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Secrets of the London Underground. Series 2 coming 5th May at 8PM on Yesterday


Paul.Uni
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Particularly enjoyed:

- the spiral escalator, or at least mulling over how it might have worked. DNA double helix for up and down?
- the multi-choice questions at the ad breaks

- the enthusiasm of the presenters for things like signs with the wrong font or faded remnants of ancient posters*

 

 

* i.e. paper things on walls, not the readership on here

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I used to use Aldwych back in the late 1970s as part of my daily commute. It was a remnant of a proposed tube line, The Great Northern and Strand, which would have run from Finsbury Park to Strand/Aldwych. In the event, this was merged with the Brompton & Piccadilly Circus to form what is now the Piccadilly line. It is a pity that the Aldwych branch never reached Waterloo, another lost opportunity to link North & South London better.

 

A good programme, I'm looking forward to the remainder of the series.

 

 

Edited by GoingUnderground
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1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

I used to use Aldwych back in the late 1970s as part of my daily commute.

I used it from time to time although I mostly changed onto the Central Line to Chancery Lane (until I concluded it was too badly overloaded & took to walking from Kings Cross to the office instead).  One lunch hour well after Aldwych  had closed I noticed the station doors were open, so I discreetly wandered in and had a good look around.  It looked even more dated than I remembered.  As it was still obviously a tube station, had anybody challenged me I would simply have played stupid and asked where to get a ticket as the booking office was closed !  I think contractors were bringing in props for some film or TV show.

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Tim (& Siddy) must be doing something right as my missus thought it was interesting.

The usual 'nerdy' railway programs and similar, normally pass her by, but Tim's programmes she finds OK.

 

The thing I like with London Transport is that they don't sweep away history unless strictly necessary, like the old Strand/Aldwych (and several others around the network) booking office still there, resplendent with it's tile facings.

 

That spiral travelator looked worthy of modern development. I reckon it could work.

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9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That spiral travelator looked worthy of modern development. I reckon it could work.

 

It could, and does (Travelator / Escalator)

 

I recall seeing a spiral escalator in Las Vegas a few years ago. Apparently made by Mitsibushi.

 

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54 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The thing I like with London Transport is that they don't sweep away history unless strictly necessary


Having spent nearly three decades ‘on the inside’, I can tell you that one, rather dull, reason for that is that it is so expensive to undertake work below ground. Any space already created, but not needed for the time being, is very low-cost to maintain, usually not readily saleable, and might well come in useful for something in the future, so there is no imperative to fill it in or otherwise dispose of it. And, many is the time that long-disused space has become useful.

 

A less dull reason is that the organisation is very history-conscious, from the top downwards. Sir Peter Hendy’s history consciousness needs no comment, and all bar one of the MD/CEO while I worked there took the history very much to heart - Tim O’Toole was a particular case, in that he would have great wodges of archival material sent to him to read at weekends, and he came to regard himself as curator of a tradition. Scratch most longer-serving LU staff and you will find a history buff just below the day job surface. I think that the fact that the LT Museum is an integral part of TfL helps enormously - it’s very much the family attic.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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46 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

I recall seeing a spiral escalator in Las Vegas a few years ago. Apparently made by Mitsibushi.

 

 

I'd call that a curved escalator

I was thinking more the continuous spiral one that was to be used in the Underground.

 

BTW the decor inside of that place is so tasteless, I suppose being Vegas it has to be.

 

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22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:


Having spent nearly three decades ‘on the inside’, I can tell you that one, rather dull, reason for that is that it is so expensive to undertake work below ground. Any space already created, but not needed for the time being, is very low-cost to maintain, usually not readily saleable, and might well come in useful for something in the future, so there is no imperative to fill it in or otherwise dispose of it. And, many is the time that long-disused space has become useful.

 

A less dull reason is that the organisation is very history-conscious, from the top downwards. Sir Peter Hendy’s history consciousness needs no comment, and all bar one of the MD/CEO while I worked there took the history very much to heart - Tim O’Toole was a particular case, in that he would have great wodges of archival material sent to him to read at weekends, and he came to regard himself as curator of a tradition. Scratch most longer-serving LU staff and you will find a history buff just below the day job surface. I think that the fact that the LT Museum is an integral part of TfL helps enormously - it’s very much the family attic.

