Narrow Gauge Beginnings - getting started in HOn30 and H0e

[Keith Addenbrooke]

With my short post-Easter break drawing to a close, I’ve had some time to complete the two main baseboards:

 

 

Just visible across the left-hand board is a W formation of screw heads - this is where diagonal bracing has been added to the 9mm-ply.  The right hand end board is topped with four offcuts of 9mm-ply with horizontal bracing holding them together.

 

I just need to add the single-line section on a narrow strip of ply fastened to risers to complete the job.  I’ll add some more bracing to the rear frame, but it’s easier to fit risers if I leave space for the drill and add bracing afterwards (guess how I learned this!).  Boards are held together with DCC Concepts alignment dowels and fastened with coach bolts and wing nuts.

 

In what seemed to be an unusual example of forward thinking I cut holes in the frame where baseboards join for wiring to pass through.  But in what is a far more common example of my approach, I forgot to charge the drill beforehand, so the drill bit only just made it…🙂.

 

Just one more session in the garden and I might be up to where I was at the end of April last year…

 

All good fun, have a good week, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I had a grand plan to finish the baseboards by the end of April, but unfortunately rain stopped play just as I was getting going on the final piece today.  There’s a very simple system here for working on the railway outside - as long as I’ve been filling the garden bin first I can then tackle the layout build without any hint of guilt!  I got the first bit of the job done this morning:

 

 

…and was then told by our postman at lunchtime that it was going to rain this afternoon.

 

At least he was delivering a box with a couple of second hand HO building kits in it.  One is a very old Con-Cor / Heljan farmhouse set that I really wanted for the three outhouses / sheds it comes with (no railway can exist without a lot of small huts dotted about).  It even comes with some HO chickens:

 

 

I’ll have to be careful after I detach them from their sprue though - the only piece of the kit that’s missing seems to be the rear of their hen house, and I won’t want them to start wandering about and getting in the way of the trains.

 

All good fun, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

The weather here improved for the Bank holiday (hooray!) and with a free day I’ve finished the baseboards.  Cutting the inside curve on the end of the scenic section took a long time on the boards I built last year (and didn’t look great), so this time I just cut progressive triangles out of the board until it looked ‘open’ enough.  The 12” ruler is just for scale:

 

 

The main station baseboard at the front is 1.22m x 0.45m and weighs 5.6kg.  The open scenic board behind it is the same size but weighs just 2.9kg, while the end board on the right is 0.56m x 0.9m and weighs 4.8kg.  Total weight 13.3kg.  

 

It’s a bit smaller than the four-board version I built last year (12cm shorter, same width) and will fit on three IKEA tables - last year I had space for four tables.  I’ve used 9mm ply for these tops rather than 12mm, so have put in more bracing (each module is also bigger).

 

The total weight of these boards is 1.6kg more than last year’s set, mainly because the surface area of the ‘table top’ on the station board is about 75% bigger to fit the American HO buildings I’ve got for a town scene.  It does mean the main board is at the limit of what I want to be carrying up and down the attic stairs (both in terms of size and weight), but it has given me greater flexibility in layout design in return.

 

The next step is to paint the boards and to overlay them with cork ready to come inside.  Anyone patient enough to read through this thread knows this is where alarm bells start ringing - it is often as far as my projects get!  My hope is that momentum will carry me forward as the buildings and rolling stock kits I have in stock are intended for use on this layout.  That may seem obvious to most of course but in my case it has been more of an interative process to get even this far.

 

Have a good week, Keith.

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I’ve acquired a set of four Minitrains H0e Fiddletown and Copperopolis Passenger Cars: brown with the F&C lettering, from the 009 Society Members’ Shop - excellent condition and half retail price (without the locomotive in the original book set).

 

They’re my first Minitrains purchase and I wasn’t sure what I’d think of them, having only seen photos.  In some brightly lit close-ups they can seem a bit ‘plasticky’ but I’m happy with how they look at normal viewing distance even without any detailing or weathering:

 

 

(Cars are not in the right order - the third car for mail probably ought to be at the head end, followed by the baggage car and the combine, with the coach at the rear).

