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Z21 + DR4088LN-CS Detectors + Traincontroller


RFS
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1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

Think you mean NCE Switch-8s rather than RS-8s :)

 

 

Yes indeed, thanks. Now corrected.

 

The very nature of the LS150 means it is not suited to Tortoises because only one port can operate at a time, so even if TC tries to operate 3 points in succession, the LS150 will only operate the second after the time delay required to operate the Tortoise on the first has finished and so on.

The Switch-8s can change polarity in an instant, so even all 8 ports can change at virtually the same time.

 

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3 hours ago, Alan Kettlewell said:

For operating, when I'm not sitting back and watching Train Controller handle everything - and I actually want to drive something myself or change any turnouts - I use the Z21 App either on my Samsung Tablet or with my phone.  In a large shed I wanted wireless operation, so it all works great.

 

Cheers ... Alan    

Although I have tried the app on phone and tablet, I like the tactile feel of the throttle on the Roco Wireless Maus, as I can operate it one handed without looking at it, which is impossible with screen based throttles.

Great for slowly moving a loco for coupling etc. whilst looking at the loco and not the throttle.:good:

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16 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Although I have tried the app on phone and tablet, I like the tactile feel of the throttle on the Roco Wireless Maus, as I can operate it one handed without looking at it, which is impossible with screen based throttles.

Great for slowly moving a loco for coupling etc. whilst looking at the loco and not the throttle.:good:

 

Yep, I can agree with that.  On my big H0 layout I'd run the whole thing automatically with TC so hardly had cause for hand operating.  However my new 0 gauge layout currently under development is a terminus to fiddle yard layout so there'll very likely be some hand shunting.  I have a Roco wireless multi-maus but hardly use it, soon then it may be time to dust it off...

 

Cheers... Alan

 

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I haven’t heard of anyone disappointed with the move to a Z21, a few have realised the difference between Z and z too late and had to buy the Z, but everyone is happy with the stability and performance.

 

If you get and issue with false detection from the DR4088 then drop me a PM and I will explain how to resolve this issue which is unfortunately quite common.

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I also currently have Lenz + Z21 combo on Train Controller, using RS-8s for block detection.

 

Having had endless problems with keeping the Lenz system connected via LAN to TC (less so with USB but still occasional drop outs).

I have now decided to go the same way as in this topic and eliminate the Lenz system entirely.

 

I have the DR4088LN-CS_BOX starter set on the way to get me going, so that I can eventually remove all the 16 x RS-8s I am using and do the detection via Loconet on the Z21.

I can then dispose of the Lenz kit & RS-8s completely.

 

I have 5A booster that I can connect via the Z21 booster bus, meaning that the accessory bus (currently fed by the Lenz system) can be connected to the Z21 output rather than the Lenz and the trains can have a full 5A to use.

 

I have in the past tried connecting the accessory bus to the Z21 and found that adding the accessory bus to all the other odds & ends connected to track power, 2.2A was already taken up before I try and run any trains!

The Z21 only has 3.2A output.

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Hi Iain

That's an interesting item

Anyone in the UK sell them?

 

Since my last post I have put the booster into circuit on the Roco Booster Bus (it's 4.5A not 5A as I said before!) and connected the turnouts to the Z21 Track output (having set the Z21 for standard turnout numbering and position)

The booster is set so that it does not pass short circuit info back to the Z21.

That way the turnouts can still be operated, if the booster trips on a short cct.

I can still reset it with a command from the Z21. (or from the WLAN Maus)

 

Just the detection to remove from the Lenz system.

 

On another issue:

Is the WLAN Maus normally slow operating turnouts?

After operating one it is about 5 seconds before I can operate another.

Is there a delay setting somewhere in the menu?

 

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Keith

 

Wim sells them direct and is very quick with his delivery.  Assuming he has them in-stock then you should have it with a few days. I bought mine after Brexit and there was no surcharge on the unit. I have the Loconet version, and it works extremely well for me. I know a couple of others who also bought it from Wim, and they are also happy.

