YORK for York Show 2023 and beyond

[Rosedale]

I last looked at your thread ages ago and didn't view it in detail. But with a spare hour or so this morning I have gone through the whole thread and am left mesmerised and incredibly impressed, it's brilliant! I have spent a lot of time over the years travelling through York Station (University, work, then social) and I still get a sense of wonder every time I walk past the NER slotted post signal to the concourse. Your model Peter has exactly recreated the scene and that sense of awe. I saw it at Leeds (the mock-up?) last year and the progress since is amazing and reflects a lot of very hard work, design and assembly, plus a lot of thought throughout. And I would add that on a S-Scale Zoom meeting a coupe of weeks ago some of the lads were swooning having seen it at Larkrail. So, a huge well done for this awesome and ground-breaking (like all your layouts) project. If I wore a hat I would doff it in your direction!!   

[kirmies]

On 10/08/2022 at 13:04, Rosedale said:

I last looked at your thread ages ago and didn't view it in detail. But with a spare hour or so this morning I have gone through the whole thread and am left mesmerised and incredibly impressed, it's brilliant! I have spent a lot of time over the years travelling through York Station (University, work, then social) and I still get a sense of wonder every time I walk past the NER slotted post signal to the concourse. Your model Peter has exactly recreated the scene and that sense of awe. I saw it at Leeds (the mock-up?) last year and the progress since is amazing and reflects a lot of very hard work, design and assembly, plus a lot of thought throughout. And I would add that on a S-Scale Zoom meeting a coupe of weeks ago some of the lads were swooning having seen it at Larkrail. So, a huge well done for this awesome and ground-breaking (like all your layouts) project. If I wore a hat I would doff it in your direction!!   

Thanks for the kind words! Larkrail gave me the impetus to get on with it. I'd spent the weeks leading up to it frantically getting it to what I considered a presentable state and, as a consequence, could only see what was wrong.

All the many positive comments on the day and since have helped me see it through different eyes and, whilst there is much still to do, I'm incredibly pleased with the progress so far and how well my initial concept is turning out!

Thanks again!

[kirmies]

At Larkrail the other week someone made the suggestion of putting a row of coaches outside the backwall of the roof to form a '3D backscene'. Unfortunately, I can't remember who it was but it was a great idea so THANK YOU: it works brilliantly!

This is just a mock up at the moment of what it can and will look like using Dapol Gresley coach bodies:

I'm even going to extend the idea and include a tender body at one end to suggest that it really is a train and not just a load of coach bodies!

Note that these photos do show up rather cruelly some of the work still to do e.g. bedding the base of the backwall down on the platform properly, making sure all the columns are vertical etc.etc. This will all happen when I take the roof off one more time to finish and ballast the trackwork, detail and paint the platforms etc. 

[kirmies]

It's been nearly a month since my last post but much has been happening. One is trying to crack the lighting under the roof. I've used LED strips and was pleased with the result they produced on their own but not 100% satisfied. So now I'm in the process of fitting prismatic diffusers - like the stuff used, for example, on office and shop ceiling lights.

The upper picture shows the lighting effect produced by the LED strips on their own and the lower one with the diffusers in place. To my eye the lower version is a considerable improvement:

• The shadow on the platform under the lengthways columns between the pillars has gone
• As has the strip of light on the platform in the foreground
• The rear wall is lit MUCH better and
• If anything, below the footplate on the loco (always a hard thing to light properly) is more visible

Result!

[kirmies]

Sorting out the roof lighting part 2:

 

As I said in the previous post, I was very pleased with the improvement the prismatic diffusers produced. BUT, the more I looked at them the more I thought I could do better:

1. The wooden bars spread along the roof to support the diffuser sheet were rather obvious:
2. The prismatic nature of the diffuser was also really quite obvious (above photo exposure adjusted to show this):

I'd thought all along that the diffusers on their own might not be enough and had found some 0.25mm frosted clear PVC sheet on the 4D Model Shop website. For anyone who's not come across this site, it's primarily designed for architectural model builders. This means that, whilst it doesn't have the range of model railway focused items that say Squires or Eileen's Emporium stocks, it does keep an interesting range of other things including this stuff.

So, what if I put a layer of the frosted sheet on top of the roof lights i.e. between the roof and the diffuser?