 

For a quirky 2’ line I think the proportions are fine, and give me a nice instant train for zero effort.  No.12 does rather tower over them though and I hadn’t realised how small these 4-axle vehicles are:

 

 

 

The dimensions are basically the same size as a Liliput 4-wheel H0e coach, which is interesting.  They hadn’t been my first choice, but I’m happy to say my expectations have been exceeded - they look to be a very good fit for this layout project.

 

As I don’t have a modelling weekend planned, this is also my general update for this week.  Have a good weekend, Keith.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Northroader]

So they should go through the tunnels O.K.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

So they should go through the tunnels O.K.

 

Exackerly

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I’ve bought some Dundas kits for my stash - they’re highly regarded, and as many are based on small Ffestiniog prototypes I’m hoping they won’t look too out of place as freelance HO NG (I’ve gone for coaches with balconies).

 

First up though is a Quarryman’s Brake Van from the 009 Society second-hand shop:

 

 

As the moulding includes two roof pieces, I wondered about extending it over the balconies for a more continental / American look, but the diminutive size of the body doesn’t really give enough room - you’d bang your head on the edge of the curved roof when getting on and off!  I’ve gone for a light khaki livery - it’s not too drab and I had some spare to use:

 

 

I built the chassis and one balcony end first so I could test the coupler height (couplers aren’t included, mine are Peco).

 

The window bars are cut from styrene rod in the kit.  Glazing needs cutting to size as the frames have a moulded recess on the inside too (see photo below).  Whether I’ll have the patience to do this for each individual window when it comes to the coaches I’ve bought remains to be seen, but it was worth trying here.  Mind you, builds like this remind me why I’m better off in 3.5mm / 4mm Scale and not smaller: note the cutting mat squares in the photo above are 1/4” spacing.  

 

Internal bracing comes from the bench seats along either side:

 

 

I’ve seen photos of a proposed Peco r-t-r 009 version, but I think their balcony end rails seem quite a lot thicker than these.  The ‘cruel close-up’ however reveals some things still to do:

 

 

I’d not spotted I need to paint the inside of the side walls where they form the window frames for the end windows, and I need to re-glue the brass handrails that came off during assembly (I didn’t lose any!).  Painting needs completing and brake shoes fitting.  Incidentally, the wheels are very free running: impressive.

_________________________

 

Switching back to H0e, I’d not planned to buy any more r-t-r (at least for a bit), but I couldn’t resist four excellent second-hand Roco bogie coaches in Mariazellerbahn liveries that I think go quite nicely behind the 2095 Class locomotive:

 

(I already had the SLB coach - it’s not a match, but is the only coach I have with a Luggage / Guards’ section).

 

 

 

This train is too big for my test layout, but at just under 3’ long is more compact than the Swiss H0m I sold and gives me the kind of ‘mainline’ passenger train I enjoy watching - a clear benefit of NG modelling I’ve often noted.

 

The Ferro-Train locomotive is awesome, and hardly seemed to notice it was pulling five bogie coaches.  It prompted me to try a simple haulage test: adding three Liliput 4-wheel coaches didn’t make much difference to this locomotive (it might as well be running light engine!).  My Liliput 0-4-0 MV8 could manage the five bogie coaches, but struggled with the eight coach rake.  

 

I also tried my two resin kit locomotives with Kato 11-110 chassis - although I don’t expect them to pull this train I wanted to see how they fared.  While they run very smoothly on short trains, the Bagnall Steam Tram couldn’t shift the five bogie coaches (and the diesel only just).  They’d need extra weight to pull this load, but it was an interesting comparison.

