Item not received dispute

[GWR-fan]

I received an email today highlighting changes to eBay policy as regards an item not received dispute opened by a buyer.  The following is an excerpt from the email and while specific for Australian eBay no doubt the details are applicable for other countries.

 

Quote:  

"If you use an untracked postage service (e.g. Australia Post Domestic Regular Letter Untracked):

Your listings may show longer Estimated Delivery Dates to manage buyer expectations 

Your listings may be placed lower in search results

If a buyer opens an ‘Item Not Received’ request, we will close any unresolved requests and refund the buyer 3 business days after the request is opened and you will be required to reimburse us for the amount"  (end quote)

 

In effect,  if a seller uses an untracked service then eBay will automatically find in favour with the buyer and refund the buyer within 3 business days and charge the seller the refund amount (no doubt including the postage cost).   In other words it seems that the seller has no recourse to a resolution process.   I count my blessings that I am effectively finished as a seller on eBay as I have disposed of most of what I had intended to sell over the past few years.

 

In Australia basically every package is sent with tracking at no additional cost and only items such as envelopes and letters are sent untracked.  If tracking was needed then the letter or envelope could be registered at additional cost.  Thus an untracked item as specified in the eBay policy would be a small relatively inexpensive item,  however, a buyer with knowledge of eBay policies could easily manipulate the system. 

 

As regards closing the case I have never had to deal with an item not received request as a seller but as a buyer have been involved several times.  From memory in the past one would open an item not received request after the time allowed by eBay for an item to be shipped to you has elapsed.  You would then communicate with the seller with eBay allowing at least four business days to elapse to allow the seller to respond.  If after the four days then eBay would nominate a further delay before settlement took place.  It seems now that three days after a dispute is raised that eBay will automatically find in favour of the buyer and then invoice the seller for the amount of the refund.

Edited January 19, 2021 by GWR-fan

[John M Upton]

Another incredibly stupid idea from Ebay.  They seem to have been coming thick and fast lately.

[young37215]

Anything that simplifies the Ebay business model and therby reduces their costs quickly finds favour at Ebay and this mechanical 'the computer says' approach fits the bill perfectly.

 

It is important that sellers sell with their eyes wide open to the inherrent Ebay risks. 

[Wheatley]

3 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

It seems now that three days after a dispute is raised that eBay will automatically find in favour of the buyer and then invoice the seller for the amount of the refund.

 

Unless you've got tracking information. 

 

I used this for the first time the other day. No item a month after estimated delivery date, no comms from the seller. Raised a dispute, no comms from the seller. Escalated to Ebay, no comms from the seller. Refunded three days later "The seller has not provided tracking information", happy buyer, blocked seller. 

 

 

[Blandford1969]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

 

Unless you've got tracking information. 

 

I used this for the first time the other day. No item a month after estimated delivery date, no comms from the seller. Raised a dispute, no comms from the seller. Escalated to Ebay, no comms from the seller. Refunded three days later "The seller has not provided tracking information", happy buyer, blocked seller. 

 

 

Blimey, I'm surprised you did not drop them a line, which is usually my first call. If a buyer emails to say they have not got something I offer a refund if they don't want to hang on its simple. Mind you most of my sales are photos so have a lower value and any order over £20 always goes recorded. 

[Crosland]

Every 1st class parcel in the UK has tracking information. Its less specific than a paid for tracked service but, if you enter the code from your receipt in the tracking web page you can get status such as delivered or delivery attempted and returned to depot (not the exact wording).

 

I have found it very useful and have never found the need to pay for tracking within the UK.

[Wheatley]

48 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Blimey, I'm surprised you did not drop them a line, which is usually my first call. 

 

I did, no response. 

[Blandford1969]

3 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

I did, no response. 

Ah yes, I've had the same. The original post missed that bit (or I missed it) The one I had the seller had blocked all comms so the only choice was through a dispute. 

[Hal Nail]

On 19/01/2021 at 05:10, GWR-fan said:

In effect,  if a seller uses an untracked service then eBay will automatically find in favour with the buyer and refund the buyer within 3 business days and charge the seller the refund amount (no doubt including the postage cost).   In other words it seems that the seller has no recourse to a resolution process.

If you haven't got any form of tracking surely you would struggle to win a resolution anyway?  

[bodmin65]

I've been scammed by buyers twice with items claimed to be faulty by the buyer, when I know they weren't.

eBay promptly refunded them, which is why I won't be selling anything else on there and closing down my account.

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, col.stephens said:

Then surely you are entitled to get back the item?  If eBay is taking it upon themselves to give away your property, I wonder if you would have recourse to action through the Small Claims Court with either the buyer or eBay?