 

It sounds like you have done the same as me, I have a Roco 10806 (3A) powering the track and the Z21 powering the accessories - again very reliable solution.  I don't find a delay in operating turnouts, they start moving as soon as I click the direction arrow to move - are you switching from the Z21 or via TC? IF I switch via iTrain then there is a very slight delay, not major but noticeable but I only did that to test the Z21 emulation that allows non-Z21 people (e.g. BiDiB, Digitrax, ESU, Zimo, etc.) to use the Roco WLAN Maus through iTrain giving them the remote capability.

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Hi Iain

It's not the first operation that is slow, first switch is pretty well instantaneous, it's any subsequent operation, where I have to wait 5 seconds or so, even if switching the same address back again.

The delay is only when using the Maus, Train Controller is almost instantaneous.

I'll try with the tablet to see how that reponds.

 

The Booster is the Littfinski DB-4, another of my kit builds (I made two several years ago but never got round to installing them).

It has a "watchdog" function as well, such that if the computer program sees an error it will cut track power, I haven't investigated that yet.

 

 

 

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With the Samsung Tab it is pretty well instantaneous, it's just the Maus which will do the first command then there is a long wait >5 secs before it will do another.

The throttle control is fine BTW

 

Found it: It was a setting in the menu for Turnout Switching Time in mS

It was set to max, I have re-set it to min which is 100mS, now switches the booster on and off as quick as I can press the buttons.

I assume it must be  default for slow motion turnouts (not stall motors like Tortoise or Cobalt)

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I have to admit that I wasn't even aware that this parameter could be changed, and I see that in the manual it is adjustable from 100-1000ms with a default of 200ms.

 

Mine was still on the default setting, hence not being aware of the issue 😀

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1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

I have to admit that I wasn't even aware that this parameter could be changed, and I see that in the manual it is adjustable from 100-1000ms with a default of 200ms.

 

Mine was still on the default setting, hence not being aware of the issue 😀

!000mS seems a lot less than the actual time it was taking, It seemed to be over 5 secs. I know when I got to the screen the figures were not a nice round number like 200 or 1000.

I'll have to investigate further.

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Hi Iain

My DR4088 LN + S88 Startset has arrived today from DCC Automation (excellent service as usual)

I will need to re-arrange my block wiring to accommodate these units as they only have a single wire track feeds.

The RS-8s have J&K in and each zone has a J&K out, so all my blocks have 2 wires from the detectors and both rails insulated.

One side is a common through connection.

To save ripping out all the old wiring and putting in new feeds, I have decided to provide a complimentary terminal block mounted next to the DR4088, using the same terminal layout, to provide the common rail connections as well.

 

As I will need a few LN cables I ordered an Uhlenbrock Kabeltester from A&H, he's running down his stock so they are only £9.95! I couldn't make one as cheap.

It will do 6 wire Loconet as well as 8 wire cables, I assume that S88 are standard network cables.

 

 

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I now have the new DR4088s connect to the Z21 (and each other) and have got the 32 detected inputs working correctly on a new test switchboard with Train Controller;.

So far so good.

 

A question or two

In the Digikeijs instructions it says that addresses in S88 devices are automatically allocated.

Does this mean that if the sequence of S88 devices is changed the addresses will also change?

 

Again in the Digikeijs instructions it says that the start address and end address must be set in the 4088LN unit.

I have set the start address to 1 and the end address to 32, to include the S88 unit as well.

Does the end address have to be exact or can it be any number higher than the actual end address?

 

This is how I have catered for the common wires:

4088LN.jpg.ca706f327b73c78c19584f253a7acab0.jpg

I have kept the two halves separate in case I want to use different boosters for each half.

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Keith

 

I dont use S88, sicking instead to Loconet, but my understanding is that you can only add to the end of the S88 chain therefore if you have 1-16, 17-32, already then adding another S88 to the end of the chain it will become 33-48, and the next 49-64. This should not cause any issues with TC.

 

If, however, you inserted a new one into the middle of  the chain e.g. position 2, then it would get 17-32 and shunt the other's numbering in the chain down by 16.

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4 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Keith

 

I dont use S88, sicking instead to Loconet, but my understanding is that you can only add to the end of the S88 chain therefore if you have 1-16, 17-32, already then adding another S88 to the end of the chain it will become 33-48, and the next 49-64. This should not cause any issues with TC.