 

As for the layout, I’m hoping to have time to paint the baseboards over half-term if the weather is good enough.  I also need to update my parallel threads on NGRM at some point, but that’s all for now.  Keith.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[zarniwhoop]

40 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Switching back to H0e, I’d not planned to buy any more r-t-r (at least for a bit), but I couldn’t resist four excellent second-hand Roco bogie coaches in Mariazellerbahn liveries that I think go quite nicely behind the 2095 Class locomotive:

Nice. Technically the liveries are ÖBB  rather than specifically MzB (although the commonly seen brown was specific to the MzB). And in general both match well with the 2095 in that livery. For many Austrian 760mm  passenger trains, a guard/baggage coach was not necessarily required - but common if three or more coaches.

 

The SLB (Pinzgauer) liviery is a bit more modern, after the Pinzgau was "let go" by the ÖBB.

 

ĸen

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 21/05/2022 at 21:40, zarniwhoop said:

Nice. Technically the liveries are ÖBB  rather than specifically MzB (although the commonly seen brown was specific to the MzB). And in general both match well with the 2095 in that livery. For many Austrian 760mm  passenger trains, a guard/baggage coach was not necessarily required - but common if three or more coaches.

 

The SLB (Pinzgauer) liviery is a bit more modern, after the Pinzgau was "let go" by the ÖBB.

 

ĸen

 

Thank you - useful information.  I’d not realised the ÖBB orange (“Jaffa”) livery / Pflatsch branding was more widely used on the Narrow Gauge network too - as I’m not looking to be specific with the H0e aspect of the current project iteration that is helpful.  As my coaches have the cream roofs, my guess is they’d possibly be from earlier in that period (mid-1970s onwards?).  Also useful to know the brown livery was specific to the Mariazellerbahn, as the plain brown looks quite generic to me.  I’d assumed those with the additional “teddy bear” logos were specific, but not necessarily the plain ones.

 

As you say, the SLB coach is more modern, as I think the SLB only took on the line from 2008 ?  As a rather impressive Ferro-Train model with fitted passengers of a less common coach style (which I think is sometimes called “Krimmler” ?) I fancied it anyway.  What the photos don’t reveal is that all my coaches are second class only, so I may keep a look out for an A / AB coach to add to the collection.  A van for bicycles might also be appropriate but is less of a priority.  Thanks again, Keith.

 

 

[Hobby]

This book is very useful, being a colour picture book on the history of the 2095 diesels it shows all the various liveries:

 

https://www.train24.de/p-Die-Baureihe-2095--BB---SLB-page=produktdetail&page2=6521&kategorie=&seite=1&sid=25e505473a0d819c5002aaf12304f3e4

[zarniwhoop]

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

Thank you - useful information.  I’d not realised the ÖBB orange (“Jaffa”) livery / Pflatsch branding was more widely used on the Narrow Gauge network too - as I’m not looking to be specific with the H0e aspect of the current project iteration that is helpful.  As my coaches have the cream roofs, my guess is they’d possibly be from earlier in that period (mid-1970s onwards?).  Also useful to know the brown livery was specific to the Mariazellerbahn, as the plain brown looks quite generic to me.  I’d assumed those with the additional “teddy bear” logos were specific, but not necessarily the plain ones.

 

As you say, the SLB coach is more modern, as I think the SLB only took on the line from 2008 ?  As a rather impressive Ferro-Train model with fitted passengers of a less common coach style (which I think is sometimes called “Krimmler” ?) I fancied it anyway.  What the photos don’t reveal is that all my coaches are second class only, so I may keep a look out for an A / AB coach to add to the collection.  A van for bicycles might also be appropriate but is less of a priority.  Thanks again, Keith.

 

 

I guess 'teddy bear' might be what the ARG called 'flying snail' ?

 

Yes, 'Krimmler' - originally for the Pinzgau but later elsewhere. My main interest is the Ybbstalbahn, which latterly had a set of those in the later red and ivory livery (along with one of the old carriages repainted to that livery. But all second class, as the Pinzgau was, at least latterly, and probably that was true for any line which received 5090 railcars.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

27 minutes ago, zarniwhoop said:

I guess 'teddy bear' might be what the ARG called 'flying snail' ?.

