New range of simple to assemble 00/EM gauge pointwork kits - EM B7 Prototype - First Look

[NFWEM57]

Wayne Kinney of British Finescale kindly sent me the latest prototype of his new range of easy build turnouts to assemble and test, an EM gauge Left Hand B7.  As before, no instructions.  A number of alternations and improvements have been made based on feedback about the original OO gauge B7 prototype and assembly has been much simplified.  Taking my time and avoiding my error with the first prototype, assembly only took around an hour this afternoon.  The prototype will be installed on my test track in the next few days for live testing.  But, for now, a few pictures of the kit and the assembled B7 including a picture of the EMGS B6 and the BF B7 alongside each other.  It compares really well, a game changer indeed.

    

 

    

 

 

 

Patrick

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by NFWEM57
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[Jeff Smith]

Comparison with the Peco product is interesting, I'm surprised there hasn't been more reaction so far.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Jeff Smith

[gordon s]

Looks good, but just one minor comment that the gap between the switch rails and the common crossing doesn’t appear to be electrically isolated. Easily fixed, but I’d like to see a definite gap, particularly once the temperatures start to rise.

 

Edit: Just looked at the pics again and is there a difference in the blades between the B6 and B7?

 

The B7 blades appear one piece and the B6 loose heeled......Is that correct or has the design been updated?

Edited January 16, 2021 by gordon s

[NFWEM57]

5 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Looks good, but just one minor comment that the gap between the switch rails and the common crossing doesn’t appear to be electrically isolated. Easily fixed, but I’d like to see a definite gap, particularly once the temperatures start to rise.

Hi,

 

Thank you for your observation.  Not a fault of the product as the gap is set by the assembler.  You could have more if you wished when assembling, I chose 0.25mm.

 

Patrick

[NFWEM57]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Comparison with the Peco product is interesting, I'm surprised there hasn't been more reaction so far.

 

it is dinner time..!  I am sure it will follow...!

[hayfield]

Observation rather than a criticism. In the Y timber position on the common crossing I believe that there should be a crossing chair rather than two chopped down L1 chairs, strangely Peco have added an extra block chair is what would be an Z position (if this existed)

 

Otherwise looking very good

 

To answer Gordons observation if the builder used either an Exactoscale or C&L functional plastic fishplate (H section) this would not only add extra detail but form an electrical isolation

 

[martin_wynne]

25 minutes ago, gordon s said:

The B7 blades appear one piece and the B6 loose heeled......Is that correct or has the design been updated?

 

 

Hi Gordon,

 

The B-6 is produced by Peco for the EMGS, ready-to-lay. Shown for comparison.

 

The B-7 is produced as a FinetraX kit by Wayne Kinney. See this topic for more info: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/160234-new-range-of-simple-to-assemble-00em-gauge-pointwork-kits/

 

Martin.

[gordon s]

Thanks Martin, that now makes sense.......I misunderstood the EMGS bit.....

 

Like John, I certainly don’t want any comments to be construed as criticism, so try to tread carefully. I really want these to succeed as I have nothing but admiration for Wayne rising to this challenge and providing the product we have all waited for. Please take any comment as constructive/informative and certainly not critical.

 

I assume both blades are isolated from each other and the frog switched to match polarity of the route. Is there any danger at all of a short from the back of any wheels at the close gap before the crossing? I tend to extend the crossing out to the ends of the check rail and make the cut further out to completely eliminate any risk of short at all.

 

 

[martin_wynne]

Looking great!

 

There is obviously a pre-production issue with the Y chair:

 

 

Also I suggest a moulded upstand from the base web at F to preserve the isolation gap. It doesn't need to be the full rail height. Easily cut off by those who prefer to use epoxy filler.

 

cheers,

 

Martin. 

[martin_wynne]

23 minutes ago, gordon s said:

I assume both blades are isolated from each other and the frog switched to match polarity of the route. Is there any danger at all of a short from the back of any wheels at the close gap before the crossing? I tend to extend the crossing out to the ends of the check rail and make the cut further out to completely eliminate any risk of short at all.

 

 

Hi Gordon,

 

That's an issue with the Peco product in both 00 and EM, but Wayne's cast crossing is fine. No shorting problem at all.

 

If he extended it, he would need to make separate handed left and right crossings, and separate ones again for the diamonds and slips. And it would be much more difficult to curve the kits. He has got the design just right (or will have, when he removes the infill in the back of the vee splice -- see previous discussion. I have a bee in my bonnet about that ) .

 

What I especially like is the correct blunt nose on the vee in exactly the correct position on the timber, the spacer blocks between the rails, and the smooth prototypical knuckle bend radius in the wing rail instead of a sharp kink. I never thought to see such things in a commercial product. He has obviously been and looked at the prototype!

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited January 16, 2021 by martin_wynne

[martin_wynne]

32 minutes ago, hayfield said:

To answer Gordons observation if the builder used either an Exactoscale or C&L functional plastic fishplate (H section) this would not only add extra detail but form an electrical isolation

 

Hi John,

 

The snag with that is there isn't a prototype fishplate at that position. It would look very odd so close to the knuckle.

 

I suggest most builders will use some sort of filler such as epoxy to preserve the isolation, and profile it to match the rail once set.

 

Dummy fishplates can then be added at the proper prototype position for the wing-rail front (for a B-7 in line with the end of the check rails).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Robert Shrives]

This does look very good again and well built by the look of the pics . I also extend thanks to Wayne for investing his Christmas money from last year in this big project.  While I do dabble in N quite a lot it good to see 4mm  benefiting from the touch of Wayne.   I am certain the demand will grow quickly.  I am just hopeful that these skills can be sprinkled on a 21mm gauge version for the increasing awareness of the Irish scene. A place where rtr stock is growing with clearances and designed in 21mm capability but rtr track will be beyond the market for a very long (ever) time.  These points answer the long felt want department perfectly.  I am sure I will buy some of these once the orders are open.  Please keep the updates coming !

