going too tight; they don't belong in running lines; and didn't exist on the GWR and BR(W). Admittedly the B-6 is a rare beast on the prototype. But it's ideal as a "basic" model turnout because it can be curved a little if necessary, and is the shortest turnout which looks the part in a running line. B-7 is better, but needs more space. cheers, Martin. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said: I haven't announced a price, yet. Would price would you guys say is fair for what I'm offering? Whatever you decide it will still open the floodgates! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said: Hi John, That's true for the prototype, even an A-7 is a natural size and common. But I'm not sure for models -- "A" switches with 1:24 deflection can't be curved much without the radius going too tight; they don't belong in running lines; and didn't exist on the GWR and BR(W). Admittedly the B-6 is a rare beast on the prototype. But it's ideal as a "basic" model turnout because it can be curved a little if necessary, and is the shortest turnout which looks the part in a running line. B-7 is better, but needs more space. cheers, Martin. Martin Thanks, just repeating a conversation I had with Len and thought there might be a reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Splendid stuff... This is a game changer methinks, especially if soldering irons give you the wibbles. How feasible is a frog cast for the P4 types? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 minute ago, iak said: Splendid stuff... This is a game changer methinks, especially if soldering irons give you the wibbles. How feasible is a frog cast for the P4 types? Thanks, I am currently only considering 00 Gauge Standard, 00-SF and EM Gauge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said: Thanks, I am currently only considering 00 Gauge Standard, 00-SF and EM Gauge. No worries Wayne, I was merely checking. As it is, EM gauge track akin to your N gauge range is a very exciting development... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said: The width of the timbers at the switch end are 31.7mm, same as C&L or SMP flexi track. SMP bullhead rail has a head width of 0.8mm, C&L 0.9mm. Hi Wayne, That's presumably for 00. The BRMSB standard is actually 32mm. For EM it should be 34mm. Since the beginning of time SMP rail has been under scale width. Which is not good news if you are using track gauges, it doesn't locate in them accurately. That's not a problem if your kits don't need gauges. But if your kits are designed for SMP rail, they will be slightly under gauge if assembled with C&L rail. Not significant for standard 00, but might be for EM and 00-SF. cheers, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said: Since the beginning of time SMP rail has been under scale width. Which is not good news if you are using track gauges, Unless your gauges are made for SMP rail. I have a pair of more than 40-year old roller gauges that fit perfectly on SMP rail but are too tight for C&L. It's a long time ago but I think they came from Precision Scale Models in Newport. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Thanks Martin, No track gauges needed for the kits 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 But will they be moulded plastic or 3D printed? Sounds interesting whatever. Good luck on your venture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Hi Wayne and Patrick, Thanks for the prototype demo. This is a potentially very exciting development! It looks great but of course that's only half the story. The acid question is how well does it work? It would be great to see some rolling stock passing through it, if possible. Especially things that are known to be finicky like the front bogies/ponies of many locos. (BTW: I notice a step in the rail level after the frog in Patrick's photos.) Patrick's build demo shows a very simple electrical setup of the turnout. That's fair enough, but does (could?) the kit allow for insulating gaps in the rails, without requiring the use of ugly plastic fishplates? Maybe in positions to do something akin to a "unifrog" turnout? Edited December 5, 2020 by Harlequin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NFWEM57 Posted December 4, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, Harlequin said: Hi Wayne and Patrick, Thanks for the prototype demo. This is a potentially very exciting development! It looks great but of course that's only half the story. The acid question is how well does it work? It would be great to see some rolling stock passing through it, if possible. Especially things that are known to be a finicky like the front bogies/ponies of many locos. (BTW: I notice a step in the rail level after the frog in Patrick's photos.) Patrick's build demo shows a very simple electrical setup of the turnout. That's fair enough, but does (could?) the kit allow for insulating gaps in the rails, without requiring the use of ugly plastic fishplates? Maybe in positions to do something akin to a "unifrog" turnout? Hi, The 'step up' was foul up on my part, not a fault with product. That's why it is a prototype and assembly method was being tested using me, who has no experience of track making, without instructions - to bowl out any issues..! Here is a shot prior to soldering on the frog wire and gluing. No step..! On insulating gaps, Wayne will respond I feel sure but there will be small gaps required between rails and frogs I believe. If you go to the Finetrax site and look at the assembly instructions for a kit it shows the same methods being used on the N gauge kits. Hope this helps. Patrick 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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