 

I may be causing confusion here, sorry.  

 

I think the correct name for the logo I called a ‘teddy bear’ is the Ötscher Bär which appears in some Mariazellerbahn photos on brown carriage sides and the 1099 Class Electric Locomotive(s).  I assume it’s a local marketing move.

 

The ‘flying snail’ is more likely to be the standard ÖBB Pflatsch (which I think translates “splash”).  I may have the wrong terminology - and it doesn’t help that I don’t speak German.  Apologies for any confusion I’m causing.  

 

Helpful to know I don’t have to worry too much about 1st Class accommodation, thank you.  Keith.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

It’s not taken long to complete the Brake van build:

 

 

 

 

As is often the case, photos reveal things I’d not spotted - such as the glue mark on the van roof (now repainted).  The diminutive size of the prototype is well illustrated by the third photo - all the rolling stock in the picture is 009 / 4mm Scale. 

 

The pictures were posed while the light was still bright - when the paint and glue have had time to dry properly I’ll add the decals then this is done.  I then have a couple of coaches to have a go at, which I’ve decided to paint in the same khaki livery:

 

 

Have a good weekend, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

The suggestion was made over on NGRM that shortening the coupling extensions would improve the Brake Van.  With a spare hour this evening I first removed the end railings, as I’d fitted the coupler pockets into the middle of each end piece.  Fortunately I’d kept the central sections I’d cut out just in case:

 

 

Then I shortened the NEM pockets by removing the vertical parts so they can fit under the chassis:

 

 

Next step was to re-fix the railings and one coupling so I could recheck the coupler height.  The roof came loose while I was fiddling about and the hand rails came off (again), but the coupler height is fine:

 

 

Handrails were reattached (this time with Superglue), the roof re-glued and the other coupler pocket fitted, leaving the addition of decals to complete the re-build.  The apparent droop on the couplings is less than it looks in the finished photo:

 

 

Given my choice of standard NG couplings, this is now about as good as I’ll get:

 

 

 

Although the finished model is very light, at normal running speed it passed all running / shunting tests.  Railfans asking CAL staff why the Brake Van (Caboose) doesn’t have a running number yet may find the response points out the Line only has one anyway.  So I think I can call this finished.

________________________________________

 

[As an aside, the close-up photo shows my technique for attaching handrails wasn’t great - the dab of superglue I’d put on each bracket seemed tiny (see below), but judging by the residue it was still more than I needed.

 

 

I have a trio of boxcar kits that each have 24 wire steps to be fitted to similar brackets, so I need to put in some practice]

Edited May 27, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

OK, so this isn’t railway modelling (no prizes for guessing what these people are either - too easy), but I wanted to share this photo of a pair of 1:52 scale figures (approx. US O-Scale) I’ve tried painting this afternoon, simply as a way of acknowledging the amazing talent and patience shown by modellers who can actually paint people in HO / OO or N-Scale: even with a 00 size brush and a magnifying glass, this is the best I could do:

 

 

The visors / sunglasses were particularly tricky, and look more like bad blindfolds in this close up.  They’ll have to rely on the force instead…

[JZ]

Used to model 1/72 scale aircraft in my teens and early 20s. I put a lot of detail into the pilot figures. RAF fighter pilots usually had a moustache, even went as far as the eyes. These day if it can't be seen, don't bother. Though occasionally I go to town and put in detail that only I will ever know about.  20 odd years ago, I had an almost complete set of Cambrian Somerset coalfield wagons. In each, the coal load was real coal from that particular colliery. For two of them it took surreptitious night time visits onto private property to get it. The collieries in question closed between 1916 and 1973. But if you know where to look............

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Intermission:

(posted simply for the sake of completeness):

 

(The short cut I’ve often taken with aerospace / outer space models is to leave the hulls unpainted - it’s a compromise I choose to live rather than mess up.  In this case it meant finding a suitable paint for the parts of the all-in-one glazing piece that needed blanking out: painting good quality clear plastic turned out to be quite tricky as it was basically invisible to my eyes to start with!).