Obviously only worth considering if the item is of some value.

 

4 hours ago, bodmin65 said:

I've been scammed by buyers twice with items claimed to be faulty by the buyer, when I know they weren't.

eBay promptly refunded them, which is why I won't be selling anything else on there and closing down my account.

If a buyer claims that an item is faulty, you have to either fund a return label and accept it back, with the refund being due when the tracking shows that the item has been returned; or you can choose to let the buyer keep the item and refund in full. The only time ebay will intervene is if as a seller you refuse either the return at your cost or the refund.

 

This does mean that occasionally you have to put up with a few challenging buyers, but is part of the 'cost of doing business' on ebay, the upside being that with listing promotions, you can keep 95% or more of your sale proceeds rather than the 40-50% you'll get selling them to a dealer. Despite these terms being clear when you sign up to ebay there are still a few sellers that try and put non-compliant terms in their listings such as 'no responsibility accepted once I've posted' etc. 

 

I while back I sold a Lima Crab, tested and working. The buyer insisted he couldn't get it to work, I paid for the return, when it arrived back it was working fine. I sold it again to someone else with no trouble; but obviously with postage costs etc it 'wasted' around £5 of my money. But overall, it's still the most efficient way for me to dispose of excess items.

[bodmin65]

41 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

If a buyer claims that an item is faulty, you have to either fund a return label and accept it back, with the refund being due when the tracking shows that the item has been returned; or you can choose to let the buyer keep the item and refund in full. The only time ebay will intervene is if as a seller you refuse either the return at your cost or the refund.

 

This does mean that occasionally you have to put up with a few challenging buyers, but is part of the 'cost of doing business' on ebay, the upside being that with listing promotions, you can keep 95% or more of your sale proceeds rather than the 40-50% you'll get selling them to a dealer. Despite these terms being clear when you sign up to ebay there are still a few sellers that try and put non-compliant terms in their listings such as 'no responsibility accepted once I've posted' etc. 

 

I while back I sold a Lima Crab, tested and working. The buyer insisted he couldn't get it to work, I paid for the return, when it arrived back it was working fine. I sold it again to someone else with no trouble; but obviously with postage costs etc it 'wasted' around £5 of my money. But overall, it's still the most efficient way for me to dispose of excess items.

But why should I have the hassle of re advertising the item for sale when I know that it was fully working when I sold it the first time.

 

I've already told eBay that I don't agree with their returns policy. I believe that once they have released the funds to a bank account having held on to it for a couple of weeks, the buyer should lose the option to instigate a return.

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, bodmin65 said:

But why should I have the hassle of re advertising the item for sale when I know that it was fully working when I sold it the first time.

 

I've already told eBay that I don't agree with their returns policy. I believe that once they have released the funds to a bank account having held on to it for a couple of weeks, the buyer should lose the option to instigate a return.

It's their site - their rules. Some of them can be unfair to sellers but it's take it or leave it. 

[GWR-fan]

Several years ago a friend purchased a mint condition LGB Mogul with sound from a seller in the United States.  It cost him around $1000.00 including postage.  He brought the item over to me to test and when we opened the packaging the loco had several detail pieces adrift.  This is not uncommon with older LGB as the glue hardens with age and with just a gentle knock the part will come adrift.  However,  the "analogue" sound was faulty with the bell sounding constantly.  The sound module was the older (pre-electronic) version comprising two large circuit boards taking up most of the space in the tender.  A previous owner had left the 9 volt battery in the tender and over time the acid leaked out onto the circuit boards.

 

My friend immediately contacted the seller and provided details of the faults on a model described as mint condition and that he wished to return it.  The seller replied that he would refund him his money less original shipping cost plus my friend pay for the return shipping.  To return the item would cost around $150.00usd.  My friend raised a dispute with eBay for item received not as described and told the seller to pay the return postage.  In several abusive personal messages the seller advised my friend what he thought of the whole deal and refused to pay return postage.  EBay gave the seller a couple of days to oblige with the return postage cost.  The seller refused, eBay refunded my friend his total outlay including original postage from the States and told him to keep the expensive locomotive.  The seller lost everything.

 

A bit of glue fixed the cosmetic items but the sound fix required new circuit boards from Germany for around $100.00.  After that the loco was perfect.

Edited February 25, 2022 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[Lurch]

6 hours ago, bodmin65 said:

But why should I have the hassle of re advertising the item for sale when I know that it was fully working when I sold it the first time.

