Davington Light Railway

[ManofKent]

Has anyone modelled or got any information beyond the small book on the Davington Light Railway? I was pondering future small projects and remembered there was a line only a few minutes walk from me. I'm pretty sure the first few miles are completely built over, but there's probably signs of the line out towards Oare/Uplees.

[sir douglas]

the 2 Manning Wardles still survive in Brazil

 

 

 

[ManofKent]

10 hours ago, sir douglas said:

the 2 Manning Wardles still survive in Brazil

Thanks I've not seen those photos before - I wonder what happened to the third.

I know the Vale of Rheidol has one of the Ruston Proctor Paraffin engines from Davington.

[sir douglas]

this is from an online database of leeds built loco http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/locolist.asp

 

In the photos above, the grey one is No3 and the Black No2, the green ticks indicate survivors, so No1 was most likely scrapped, whether this was from Davington or in Brazil i don't know

Edited December 12, 2020 by sir douglas

[009 micro modeller]

The Middleton Press Kent Narrow Gauge book, which has a brief section on Davington, implies that all three were exported to Brazil, so the missing one could have been scrapped there. Some of the wagons apparently ended up on the Rye and Camber Tramway: https://web.archive.org/web/20071020013208/http://www.hfstephens-museum.org.uk/pages/topics/camber_tram/camber_tram_wagons.htm

[ManofKent]

Thanks both. Over Christmas I'll attempt to follow the line as much as possible - I think there's the signs of an old cutting and out at Uplees signs of where the track ran - there's certainly the foundations of some of the gunpowder work buildings.

[009 micro modeller]

13 minutes ago, ManofKent said:

Thanks both. Over Christmas I'll attempt to follow the line as much as possible - I think there's the signs of an old cutting and out at Uplees signs of where the track ran - there's certainly the foundations of some of the gunpowder work buildings.

 

I’d be interested to see any photos you take of any remains. I wouldn’t have thought there would be much left, given that it closed a century ago and was only open for about two years.

[ManofKent]

10 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I’d be interested to see any photos you take of any remains. I wouldn’t have thought there would be much left, given that it closed a century ago and was only open for about two years.

There won't be at the Davington end as it's been built up a little over the century. Oare hasn't been heavily developed and the stretch between Oare and Uplees is farmland. At Uplees there might be signs of a trackbed - (it's windswept marsh and largely nature reserve).

[doilum]

On 11/12/2020 at 19:41, ManofKent said:

Has anyone modelled or got any information beyond the small book on the Davington Light Railway? I was pondering future small projects and remembered there was a line only a few minutes walk from me. I'm pretty sure the first few miles are completely built over, but there's probably signs of the line out towards Oare/Uplees.

Just curious. Could you give a three line account of a railway I haven't heard of before? 

Sorry brain now engaged !  Excellent Wikipedia account.

Edited December 13, 2020 by doilum
Additional information

[ManofKent]

1 hour ago, doilum said:

Just curious. Could you give a three line account of a railway I haven't heard of before? 

Sorry brain now engaged !  Excellent Wikipedia account.

I think being essentially a military railway during World I and only operating for three years little was recorded. Uplees/Harty Ferry is saltmarsh and even today with a short seawall along the Swale it is still very boggy in winter - walking out there or transporting goods across the marsh wouldn't have been pleasant.

[doilum]

27 minutes ago, ManofKent said:

I think being essentially a military railway during World I and only operating for three years little was recorded. Uplees/Harty Ferry is saltmarsh and even today with a short seawall along the Swale it is still very boggy in winter - walking out there or transporting goods across the marsh wouldn't have been pleasant.

Deserves to be modelled.

[009 micro modeller]

On 12/12/2020 at 19:21, ManofKent said:

There won't be at the Davington end as it's been built up a little over the century. Oare hasn't been heavily developed and the stretch between Oare and Uplees is farmland. At Uplees there might be signs of a trackbed - (it's windswept marsh and largely nature reserve).