 

 

I've watched most of the "Hidden London Hangouts" videos presented by a team including Siddy Holloway and Chris Nix (who appeared on last night's programme showing the posters).  They mention how the Underground has had a policy since about 1994 of preserving historic signage as long as it doesn't confuse present-day passengers.  Some historic tiling has even been re-created where it wasn't practicable to keep it, so they're actually adding to the cost of station refurbishments, though probably not by very much.  The Underground probably counts as one of London's major tourist attractions, judging by the range of souvenirs available ranging from general interest to more specialist.  

 

Apologies if this repeats something said on the programme - I'm currently away from home and only caught the last part, the rest is on the recorder for when I return.   

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9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'd call that a curved escalator

I was thinking more the continuous spiral one that was to be used in the Underground.

 

 

When I was a student I was intrigued by some group I briefly encountered who were designing a travelator that got faster as you got further along it than it was at the ends. 

 

Working on the formula v = ds/dt they said that if you could increase the length of the tread whilst you are standing on it, it would be going faster than the tread next to it.  So instead of the usual rectangular steps the threads were curved and tapered.  The treads ran on rails which were parallel for the most of the run, but opened out to a much broader gauge at the start and end.  You would get on a tread as it was broadside on to you looking forwards.  However as the rails converged the step was forced to slide sideways relative to the adjacent one turning nearer parallel to the whole thing and now you were facing over the bannister, until it reached the far end and rotated back again. 

 

I don't think anything ever came of the project though.

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5 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

designing a travelator…

Aack! I need a diagram, as I can’t seem to visualise it without a “mind the gap” appearing. Pretty please?

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44 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

When I was a student I was intrigued by some group I briefly encountered who were designing a travelator that got faster as you got further along it than it was at the ends. 

 

Working on the formula v = ds/dt they said that if you could increase the length of the tread whilst you are standing on it, it would be going faster than the tread next to it.  So instead of the usual rectangular steps the threads were curved and tapered.  The treads ran on rails which were parallel for the most of the run, but opened out to a much broader gauge at the start and end.  You would get on a tread as it was broadside on to you looking forwards.  However as the rails converged the step was forced to slide sideways relative to the adjacent one turning nearer parallel to the whole thing and now you were facing over the bannister, until it reached the far end and rotated back again. 

 

I don't think anything ever came of the project though.

Pretty sure I saw this on "Tomorrow's World" or some similar programme.  I thought the treads were rectangular and the corners disappeared under the side wall, which would have narrowed it even further.  

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58 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

When I was a student I was intrigued by some group I briefly encountered who were designing a travelator that got faster as you got further along it than it was at the ends. 

 

Working on the formula v = ds/dt they said that if you could increase the length of the tread whilst you are standing on it, it would be going faster than the tread next to it.  So instead of the usual rectangular steps the threads were curved and tapered.  The treads ran on rails which were parallel for the most of the run, but opened out to a much broader gauge at the start and end.  You would get on a tread as it was broadside on to you looking forwards.  However as the rails converged the step was forced to slide sideways relative to the adjacent one turning nearer parallel to the whole thing and now you were facing over the bannister, until it reached the far end and rotated back again. 

 

I don't think anything ever came of the project though.

Sounds a bit like the never stop railway which had cabins on rails driven along by a screw between the rails.

At the "station" the pitch was very fine so the cabin moved very slowly enabling entrance and egress.

Between the stations the pitch opened out to drive the cabin a lot faster. (IMHO in practice that could be a continuous chain).

 

See this Meccano recreation

Edited by melmerby
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4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:


Having spent nearly three decades ‘on the inside’, I can tell you that one, rather dull, reason for that is that it is so expensive to undertake work below ground. Any space already created, but not needed for the time being, is very low-cost to maintain, usually not readily saleable, and might well come in useful for something in the future, so there is no imperative to fill it in or otherwise dispose of it. And, many is the time that long-disused space has become useful.

 

A less dull reason is that the organisation is very history-conscious, from the top downwards. Sir Peter Hendy’s history consciousness needs no comment, and all bar one of the MD/CEO while I worked there took the history very much to heart - Tim O’Toole was a particular case, in that he would have great wodges of archival material sent to him to read at weekends, and he came to regard himself as curator of a tradition. Scratch most longer-serving LU staff and you will find a history buff just below the day job surface. I think that the fact that the LT Museum is an integral part of TfL helps enormously - it’s very much the family attic.

 

 

Being a displaced Londoner who's been doing "missionary work in the sticks" for the last 30+ years, I can vouch for at least some of us feeling very proprietorial and protective towards our "home town" and its transport system. It got us to school and work reliably for decades, and for the most part did it in the style set by Lord Ashfield & Frank Pick, with a little help from Harry Beck, of course.