Considerable improvement:

• The wooden bars have disappeared
• As the prismatic diffuser
• AND, if anything, the lighting is even better than before.

The only problem now is that the two layers between the LED strip and the layout do a good job of attenuating the light level to the point that I now wondered if it was brightly enough lit.

 

Okay, let's try the clear frosted sheet WITHOUT the diffuser:

• The lighting effect is every bit as good as it was before and
• If anything, the light level is brighter than it was with just the diffuser sheet.

So, I've moved from 'result' to 'better result'!

 

The fact that it took me several days modelling time to make the supports for the diffuser sheet, cut it to size etc. etc. could now be seen as a pretty annoying waste of time but I tend to look on it as all part of the development process: it often takes several attempts to reach a satisfactory result and I'm sure the diffuser sheet which is now spare will come in for another project sometime!

[Andy Ross]

I think I know we’re it might come in. 

[kirmies]

14 hours ago, Trams and Locos said:

I think I know we’re it might come in. 

Great minds think alike!

[kirmies]

One of the other things that I've been getting on with has been the awnings for the open air platforms. These will only be viewable through the ends of the roof but they form an important part of the view:

Drawing the awnings up for etching was made considerably easier by having a 1930s drawing from the Network Rail archive but still took quite some time. This morning the first sheet of etches arrived:

As ever, all I really want to do is put it in a frame, hang it on the wall and look at it in wonder - how did I manage that? But this wouldn't help the layout to progress so, this afternoon, the first set of pieces have been cut out and now it's easier to see how it will all fit together:

 

The lateral pieces slot into the lengthways ones, and then roof and valence pieces will be added which should make the whole thing fairly rigid. I'm very grateful to my good mate Andy Ross (aka Trams and Locos) for taking some time off from drawing up bits and pieces for his Hunslet layout to draw and 3D print the columns:

As you can see, like all things 2FS, they are pretty small but have come out exceptionally well. The piece of 1.0mm wire going through the one on the left will solder into a slot in the awning lattice at one end and pass through the baseboard for fixing below at the other.

This all sounds and looks great but the real test will be seeing if it fits together as planned!

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by kirmies
correcting spelling mistokes

[Simon D.]

A question about the LEDs you use.  What colour light are you using?  I'm sure that cool white will bring out all the exquisite detail, but would warm white give the illusion of summer afternoon shafts of sunlight beaming down onto platforms which is such a part of our collective imagination for railway stations?

[kirmies]

Hi Simon,

 

What I'm using at the moment is described as 'natural white' which, I think, is roughly a 50/50 mix of warm and cool white. To my eye it looks like a pretty good approximation to the light you get in the real station. It'll be easier to tell once more of the model is painted/weathered at which point I may well alter the lighting a bit.

 

As important to me is the largely shadowless nature of the light under the roof which the frosted clear plastic I'm now using on the skylights seems to capture well.

[kirmies]

Progress has been made assembling the first awning:

• First piece of good news - it all slots together as planned;
• Second piece of good news: it fits the curve of the platform pretty accurately

• And, what's more, it very much looks the part:

Note: this is very much a trail fit (to make sure it actually does fit) so the holes in the platform/baseboard the brass rod goes through need adjustment so the all the columns are vertical and there's nothing currently holding the whole assembly down so, in places, it's not siting flush. 

But overall...........not bad!!

[Simon D.]

Many thanks for the swift reply.  Very useful info about natural white.

 

Really looking forward to seeing this for real one day.  

[VRBroadgauge]

I talked to a friend of mine who does lighting for theatres. He suggested a line of  the golden LED's with a wash of a line of white LED's to bring out the details. He also suggested mounting them with barn doors so that the lighting can be both directional and adjustable.

 

I'm enjoying your pictures immensely. I take it you're getting your etches from PPD. I trust you're not getting a slap every time you send them some artwork. Some of mine has been questionable (I like to push the envelope) so I've had to give them the disclaimer that if it fails it's due to my design. I've done a small train shed of St Alban's Abbey for a friend but nothing as grand as this.

 

I like that you're thinking big.

 

 

[kirmies]

6 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

I talked to a friend of mine who does lighting for theatres. He suggested a line of  the golden LED's with a wash of a line of white LED's to bring out the details. He also suggested mounting them with barn doors so that the lighting can be both directional and adjustable.