 

Having had another look at the Middleton Press book, the section on Brett’s Faversham (gravel pit railway, somewhat later than the Davington line) suggests (on map VIII; they use a 1938 map but draw a dashed line to indicate the military line’s route) that one of the 2ft gauge gravel pit railways reused the trackbed of the metre gauge line from a tunnel under the road (made for the gravel line, apparently separate from an earlier DLR tunnel) just north of Oare to a point near Uplees (where a gravel pit served by the later line is shown). This would also explain why this section of the DLR trackbed seems better defined on modern aerial views than the rest of it (i.e. much more extensive and more recent use).

 

Edit: I suppose there won’t be a map showing the metre gauge line itself due to its short life and the potential security issues that this would create. But I am intrigued by this apparent reuse of the formation by the later gravel pit line.

Edited December 13, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[009 micro modeller]

3 minutes ago, doilum said:

Deserves to be modelled.

 

I wonder what scale/gauge combination would work though? It’s metre gauge, but also British (H0m/00n3, for instance).

[doilum]

9 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I wonder what scale/gauge combination would work though? It’s metre gauge, but also British (H0m/00n3, for instance).

5mm scale on 16.5 or 6mm on 18.83 gauge?

Edited December 13, 2020 by doilum
Additional information

[ManofKent]

7 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I wonder what scale/gauge combination would work though? It’s metre gauge, but also British (H0m/00n3, for instance).

Someone has had a go at scratchbuilding one of the Manning Wardles 16mm scale 45 Gauge - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQs0dmT--1A but not the line.

 

 

[ManofKent]

7 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Having had another look at the Middleton Press book, the section on Brett’s Faversham (gravel pit railway, somewhat later than the Davington line) suggests (on map VIII; they use a 1938 map but draw a dashed line to indicate the military line’s route) that one of the 2ft gauge gravel pit railways reused the trackbed of the metre gauge line from a tunnel under the road (made for the gravel line, apparently separate from an earlier DLR tunnel) just north of Oare to a point near Uplees (where a gravel pit served by the later line is shown). This would also explain why this section of the DLR trackbed seems better defined on modern aerial views than the rest of it (i.e. much more extensive and more recent use).

 

Edit: I suppose there won’t be a map showing the metre gauge line itself due to its short life and the potential security issues that this would create. But I am intrigued by this apparent reuse of the formation by the later gravel pit line.

I'm waiting for my copy of the Middleton Press book to arrive through the post. I don't know much about the Bretts line. The Gravel pit area is all fenced off as they are building a new housing development - 'Faversham Lakes' between Davington and Oare. The Bretts Gravel line at Sturry (15ish miles away) was long disused but still partially in place in the late 70's when I was a youngster.

[sir douglas]

is OOn3, 12mm gauge?

Edited December 14, 2020 by sir douglas

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, sir douglas said:

is OOn3, 12mm gauge?

 

Yes.

[009 micro modeller]

8 hours ago, ManofKent said:

I'm waiting for my copy of the Middleton Press book to arrive through the post. I don't know much about the Bretts line. The Gravel pit area is all fenced off as they are building a new housing development - 'Faversham Lakes' between Davington and Oare. The Bretts Gravel line at Sturry (15ish miles away) was long disused but still partially in place in the late 70's when I was a youngster.

 

I’m not sure the Middleton Press book will tell you much about the Davington line that you can’t get from other sources. However it does have the map mentioned, a photo of the terminus and another photo of one of the locos in Brazil.

[ManofKent]

23 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I’m not sure the Middleton Press book will tell you much about the Davington line that you can’t get from other sources. However it does have the map mentioned, a photo of the terminus and another photo of one of the locos in Brazil.

Nice books to have anyway (I've got a few on local branchlines).

 

I'm surprised how little  H0m / OOn3 locos available with the gauge being widely used across Ireland and of course IOM. 

[009 micro modeller]

27 minutes ago, ManofKent said:

I'm surprised how little  H0m / OOn3 locos available with the gauge being widely used across Ireland and of course IOM. 