Ebay don't care about you, they just want whatever gets them the most money. There's millions and millions of people using it every day and giving them loads of money selling counterfeit and stolen gear. Those of us that think Ebay are a right shower are in a huge minority. I stopped using Ebay (for buying and selling), no other option really.

[ruggedpeak]

9 hours ago, Lurch said:

Ebay don't care about you, they just want whatever gets them the most money. There's millions and millions of people using it every day and giving them loads of money selling counterfeit and stolen gear. Those of us that think Ebay are a right shower are in a huge minority. I stopped using Ebay (for buying and selling), no other option really.

I think you could swap out Ebay and put several other online outfits in your sentence with the same effect. However 'bad' it may perceived to be by those "in the know" the harsh reality is plenty of people use it successfully. I use it to buy and sell and have learnt about the risks. I know things that are sold as brand new are not unless they are from a recognised retailer, I know that if the photos are unclear there is clearly a reason for it. I also know that there are plenty of excellent little businesses selling things I can't get anywhere else -  I have some lovely 3d printed items on the way that can only be found on Ebay.

 

Ebay is a market place, no different from medieval bazaars. Buyer beware, learn how the market works and if it works for you use it. If not stick to other form of retailing.

[meil]

16 hours ago, bodmin65 said:

But why should I have the hassle of re advertising the item for sale when I know that it was fully working when I sold it the first time.

 

I've already told eBay that I don't agree with their returns policy. I believe that once they have released the funds to a bank account having held on to it for a couple of weeks, the buyer should lose the option to instigate a return.

The problem is the distant selling regulations.

[Lurch]

3 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

I think you could swap out Ebay and put several other online outfits in your sentence with the same effect. However 'bad' it may perceived to be by those "in the know" the harsh reality is plenty of people use it successfully.

 

Absolutely. My point was more "if you don't like it don't use it". Every time I have an experience with Ebay it is not positive, YMMV and all that.

[Crosland]

9 hours ago, meil said:

The problem is the distant selling regulations.

They only apply to business sellers.

[Michael Hodgson]

It could presumably be argued that ebay are a business.

Even if the consunsus on here is that they are w*nkers. 

[ianmacc]

On 21/02/2022 at 21:24, GWR-fan said:

Several years ago a friend purchased a mint condition LGB Mogul with sound from a seller in the United States.  It cost him around $1000.00 including postage.  He brought the item over to me to test and when we opened the packaging the loco had several detail pieces adrift.  This is not uncommon with older LGB as the glue hardens with age and with just a gentle knock the part will come adrift.  However,  the "analogue" sound was faulty with the bell sounding constantly.  The sound module was the older (pre-electronic) version comprising two large circuit boards taking up most of the space in the tender.  A previous owner had left the 9 volt battery in the tender and over time the acid leaked out onto the circuit boards.

 

My friend immediately contacted the seller and provided details of the faults on a model described as mint condition and that he wished to return it.  The seller replied that he would refund him his money less original shipping cost plus pay for the return shipping.  To return the item would cost around $150.00usd.  My friend raised a dispute with eBay for item received not as described and told the seller to pay the return postage.  In several abusive personal messages the seller advised my friend what he thought of the whole deal and refused to pay return postage.  EBay gave the seller a couple of days to oblige with the return postage cost.  The seller refused, eBay refunded my friend his total outlay including original postage from the States and told him to keep the expensive locomotive.  The seller lost everything.

 

A bit of glue fixed the cosmetic items but the sound fix required new circuit boards from Germany for around $100.00.  After that the loco was perfect.

The seller sounds like a bit of a tool to be fair. Nevertheless any system that instructs a buyer to keep goods worth hundreds of dollars with no recourse is plainly not right.  The seller should have bitten the bullet and offered a part refund to your friend as I’m sure something could have been agreed.  
 

 

 

[GWR-fan]

1 hour ago, ianmacc said:

The seller sounds like a bit of a tool to be fair. Nevertheless any system that instructs a buyer to keep goods worth hundreds of dollars with no recourse is plainly not right.  The seller should have bitten the bullet and offered a part refund to your friend as I’m sure something could have been agreed.  
 

 

 

 

In this situation the messages received from the seller showed him to be abusive, aggressive and obnoxious.  He got what he deserved.  I can verify the condition the item was received in as I opened the packaging from the States and while investigating the cause of the sound malfunction I observed the corroded circuit boards.  The item was sold as mint condition at a premium price.  The seller's refusal to pay the return postage cost him plenty.  In the States there are people who rummage and clean people's attics or basements or clearout deceased estates.  Possibly the item was found as a result of such a cleanout and the seller had little money invested in the loco.