 

All good fun for the Bank Holiday, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Back to railway modelling.  

 

With the test layout still proving it’s worth, slow progress on baseboard painting isn’t too big an issue (much as I’d like to get the layout up and running soon).  Having exceeded expectations with the selection of rolling stock I’ve put together thanks to the 009 Society Members’ Shop, I’m tempted to consider a more ambitious layout option using bits I have left over from earlier baseboard builds - something Narrow Gauge modelling allows even in a compact space like mine (as long I stick to mountain lines):

 

 

 

 

I’ve not changed anything yet, but If I add another level I can have separate circuits for my different interests - just musings at this stage, and weight could be an issue. (What the photos don’t show is I’ve been busy painting the undersides of the boards 😀).

_________________________

I’ve other things to be getting on with in the meantime.  In my 26th May post I showed a couple of Dundas 009 Coach Kits: as with the Brake Van the balconies and diminutive Ffestiniog prototype mean I hope to pass them off as freelance HOn30 rolling stock.

 

These are a DM59 Bogie Brake 3rd and a DM61 four-compartment Bogie Composite planked Coach (a freelance design to complement the DM59).  The DM61 can be with or without balconies.  Mine will have one balcony and the two cars will run back-to-back as a pair.  

 

These kits are more complex than others I’ve tried, but are well made and come with simple instructions.  Progress so far:

 

 

There is the option of fitting individual glazing pieces for a nice flush fit, but I didn’t fancy my chances cutting and sticking 36 individual window and door panels for the compartments, so I just did that for the Guards compartment and end windows.  The coach isn’t expected to have an end door, but with spares included I went for it - I remembered to cut a gap in the end seat.

 

I decided not to paint the insides, as the amount of light that gets in when the roofs are fitted limits what can be seen:

 

 

The metal wheels are very free running, although I did manage to split the first bogie side fitting it to the single spine stretcher.  Fortunately, there are some optional side springs as an extra piece I could use to help when I glued it back together:

 

 

Couplings to be added.  Finally, a first test fit - the roof and bogies are not yet attached:

 

 

At the moment they look very UK-ish to me, but adding railings to the end balconies may change the appearance quite a bit.  Enjoy the rest of the weekend, Keith.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

With a little bit of free time after our Jubilee Celebrations today, I was able to inspect the coaches and plan the next step of the build.  I decided to quickly paint the visible parts of the insides after all - the seats and compartment dividers are now olive yellow (left over from the Star Wars Speeder Kit):

 

 

I also noticed I’d botched the gluing of the end of the Composite, which had ended up skewed:

 

 

 

Although it’s planned to run as an ‘inside end’ when the cars are back-to-back, it still needed to come off and be reattached:

 

 

The close-up shows I’ve not made a terribly good job of the corners, but there’s no longer a big gap when I put the roof on.

 

Painting the balconies took longer than planned, as my grey paint had solidified into gritty lumps.  After a bit of messing about and trying to thin it with white spirits, I managed to get enough for the job.  The railings were painted black and attached:

 

(The paint on the roofs has been touched up, but they are not yet attached)

 

I’d hoped to tackle the couplings today, but they’ll have to wait.  Have a good week, Keith.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

A bit of time this evening to look at the couplings.  I decided when I began Narrow Gauge modelling to standardise on the Peco style for convenience, and I’m fitting Peco GR-102 couplings to modified Peco GR-103 NEM pockets.  I have no idea if the approach I’ve used is a good one, but it seems to have done the job, so here goes (the instructions provided are for Bemo couplings, which Dundas can supply, hence my description for Peco in case it is helpful):

 

As my coaches have balconies at one end only they are asymmetrical ‘below the line’.  My first step was to compare the undersides with equivalent r-t-r stock (all of which is happy on 9” curves). L to R: Roco, Ferro-train, the Dundas kit I’m working on, and MinitrainS.