 

I'm enjoying your pictures immensely. I take it you're getting your etches from PPD. I trust you're not getting a slap every time you send them some artwork. Some of mine has been questionable (I like to push the envelope) so I've had to give them the disclaimer that if it fails it's due to my design. I've done a small train shed of St Alban's Abbey for a friend but nothing as grand as this.

 

I like that you're thinking big.

 

 

I do use PPD for etching and find them excellent. If you follow their guidelines for minimum dimensions (basically no linear dimension less than 1.2x the metal thickness) you won't go far wrong. If you stray below that not only will they ask you to take responsibility for anything that doesn't come out as planned but also those pieces will be VERY delicate. Better to use thinner metal - I've been experimenting recently with getting some stuff (e.g. window frames) etched in stainless steel which is a much stronger metal than brass or nickel and so thinner sheet can be used giving (following the 1.2x thickness mantra) finer detail. If sand blasted and etch primed, paint sticks to it well enough.

Although custom etching is not cheap, it makes so many things (like the awnings and, indeed, the station roof itself) SO much easier and I find PPD usually deliver sooner than their estimated lead time (usual disclaimers apply!).

[Caley Jim]

I too now use PPD exclusively and can endorse @kirmies comments regarding quality and service.  I have frequently gone down to 0.25mm wide parts (on 0.25mm n/s) and have, up until now, got away with it.  Thinner than that has disappeared.  The last etch I had from them, however, seemed to have got slightly 'over-cooked' and some parts which had etched OK previously were either too fragile or had gone completely.  Just shows that etching is not an exact science.  You pays your money and takes your chance.

 

Great work on the canopies. Peter!

 

Jim

[VRBroadgauge]

I've gotten great service from PPD. Sometimes there's things that have to push the envelope. I've done this a few times and have always received the usual fine results. There have been over 50 wagons built from my designs and etched by PPD to date.

It must be an Australian thing. A friend of mine also uses them and got a slap until he used the disclaimer. :)

The use of stainless for rods is something that I'll probably pursue. I'm still coming to grips with my locomotive designs. Walschaerts gear has been a bit of a challenge but I'm nearly there.

[CF MRC]

Stainless steel obviously doesn’t chemically blacken, when used for valve gear. However heating it in a flame will blacken it very effectively.

 

Tim

[kirmies]

It's been over a month since I last posted here but work continues just not very exciting or photogenic work! Mostly baseboard building and track laying. All the boards are now completed, and track is laid on most of them.:

Easitrak is an easy and obvious choice for the track but how to deal with track and baseboard joints? Reference to the excellent 2mm Association book 'Track: how it works and how to build it' revealed yet another hitherto unknow to me Association product: milled PCB sleeper units. These consist of 10 sleepers on a milled PCB base. Cutting these up, I've used 2 sleepers worth for track joints and 3 sleepers worth either side of each baseboard joint in both cases held down with some ancient brass track pins of unknown origin:

 

N.B. photos taken BEFORE the rails were soldered to the PCB sleeper bases!

I've always been rather 'belt and braces' when it comes to wiring preferring TWO droppers attached to each length of rail. The principle here is: should one fail there's another one still there. This has worked well on my previous 2 exhibition layouts with not a single section of track losing power in over 60 shows! It does, however, lead to rather a large number of droppers potentially making wiring up seem a daunting prospect:

However, with DCC only needing 2 buss bars and the use of self-adhesive copper tape for those, it doesn't take long to convert this chaos into something approaching order:

[john new]

Now added to the 2023 Show's layouts list with apologies for the earlier omission. See https://yorkshow.org.uk/layouts-2023/ 

[kirmies]

FIRST STOPPING TRAIN AT YORK:

 

Finally, after several weeks of tracklaying and wiring then testing and adjusting, the first train through YORK has finally been caught on film. The roof is removed at the moment to allow easy access to the track and the footbridge and buildings are temporarily postioned to give context but this is DEFINITE progress!!

[kirmies]

Work carries on gradually detailing the station area. Platform walls have been brick lined (about 60 actual feet of platform edging cut on the Silhouette cutter) and the walkway between the centre tracks added. This appears on photos until at least the 1950s but I'm not entirely sure what it was used for - if anyone knows please shout!

