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Non Corridor Stock Identity


Aire Head
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Can anyone identify the non corridor stock shown in the images below taken from a video showing Keighley Station in 1956.

 

It appears to be a matching set of coaches. The Composite appears to have the first class at one end rather than in the middle and appears to consist of 7 compartments.

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Screenshot_20210207-201650.png

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8I'm going to stick my neck out and say Midland, based on the duckets and the fact that that it's a BT/C/BT set, it appears to be close coupled and it matches the description if not exactly the actual drawings of the various Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield, Metropolitan and Nottingham sets on pages 98/99 of 'Historic Carriage Drawings'. 

 

4 compt BT matches as does the 7 compt composite, although it shoild be 4 first 3 third. They're the Ratio coaches, exvept the layout of the brake compartments doesn't quite match the drawing.  Jenkinson gives extinction dates around 1957-9 for most of them. 

Edited by Wheatley
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1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

I'm going to stick my neck out and say Midland, based on the duckets and the fact that that it's a BT/C/BT set, it appears to be close coupled and it matches the description if not exactly the actual drawings of the various Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield, Metropolitan and Nottingham sets on pages 98/99 of 'Historic Carriage Drawings'.

I agree that the brake Thirds match the types used in the Birmingham and Nottingham sets. I can't identify the composite from those listed on the LMS Society site but it comes from the same family.

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It looks to me like the Nottingham District set drawn in Lacy and Dow Volume 2, even to the asymmetric arrangement of doors and windows in the brake sections. The composites are drawn with 4 first class compartments at one end, but only three "1"s are visible, but I suspect that the fourth compartment has been downgraded to 3rd, presumably to match demand - a subterfuge that many lines adopted as their stock aged and traffic patterns shifted. Knowing thrid class passengers would head for the ex-firsts hoping for a bit of extra comfort.

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10 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

The composites are drawn with 4 first class compartments at one end, but only three "1"s are visible, but I suspect that the fourth compartment has been downgraded to 3rd,

There were some drawings of Midland suburban Composites with three 1st and four 3rd class compartments linked on the LMS  society website. 

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4 hours ago, Aire Head said:

I guess the next logical question is are these available in 4MM? 

Hopefully TSE will correct me if I'm wrong, but Ratio do these or something close as kits. Their ref 714 for the 4 compt brake third, and 711 for the composite (which is actually a first with the third class  compartments reduced in length by internal partitions according to Jenkinson). The kits represent the 8'6" wide version with 10'0" bogies, others were 9'0" wide and/or with 8'0" bogies. 

 

It's quite an attractive set and I like the Ratio kits, I wonder if any ended up in SW Scotland ? :-)

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Looking at the GA drawings the Ratio 4-compartment BT looks right. As you say the Midland used false partitions to make the 3rds in the composite smaller within the same body. I don't have the book but IIRC they built at least 3, 4 and 5 first class compartment versions in the same body to suit requirements in different areas. The 8'6" wide coaches are shown as excursion stock on some lists, presumably because they could be used on other lines with tighter clearances.

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