 

Must get round to renewing my Friends of the LT Museum membership.

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4 hours ago, timdunn said:

Ta for the feedback - the team is quite chuffed that it seems to have landed well with both the "general audience" and a lot of Underground "experts" too. Tricky line to tread; often what experts want is a textbook on TV - but there really isn't the scope for that these days. That is what textbooks and Youtube are for! But I think this series does a jolly good job of bringing the casual observer further in, and furthers their interest and understanding. Cheers! tim

Tim - I think you have hit both targets - us nerds....plus the general audience. Great stuff. Also great to see so many folk keen to preserve LT history and make it available.

Chris

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5 hours ago, Damo666 said:

 

It could, and does (Travelator / Escalator)

 

I recall seeing a spiral escalator in Las Vegas a few years ago. Apparently made by Mitsibushi.

 

 

Curved or spiralised, it's a pretty neat bit of Engineering!

 

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Having seen diagrams illustrating the principles of an escalator, I don't think that the engineering for a curved one would be particularly complicated. I suspect the hardest part is the mechanics for when the treads invert at the end of their travel for the return trip to the "start".  Also the 2 handrails would have to travel at different speeds to stay in step with the treads, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the reason why they are rarely seen is that spares for wearing parts will be an issue especially if the curvature is unique. The installation could be more difficult which would make them more costly. Also there may be safety/trip issues over the depth of the treads, narrower on the inside/wider on the outside, especially if they are wide enough to take 2 people side by side. Most folks find when they use a spiral staircase that it is easier to go up on the inside, and come down on the outside where the treads are wider. 

 

Have we got any engineers who could comment?

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Just watched the first episode and a fresh new angle on some of the bits seen before. I hope we get more in the archive of posters and liked the info on colour choices :)  Can’t quite summon the same enthusiasm in tile grout patterns, sorry Siddy :) but still interesting. 
It is nice to see both showing genuine enthusiasm over playing dumb to camera it comes over so much better. 

Looking forward to more :) 

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Do we know what the subjects of episodes 3 onwards are yet?

 

EDIT Scrub that, found it here:

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2021/07/13/secrets-of-the-london-underground-tv-series-starts-next-week/

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I watched my recording of the episode last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

I was a little bit worried about the subject matter as despite being a Londoner, I have never been that keen on the Underground, probably because my Dad worked on the "real" railway at Stratford. I needn't have worried as the presenters Siddy and Tim did a great job of pulling me in with their knowledge and enthusiasm. I also felt a surprising amount of nostalgia as since moving out of London I have not used the Underground that much and the rolling stock shown is how I remember it (I didn't know the Aldwych branch had closed!!).

 

Thanks again to the team making the programme and I look forward to seeing the rest.

 

Steve

 

 

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On 20/07/2021 at 15:15, Michael Hodgson said:

 

When I was a student I was intrigued by some group I briefly encountered who were designing a travelator that got faster as you got further along it than it was at the ends. 

 

Working on the formula v = ds/dt they said that if you could increase the length of the tread whilst you are standing on it, it would be going faster than the tread next to it.  So instead of the usual rectangular steps the threads were curved and tapered.  The treads ran on rails which were parallel for the most of the run, but opened out to a much broader gauge at the start and end.  You would get on a tread as it was broadside on to you looking forwards.  However as the rails converged the step was forced to slide sideways relative to the adjacent one turning nearer parallel to the whole thing and now you were facing over the bannister, until it reached the far end and rotated back again. 

 

I don't think anything ever came of the project though.

Dunlop developed something along those lines in the 1970s called "Speedaway" Wikipedia has details. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/moving_walkway (Plasting a link not working). There have been several other designs of variable speed travelator, the most successful one being from Thyssen Krupp using interlocking "combs".

 

Wikipedia also has information about curved escalators Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/escalator 

 

But what Wikipedia doesn't tell you is that on the first escalators on the Underground you got on and off at the side, not at the ends. And when the first one was installed on the Underground, UERL is said to have employed a man with a wooden leg, known as "Bumper Harris",  to travel on it all day to show passengers how easy it was to use.

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1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

But what Wikipedia doesn't tell you is that on the first escalators on the Underground you got on and off at the side, not at the ends. And when the first one was installed on the Underground, UERL is said to have employed a man with a wooden leg, known as "Bumper Harris",  to travel on it all day to show passengers how easy it was to use.

I think if I saw that I'd wonder if he'd lost the leg due to an escalator accident.  

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