 

 

It looks like I need to slightly shorten the shanks on the non-balcony ends before fitting the coupler pockets.  A height check against some Peco GR-106 bogie mounted couplings shows the pockets need to be the same height (it would be easier if I could glue them above or below the shanks, but never mind).  Peco bogies on the outside, Dundas on the insides:

 

 

I therefore cut down the Peco NEM pockets so I could glue just the holding part to the end of each shank.  I could then glue the top part I’d cut off on top of the shank as a strengthener:

 

 

For the non-balcony end I shaved a couple of mm off the ends of the shanks before gluing the pockets on:

 

 

So I now have a pair with longer strengthened shanks (again, Peco on the outside, Dundas on the inside):

 

And a pair with shorter strengthened shanks (I needed to shorten my top strengthener by a couple of mm to fit)

 

 

These will now be left overnight for the glue to set hard before the actual couplings are fitted.

 

A year ago I would still have been terrified of even this simple task (the first thread I started on the parallel NGRM Online Forum was to find out about types of couplings I could use).  Looks like the help and encouragement I’ve had is paying dividends, thanks to all, Keith.
 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

A bit more progress.  A test fit on the bogies after fitting the running boards showed the gap between the two cars was too large:

 

 

Examining the underneath confirmed the ‘shorter’ coupling shank at the plain end (on the left) was still too long:

 

 

I cut off the holders and shaved another couple of mm off the shanks before gluing it all back together - it doesn’t look much different in the revised photo, but is noticeable better in reality:

 

 

I’ve also started adding the truss rods and glazing bars on the doors - the kit comes with brass rod, but I want that for another build so substituted some thin styrene I had in stock (matching the Brake Van).  The Luggage compartment stovepipe is a bit of cut sprue - a similar piece has been added to the Brake Van / Caboose after it was suggested to me as a simple improvement.

 

Adding the brake shoes was the fiddliest bit of the build so far - several broke when I was cutting the first set from from the sprue. I removed the wheels to avoid getting glue on them - they don’t look great but all four trucks are still free running:

 

 

 

I don’t plan to paint the trucks: they are a Matt enough black to disappear beneath the passenger cars.  Still a bit to do, but I’m getting there.  The room I use is needed for guests in a couple of weeks, so I have the incentive to press on and finish, Keith.

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[JZ]

As they will be permanently coupled together, have you considered using a drawbar between them? This would close the gap even more.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

35 minutes ago, JZ said:

As they will be permanently coupled together, have you considered using a drawbar between them? This would close the gap even more.

I did - with just two cars I think it could be very easily done simply by supergluing the ends of the coupler shanks together instead of shortening them.
 

In my case I decided I’d like to retain the option of splitting them when switching (the Combine could then run in a mixed train), but it’s definitely an idea worth highlighting, especially for someone with a permanent layout who could fashion a semi-permanent coupler.  Good point, thanks.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

A bit of quiet time this afternoon to add some more details between commitments.  First task was to complete the window bars:

 

 

 

Then the brass rod door handles - I curved each one around the side of a lolly stick, clamped with a bulldog clip:

 

 

These were then superglued in place (easier said than done: superglue can’t tell the difference between the pliers and the model).  I’ve touched up the paint on the glazing bars and the edges of the footboards.  Vacuum pipes were also added but will need trimming to avoid fouling the bogies:

 

 

This is still a test fit - the bogies and roof remain loose while I finish the detailing:

 

 

I must admit I thought the stovepipe / chimney was straight!!!

 

 

I somehow managed to get superglue across this end - hence the patched up paint job.  When it’s dry I can re-score the planking.  The instructions suggest adding downpipes at the opposite end to the balconies.  Looking at this photo, I may have missed a trick not tucking them into the corners.  These are of course highly magnified close-ups, which I find particularly useful for revealing where further attention is needed.

 

Have a good week, Keith. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[JZ]

10 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

 

 

 

I must admit I thought the stovepipe / chimney was straight!!!

Have a good week, Keith. 

 

 

 

The jaunty angle of the stack adds to the character.