Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Wayne Kinney]

32 minutes ago, billywhizz said:

Hi @Wayne Kinney are flat bottom rail on wood sleeper point kits in OO on the to do list? 

Cheers. 
Bill. 

Don't want to say much right now, but basically yes :)

[billywhizz]

And to go with a selection of flat bottom rail point kits, maybe some plain line sleeper bases for FBR with a representation of either BR1, BR2, Pandrol or Mills baseplates? 
Think I might be pushing my luck now!!!

 

Cheers. 
Bill. 

[martin_wynne]

14 hours ago, Budgie said:

 

My experience of wiring-up live frog single slips switching the frog by the other-end's point motor: if you set two straight roads through the slip, you end up with a short circuit. Of course if you use frog juicers the frog polarities are controlled by the train, but that only works for DCC.

 

That doesn't happen if you set up the control of the point motors following prototype practice. Normally it is not possible to have both straight routes set simultaneously. Here is an article showing how:

 

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/working_with_slips.php

 

 

 

Just realised it is 22 years since I wrote that article. Where do the years go? No Finetrax kits in those days. 🙂

 

Martin.

[St Enodoc]

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

That doesn't happen if you set up the control of the point motors following prototype practice. Normally it is not possible to have both straight routes set simultaneously. Here is an article showing how:

 

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/working_with_slips.php

 

 

 

Just realised it is 22 years since I wrote that article. Where do the years go? No Finetrax kits in those days. 🙂

 

Martin.

This is the key part:

 

"The lever interlocking in the signal box would prevent lever 15 being pulled if lever 10 has not been pulled first. This means that there is never a time when the route is set for both straight roads across the slip."

[MisterT]

Wayne - Thank you so much for all this development that you are doing! The turnout kits look really great, and I am eagerly looking forward to more sizes becoming available in 2mm fs 9.42mm gauge! 🙂

 

Martin - Thank you very much for your example of how a single slip would work on an up/down line. This is exactly the situation on the prototype that I am starting to model (Wheatley on the Princes Risborough to Oxford line) so it is really helpful to me to have a clear explanation of the order in which the point blades would be set. 🙂

 

However, could I please ask you (and maybe others?) about the alignment of the sleepers in such a situation?

Looking at the photos that I can find of Wheatley station, it appears that the sleeper arrangement is probably as in my first diagram, with all sleepers laid perpendicular to the running lines.

 

However, looking at all commercially available single slip turnouts/kits, the sleepers always seem to be arranged perpendicular to the the centre line of the slip (not sure if I have described that very well?) as highlighted in red in my second diagram.

 

Do you know what the normal prototype practice would be? Or does it vary between regions/locations?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

 

[martin_wynne]

16 minutes ago, MisterT said:

However, could I please ask you (and maybe others?) about the alignment of the sleepers in such a situation?

Looking at the photos that I can find of Wheatley station, it appears that the sleeper arrangement is probably as in my first diagram, with all sleepers laid perpendicular to the running lines.

 

However, looking at all commercially available single slip turnouts/kits, the sleepers always seem to be arranged perpendicular to the the centre line of the slip (not sure if I have described that very well?) as highlighted in red in my second diagram.

 

Do you know what the normal prototype practice would be? Or does it vary between regions/locations?

@MisterT

 

Hi Ed,

 

It's very difficult to judge the layout of timbers from photographs.

 

Almost invariably for diamond-crossings and slips, the centre part at least has the timbers arranged equalized to the centre-line, as your middle 8 red timbers. That's because the special chairs and fixings for the K-crossings must fit the rails at specified locations, and the only way to get timber under all of them is to equalize the timbering layout as shown.

 

Usually the equalized timbers will run at least as far as the blade tips in a slip, as in your middle 16 timbers, although some prototype designs vary.

 

Very often the equalized timbers continue through the V-crossings at each end too, as you have drawn red, and as in the Finetrax kits.

 

Beyond that, quite often the long timbers in the connecting turnouts are also skewed a little to match, which makes it easier to arrange the rail joints and fishplates. That will require some kit-bashing on the turnout kits.