 

I think there’s a reasonable amount of Continental H0m available, although it tends to be larger and more modern stock so not especially suited to this. The lack of 00n3 RTR (and relative lack of kits compared with 009) probably reflects the lack of RTR in British TT and until recently 009. There was apparently a time when 00n3 was more widely-used by new entrants to 4mm NG (when Triang TT was available and before N gauge/Eggerbahn etc. was widely available). Nowadays, with N gauge chassis and more recently modern 009 RTR, people tend to go for 009, and with lots of prototype NG being around 2ft gauge this is often the correct option anyway. I did see someone (might have been elsewhere on RMWeb) who was planning to model the former Crich mineral line (I think) in ‘00m’ (as distinct from H0m/00n3 - they were actually going to construct special 13.12mm gauge finescale track) but I don’t know how far this got. Moving to British H0 and using H0m is another option, except 12mm in H0 is actually closer to 3’ 6” so it might not be worth it.

[ManofKent]

21 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I think there’s a reasonable amount of Continental H0m available, although it tends to be larger and more modern stock so not especially suited to this. The lack of 00n3 RTR (and relative lack of kits compared with 009) probably reflects the lack of RTR in British TT and until recently 009. There was apparently a time when 00n3 was more widely-used by new entrants to 4mm NG (when Triang TT was available and before N gauge/Eggerbahn etc. was widely available). Nowadays, with N gauge chassis and more recently modern 009 RTR, people tend to go for 009, and with lots of prototype NG being around 2ft gauge this is often the correct option anyway. I did see someone (might have been elsewhere on RMWeb) who was planning to model the former Crich mineral line (I think) in ‘00m’ (as distinct from H0m/00n3 - they were actually going to construct special 13.12mm gauge finescale track) but I don’t know how far this got. Moving to British H0 and using H0m is another option, except 12mm in H0 is actually closer to 3’ 6” so it might not be worth it.

 

There are a couple of body kit's for the Ruston Proctor Paraffin engines, but  either 009 or O9. I suppose the 009 one might be adaptable to a 12mm chassis, I don't know how much the real bodies differed across the gauges they were produced for - I wouldn't have thought much. If (and it's only a ponder at the moment, my 00 micro-layout is barely started)  kit-bashing a small diesel might be within my abilities, whilst scratch building one of the Manning Wardles definitely isn't.

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, ManofKent said:

 

There are a couple of body kit's for the Ruston Proctor Paraffin engines, but  either 009 or O9. I suppose the 009 one might be adaptable to a 12mm chassis, I don't know how much the real bodies differed across the gauges they were produced for - I wouldn't have thought much. If (and it's only a ponder at the moment, my 00 micro-layout is barely started)  kit-bashing a small diesel might be within my abilities, whilst scratch building one of the Manning Wardles definitely isn't.

 

I think the problem might be that they are very small compared to other metre gauge stock (but about the same size as normal 2ft gauge stock). A similar effect can be seen with the 3ft gauge granite quarry railway at Penmaenmawr in Wales - the Ruston diesels and Hunslet and De Winton steam locos were about the same size as those built for 2ft gauge slate quarry railways nearby, just the gauge was wider.

 

 I understand from a quick look online that the internal rail system at the factories was pre-WW1 with the Davington Light Railway main line added later - is this correct or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[ManofKent]

31 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I think the problem might be that they are very small compared to other metre gauge stock (but about the same size as normal 2ft gauge stock). A similar effect can be seen with the 3ft gauge granite quarry railway at Penmaenmawr in Wales - the Ruston diesels and Hunslet and De Winton steam locos were about the same size as those built for 2ft gauge slate quarry railways nearby, just the gauge was wider.

 

 I understand from a quick look online that the internal rail system at the factories was pre-WW1 with the Davington Light Railway main line added later - is this correct or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

Thanks - If I do go ahead I might have a look at the German manufacturers to see if they do any tiny TT models - I suspect motor size would be an issue on the old Triang bodies.

 

Yes there was an existing tramway system (no idea whether this was also 3ft/mtr gauge - would it be odd to use a different gauge on the new Railway which although mainly for workers also brought supplies?) at the guncotton works (not sure when it was constructed, the guncotton works was opened late 1870's - much later than Faversham's  and Oare's Gunpowder works.

[ManofKent]

Hmm Beckmann did a few TT diesels, but their 040's would be over twice as long as the Ruston Proctor...