 

If, however, you inserted a new one into the middle of  the chain e.g. position 2, then it would get 17-32 and shunt the other's numbering in the chain down by 16.

That ties in with what I had assumed.

There seems to be a bit of a shortage of these units, considering I need another 7 and the S88 seems to have more availability and are cheaper by around £13 each

I've decided to do them in groups with one L.Net unit and two  S88s, then another LN on and more S88s, I should end up with three or 4 LN groups in different numbering blocks (say start addresses of 100, 200 etc.)

 

There is a seller in Germany that has some on e-bay with a fixed postage of £14.32, purchasing two (a S88 CS and a S88 Opto) works out cheaper than UK sellers inc postage so I'll get a couple that way and see how we go.

The cost from the German model shop for the two units is about €92 including shipping. e.bay will add on the UK VAT, which makes the total, including exchange rate around £94-£95 inc VAT and Postage.

 

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I know a business that will rival your current manufacturer and should have been selling their product already but are hamstrung by the lack of components - a great pity as the functionality and price will be better, but as they aren’t in production yet it is acedemic 😰 

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

That ties in with what I had assumed.

There seems to be a bit of a shortage of these units, considering I need another 7 and the S88 seems to have more availability and are cheaper by around £13 each

I've decided to do them in groups with one L.Net unit and two  S88s, then another LN on and more S88s, I should end up with three or 4 LN groups in different numbering blocks (say start addresses of 100, 200 etc.)

 

There is a seller in Germany that has some on e-bay with a fixed postage of £14.32, purchasing two (a S88 CS and a S88 Opto) works out cheaper than UK sellers inc postage so I'll get a couple that way and see how we go.

The cost from the German model shop for the two units is about €92 including shipping. e.bay will add on the UK VAT, which makes the total, including exchange rate around £94-£95 inc VAT and Postage.

 

 

I bought all my units direct from Digikeijs but I see they are out of stock too. 🙁

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2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

I bought all my units direct from Digikeijs but I see they are out of stock too. 🙁

I bought the Startset from DCC Train Automation but many various 4088s are OOS ,I've just ordered 2 more 4088s today from "ModelBahnspezialist" in Germany, via ebay to include VAT.

They seem to have good stocks of most.

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Trying to get enough  units is proving to be very frustrating

I've started swapping RS-8s for DR4088 LN CS but wish I hadn't.

 

Model shop "A" shows two DR4088 LN CS in stock, I order those, get an e-mail a day after, to say they were sorry but only one in stock. I reply I'll just have the one. Came to pack it for despatch  and turns out it's the wrong type, so I'm down to zero. There is no date for any restock with his supplier.

 

Model shop "B" shows as two in shop, order those, order accepted, came to pack only one in stock. The other one is again the wrong type.

 

What a bl**dy shambles.

What's the point of e-commerce when they don't update the stock levels?

 

It also shows the stupidity of Digikeijs calling them all "DR4088", Retailers are getting confused.

Each should be a different number.

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Hi Robert

When was this?

What was the final cost per unit after taxes etc. paid?

 

I bought my first item from them, when they were still Digirails. (whilst EU rules applied of course.)

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50 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Hi Robert

When was this?

What was the final cost per unit after taxes etc. paid?

 

I bought my first item from them, when they were still Digirails. (whilst EU rules applied of course.)

 

I bought my units in two transactions last June. At checkout, VAT was deducted when the address was given as UK and I was expecting to have to pay that on delivery but didn't have to. I don't quite understand, but I think it had something to do with the transition in Brexit. Also, as the orders were above €80 they were post free too. Delivery was via tracked DPD and was quite quick. 

 

One order was for 3 DR4088CS units and was €141. The other was for a DR4088RB starter set (ie + one DR4088CS) and was for €94. My other DR4088RB was purchased from Coastal DCC. 

Edited by RFS
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Digikeijs put up their prices recently but I bought something direct from them about three weeks ago (when they had a sale on).  I'm not clear as to whether Dutch or British VAT was applied, but there certainly wasn't any surcharge on delivery. 

Delivery was very fast as it had been on previous orders before brexit. 

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