[NFWEM57]

7 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

Looking great!

 

There is obviously a pre-production issue with the Y chair:

 

 

Also I suggest a moulded upstand from the base web at F to preserve the isolation gap. It doesn't need to be the full rail height. Easily cut off by those who prefer to use epoxy filler.

 

cheers,

 

Martin. 

Hi Martin,

 

That might be the CA I used there unless the chair is incorrect?

 

Patrick

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

12 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

Also I suggest a moulded upstand from the base web at F to preserve the isolation gap. It doesn't need to be the full rail height. Easily cut off by those who prefer to use epoxy filler.

 

If the upstand was made oversize in all dimensions, it could then be trimmed to fit the rail profile saving the use of, messy in my hands at least, epoxy filler or similar?

 

Mike.

[KeithHC]

Or what about a small 3D printed cap that covers the bottom of the rail. This could be glued to the end of the blades then as the rail expands or shrinks it moves with the blade. I no its non prototype but for us mortals that have trouble building turnouts it might be a saver.

 

Keith

[martin_wynne]

57 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

If the upstand was made oversize in all dimensions, it could then be trimmed to fit the rail profile saving the use of, messy in my hands at least, epoxy filler or similar?

 

Hi Mike,

 

If it's taller than the top of the chairs it will increase 3D print time and hence the cost. Over to Wayne.

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi John,

 

The snag with that is there isn't a prototype fishplate at that position. It would look very odd so close to the knuckle.

 

I suggest most builders will use some sort of filler such as epoxy to preserve the isolation, and profile it to match the rail once set.

 

Dummy fishplates can then be added at the proper prototype position for the wing-rail front (for a B-7 in line with the end of the check rails).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Martin

 

This is an area where several folk will have firm views on, I understand the gap is in the wrong position if talking prototypically. But given that these kits are supposed to be for those who want tan easy to build kit, the least complicated the better. Secondly you are introducing a second join two timbers further on, I believe many of those who buy these kits will not want to fill the gap and disguise it

 

Whilst prototypically its not correct, (other compromises have been made) it does provide a simple and (in my opinion) visually pleasing method of solving a potential electrical issue

 

 

These are the Exactoscale H section plastic fishplates, C&L now produce a similar product

 

 

A very simple method, which is quick and easy to use, both aligns the rail and electrically separates  both rails and in my opinion look superb, I accept its in the wrong position, but short of having a longer common crossing it is as said a very quick and easy solution 

[Enterprisingwestern]

16 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Mike,

 

If it's taller than the top of the chairs it will increase 3D print time and hence the cost. Over to Wayne.

 

Martin.

 

Still thinking aloud!

Apologies for the questions, but I've only ever built copperclad points and I fancy these.

It could be cut off and a T section of plasticard or similar glued to the webbing on the underneath of the rail?

 

Mike.

[Harlequin]

 

22 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Mike,

 

If it's taller than the top of the chairs it will increase 3D print time and hence the cost. Over to Wayne.

 

Martin.

 

How about leaving a small hole in the base and supplying a suitably shaped upstand that plugs into the hole as an option?

 

It definitely needs some physical isolating barrier and the idea of daubing epoxy in that area is not appealing. That could make a neat build very messy, very quickly!

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Harlequin

[martin_wynne]

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Secondly you are introducing a second join two timbers further on

 

Hi John,

 

No, just dummy fishplates glued to the side of the rail.

 

Surely the reason folks will be choosing these over Peco is for prototypical realism?

 

Alternatively, for more experienced track builders, if an actual joint was made at the correct location, the short bit of rail could be soldered to the cast crossing.

 

Martin.

[Captain Kernow]

6 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

It definitely needs some physical isolating barrier and the idea of daubing epoxy in that area is not appealing. That could make a neat build very messy, very quickly!

Do the plastic sleepers take MekPak or similar liquid poly adhesive?

 

If so, one could cut out a small section of (say) 15 thou black plasticard and glue that in place?

 

[Captain Kernow]

7 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Alternatively, for more experienced track builders, if an actual joint was made at the correct location, the short bit of rail could be soldered to the cast crossing.

Yes, that's possible, but as someone who has built a few points myself, I'd prefer not to introduce any structurally unnecessary joints.

 

Given that an 'isolating' joint has to be provided, the dummy fishplates further along are a pragmatic solution, in my view.

 

So, in OO at least, presumably the only competition here for bullhead points are the Peco product or C&L kits? (or scratchbuilding your own, of course)

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Captain Kernow

[martin_wynne]

3 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

daubing epoxy in that area

 

I said nothing about daubing!

 

Slide the rail up to the crossing, pull it back a bit, apply a small amount of epoxy to the end of the crossing with a cocktail stick, gently push the rail forward again into it, go and make a coffee while it sets.

 

If even that is beyond someone, how on Earth will they be able to build the rest of the layout?

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Martin

 

As I said not the best option, but the simplest and how many railway modellers would actually notice ? and would it look better than other methods. Just another option

[martin_wynne]

2 minutes ago, hayfield said:

how many railway modellers would actually notice ?

 

Well there's me -- and you.

 

And all the others who noticed that Peco is wrong?

 

And in this case, everyone who chose EM over 00 -- presumably because they prefer things to be as prototypical as possible.

 

Martin.