 

Sometimes the turnouts would have equalized timbering all-through (as on the Peco bullhead turnouts), which makes it a lot easier to lay out the timbering for complex junctions.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[MisterT]

Hi Martin - Thanks for your quick reply! 🙂

 

I hadn't thought about the need for special chairs and fixings around the centre part of the turnout, so what you say about equalized timbers in that part of the slip makes complete sense - thanks!

And as you say, whatever I do about other timbers in the slip, or adjacent turnouts, will obviously require some degree of kit-bashing, or hand-building.

 

Thanks again,

Ed 🙂

[Donw]

if you want to match the prototype in a specific location you are probably going to either make your own or adapt the kits. Remember too in pregroup  days the sleepers on plain track were commonly 9ft rather than 8ft6in with the turnout timbers to suit. However for 00 I think 8ft 6in ones look more like the 9ft ones due to the undergauge track.

I think that the advantage of using the kits outweighs the benefits of laying your own unless you are like me and really enjoy building trackwork.

 

Don

Edited July 16, 2022 by Donw
replacing a disappeared word

[MisterT]

Hi Don - thanks for your reply 🙂

As you can probably guess, I am a complete novice at track building (and 2mm), hence why the advent of Wayne's kits is so appealing to someone like me. I hope to be able to use Wayne's kits for as many turnouts as possible on my planned layout ... mostly laid "asis" but maybe also adapting a few.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts,

Ed

Edited July 18, 2022 by MisterT
corrected spelling

[dasatcopthorne]

On 16/07/2022 at 20:25, Donw said:

if you want to match the prototype in a specific location you are probably going to either make your own or adapt the kits. Remember too in pregroup  days the sleepers on plain track were commonly 9ft rather than 8ft6in with the turnout timbers to suit. However for 00 I think 8ft 6in ones look more like the 9ft ones due to the undergauge track.

I think that the advantage of using the kits outweighs the benefits of laying your own unless you are like me and really enjoy building trackwork.

 

Don

 

Would this be a certain Don Ware please?

 

Dave.

[Donw]

On 18/07/2022 at 11:04, dasatcopthorne said:

 

Would this be a certain Don Ware please?

 

Dave.

 

Sorry not me

[Blandford1969]

Hi Wayne, I am getting ready to make an order, I'd rather use OO SF - do you have any idea when the diamond crossing and A5 turnout will be available in OO SF ?

 

Best wishes

Duncan

[Wayne Kinney]

16 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Hi Wayne, I am getting ready to make an order, I'd rather use OO SF - do you have any idea when the diamond crossing and A5 turnout will be available in OO SF ?

 

Best wishes

Duncan

Hi Duncan,

 

Should be over the next couple of months. I've not done much in the way of CAD work over the last 3 - 4 weeks as orders have been pretty high, but it's calming down this week so can get back to it. I do go on Holiday for a week from the 12th, so the webstore will be closed during that time.

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Duncan,

 

Should be over the next couple of months. I've not done much in the way of CAD work over the last 3 - 4 weeks as orders have been pretty high, but it's calming down this week so can get back to it. I do go on Holiday for a week from the 12th, so the webstore will be closed during that time.

A full week's holiday...? Your charging too much for your turnouts🤣 enjoy the break it will be a 'diversion' from day to day life....on your return 'knuckle' down with project's 

G

[Nick C]

I built my first double slip from one of Wayne's kits over the last couple of evenings - and I have to say it was much easier than I expected! I reckon about 90 minutes cutting & filing rails, and half an hours of soldering tie-bars and droppers. A good, sharp pair of Xuron rail cutters really helps...

[Blandford1969]

6 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Duncan,

 

Should be over the next couple of months. I've not done much in the way of CAD work over the last 3 - 4 weeks as orders have been pretty high, but it's calming down this week so can get back to it. I do go on Holiday for a week from the 12th, so the webstore will be closed during that time.

Thanks, something to look forwards to.  I will just have to start with turnouts . 

[NFWEM57]

21 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

I do go on Holiday for a week from the 12th,

Wayne, a very well deserved break indeed.

The update to the my test track much more involved than originally planned.  Complete rewire, current monitors (home design) for each scale/gauge, different inter board  track joins.  About to start laying 5 BF turnouts (3 x B7s, one crossing and one double slip) in a compact area.   Test track in a rather hot environment which delays work at present...! 

[hayfield]

Sorry entered in the wrong thread, please ignore

Edited August 5, 2022 by hayfield

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

 

Sorry to ask but how long is the standard Finetrax turnout? I am at the stage of planning the generic BLT and lengths etc. are rather useful to know. 

 

Thank you

 

StayCool

[BWsTrains]

6 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

Hi,

 

Sorry to ask but how long is the standard Finetrax turnout? I am at the stage of planning the generic BLT and lengths etc. are rather useful to know. 

 

Thank you

 

StayCool

 

Drop by their website, there are downloadable templates for all products.

[ikks]

On 04/08/2022 at 23:27, Nick C said:

I built my first double slip from one of Wayne's kits over the last couple of evenings - and I have to say it was much easier than I expected! I reckon about 90 minutes cutting & filing rails, and half an hours of soldering tie-bars and droppers. A good, sharp pair of Xuron rail cutters really helps...

Do you generally build your own track, or could a complete novice like me have a go?. My experience is limited to a couple of P4 points that did work but that was almost 40years ago. My vision and dexterity have deteriorated since but double slips have always fascinated me..........sad I know!!

 

Rgds.......Mike

[Nick C]

2 hours ago, ikks said:

Do you generally build your own track, or could a complete novice like me have a go?. My experience is limited to a couple of P4 points that did work but that was almost 40years ago. My vision and dexterity have deteriorated since but double slips have always fascinated me..........sad I know!!

 

Rgds.......Mike

I have built track before, but I wouldn't claim to be any kind of expert. I'd say they're really easy for a beginner, as long as you're reasonably confident with soldering to do the tie bars. Otherwise it's just a case of taking plenty of care over cutting the rails to length, especially the short bits, of which there are several on a slip! Even then, there's plenty of rail in the kit, so there's enough spare if you muck one or two up - especiallyif you're building more than one kit. I'd suggest building a normal point or two first before trying a slip, just to get the feel of how the kits work. No need to worry about gauges etc, the kit does all that for you. 

 

The instructions are on the website, so have a read through. It helps if you have access to an A3 printer for the templates - I used one at work, but I'd imagine any print shop would have one, or maybe even a library...

[Guest Jack Benson]

8 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Drop by their website, there are downloadable templates for all products.

Hi,

 

The Finetrax website is currently running in ‘minimum’ mode during their holiday break and the links to the .pdf files are not accessible, hence why I asked the question.

 

HOWEVER, a nice person PM’d with the answer, 288mm for OO, slightly longer for EM.

 

Thanks and StayCool

[BWsTrains]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

.......

The instructions are on the website, so have a read through. It helps if you have access to an A3 printer for the templates - I used one at work, but I'd imagine any print shop would have one, or maybe even a library...

 

I have a single slip kit and was also considering how to get the print done. But it turned out Wayne had set up the PDF template so it could be printed to A4, just spanning two pages which paste together seamlessly! Helpful and considerate! Can't confirm if this is true for other templates or if it is just a new feature on the slip documentation which has just been released.

 

 

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

The Finetrax website is currently running in ‘minimum’ mode during their holiday break and the links to the .pdf files are not accessible,

@Jack Benson

 

Hi Jack,

 

For the 00-SF and EM kits, the Finetrax kits exactly match the Templot B-7 templates. Templot is free, and it's dead easy to print a single template with only a few clicks. Templot will break it across A4 sheets if necessary with trimmable joins, you don't need an A3 printer.

 

How to print a single template from Templot in this video: https://85a.uk/templot/companion/your_first_printed_template.php

 

The Finetrax kits can be curved, and using Templot means if you wish you can print the template curved to whatever radius you want.

 

(For the Standard 00 kits, Wayne modified the Templot template to make the kit a few mm longer, but close enough for track planning.)

 

Martin.