Most recently the epic job that is ballasting:

A really useful tool was one I made to a design in the excellent 2mm Association book 'TRACK: how it works and how to model it' (p96-97). It can be seen just in front of the margarine tub (which has the ballast in it). Basically it's a very soft bristled brush mounted in a block of wood and its purpose is to brush the ballast off the top of the sleepers into the gaps between them. It's adjustable (as the setting of the brush height is pretty critical for effective working) and once set up works brilliantly. There is still the need to go along with a small brush to move the last few grains but it quickly and efficiently sweeps a good 95% of the ballast to where it needs to be.

Friday was gluing day using the time honoured mist spray with water (with detergent to allow good wetting) and then drip in a 50/50 mix of PVA and water (again with detergent to promote flow into all areas). After 3 days to dry thoroughly, this morning was the crunch moment: out with the vacuum to see how much of it has actually stuck. Answer: virtually all of it:

Barely half a teaspoonful collected by the vacuum. So the result (whilst needing considerable weathering down) is excellent:

RESULT!!

 

[kirmies]

It occurred to me a while ago that this layout has a huge area of platform surface which means I'm going to need large quantities of platform furniture. Over the last couple of weeks I've been assembling a first batch, all custom etched:

• 26 NER platform benches
• 20 NER porters' trolleys
• 2 NER departure boards
• 2 LNER ticket collectors' booths
• Some LNER barrier fencing for the station entrance
• And, obviously, a partridge in a pear tree (though this is hard to see as it is only there for comic effect)

In common with all things 2mm, they are VERY, VERY small! Here they all are ready for priming:

MERRY CHRISTMAS ONE AND ALL!!

[Barry O]

Well done Pete.. a lot of work but very necessary.

 

Baz

[kirmies]

Progress is being made on several fronts simultaneously: as well as the platform furniture and the weathering of the ballasted track and platform surfaces, I've been fitting the window frames to the entrance buildings and back wall.

 

As discussed in a previous post, these were etched in 0.1mm (approx. 4 thou) stainless steel. This brings the minimum 'permissible' dimension down from 0.3mm for my usual 0.25mm thick nickel silver to 0.18mm enabling the glazing bars to be rather nearer to scale. The reason for using stainless is that it's much harder than nickel: window frames made from 0.1mm N/S would, I suspect, be almost impossibly flimsy. As it is, the stainless ones are pretty fragile so my idea of getting lots of spares etched proved both worthwhile and necessary. 

But, now they're in place, I think the results speak for themselves:

I can't think of another way to get these so fine and so consistent so I'm well pleased!

[kirmies]

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

It is exactly two years since I started this thread and a huge amount has been achieved on YORK in that time. Back in early 2021 I was convinced I would have the layout finished and ready for the 2022 York Show. Quite why I thought this was ever possible I'm not sure but it was never going to happen and, as history proceeded to record, the 2022 York Show didn't happen anyway!

 

Now with around 100 days to go to the opening of the 2023 York Show I am quietly confident that YORK, in some vaguely complete looking form, will be there although I'm sure there are many as yet unforeseen hurdles to get over.

 

In the meantime I'd like to thank everyone for their positive and encouraging comments about the layout's progress both on this thread and elsewhere: it has been a great help especially when the going gets tough which it has on various occasions.

 

So, THANK YOU!

 

Keep that positive energy coming - over the next 3 months or so I've a feeling I'm going to need it!

 

Meanwhile, the latest thing to hit the workbench is a batch or around 50 Modelu figures:

I've been aware of Alan's great work with 3D scanner and printer for ages but this is the first time I've come up close to some of his figures and they are breathtaking in their detail and realism even at this small scale (craft knife included in the photo to show just how small they are). I find them slightly unnervingly real but then....they are scans of real people and all previous 'model people' have been sculpted by somebody (some rather more successfully than others). Even a scant knowledge of art history tells you that making a sculpture of the human form is VERY difficult so it's no great surprise that previous attempts at castings/mouldings to populate our layouts have had varying degrees of success.

 

The problem now is how to paint them and I tend to think, in this diminutive scale, the secret is subtle washes of colour to bring out the inherent detail in the models rather than any attempt to paint them 'accurately' - they look pretty convincing to me even in the grey primer stage seen here.

 

I'll let you know how I get on and, once again......

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR!