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Resignalling Central Croydon from the 1860's (initially just sanity checking signal layout)


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52 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Which era was R/Y vs R/G? Becasse has suggested that a 3-aspect in the 1950's could indicate on the SR that the platform was occuped but movement into it was permitted (effectively replacing the calling-on arm). interesting!

Not suggested, stated as a fact which it indeed was, a SR colour light signal controlling entry into a terminal platform would display green indicating that the road was clear to the stops or yellow indicating that the road was only partially clear. The last new installation that followed this principle was the emergency replacement signal box at Cannon Street which opened in December 1957 but existing installations continued to use the arrangement until the use of green for entry into terminal roads was abolished throughout BR following the accident at Moorgate in 1975.

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

this would give no S&T indication to the engineman at all about whether a) the points were released, or b) that the route was set correctly for them?  i.e. hand signals only?

 

Hand signals or verbal instructions from the person operating the ground frame - who is basically standing next to the loco anyway

 

26 minutes ago, bécasse said:

Not suggested, stated as a fact which it indeed was, a SR colour light signal controlling entry into a terminal platform would display green indicating that the road was clear to the stops or yellow indicating that the road was only partially clear. The last new installation that followed this principle was the emergency replacement signal box at Cannon Street which opened in December 1957 but existing installations continued to use the arrangement until the use of green for entry into terminal roads was abolished throughout BR following the accident at Moorgate in 1975.

 

Thanks for that - I guess that's what was meant by the 'special instructions' mentioned, but not included, in my rule book. Effectively using the yellow aspect as a calling-on signal. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

My apologies for the delay in replying but there proved to be rather more work involved in preparing this reply than I had anticipated. The drawings below which are approximately to scale (with each "box" representing a square foot in 2mm scale and a two-foot square box in 4mm scale - or 152 feet square in reality) show as much of the real history of the Croydon Central site as I have been able to ascertain, plus a fictional sequel that would have facilitated its survival into the modern day. Although I have taken it no further forward than the introduction of colour light signalling in March 1955, that layout and signalling, had it been installed, would almost certainly have been retained unaltered until 1984 when signalling control of the whole area was transferred to Three Bridges.

 

The fictional sequel assumes that, when the station site was sold to Croydon Corporation in 1890 for the construction of a new Town Hall, that new Town Hall ended up being built elsewhere for one reason or another leaving the station site unused, other than for a sunken public garden, until well after the Great War. During that war, two adjacent RFC/RAF aerodromes had been built west of Croydon at Beddington and Waddon and in 1920 they were integrated to form London's first civil aerodrome under the name Croydon Airport. Somewhat rudimentary at first (as were the planes that used it), by 1925 there was an urgent need to upgrade it and the Croydon Airport Act of that year facilitated the construction of proper runways, plus terminal buildings alongside the new Purley Way. The two Great War aerodromes had been built with the aid of a railway siding which joined the LB&SCR west of its Waddon station, however this was unsuitable for passenger use and in fact the new Airport remained unserved by rail. However, with the former Croydon Central station site effectively unused and East Croydon soon to be part of the new 3rd rail Southern Electric network, it is possible to imagine a new electrified branch being constructed through the old station site to the new Airport terminal buildings on Purley Way. Less than two miles long, with a new 520 foot island platform Croydon Old Town station facing on to Croydon High Street, it would have been quite simple to construct and would have entailed surprisingly little destruction of property. This new station would have been provided with turn back facilities for both multiple-unit and loco-hauled trains. The line would have seen steam-hauled goods trains serving new factories located adjacent to Purley Way as well as a regular service of electric suburban trains and would have opened on 6 March 1928, the same day that 3rd rail electric trains started running between London Bridge and Caterham/Tattenham Corner via East Croydon, and only a few weeks after the new Airport terminal itself opened.

 

The LB&SCR had always retained the land between the Park Lane bridge and the main line and had gradually developed a significant civil engineer's yard on it, known as Fairfield Yard. This would have been retained initially, with modified connections to the new branch, but subsequently became redundant, closing in February 1933. Subsequent to its removal a new electrified lay-by loop would have been installed on the north side of the branch between the Old Town station and the junction.

 

When the Croydon area belatedly received colour light signalling in May 1955, the new East Croydon box would have assumed responsibility for the points and signals at Croydon Old Town, working Sykes Lock and Block to Croydon Airport which would have retained its 1928 mechanical signalling, albeit doubtless upgraded to upper quadrant.

 

croydoncent1868.jpg.009b9aeac54e8e889c9c20d21e8f760d.jpg

 

croydoncent1886.jpg.7c41a0d2306a98507d9eb34bd8aad751.jpg

 

croydoncent1894.jpg.141f0f208d7d393d64536dae66cdadb9.jpg

 

croydoncent1911.jpg.f6572a2890ef954981942d7b683c3d0f.jpg

 

croydoncent1928.jpg.7cd8586b496a571b4838acb5b1a711a6.jpg

 

croydoncent1933.jpg.e0a78294d5b70264cb93d8c82e4e7051.jpg

 

croydoncent1955.jpg.6d6e3e5dc5ea51258a3359aa3997bd95.jpg

Edited by bécasse
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16 hours ago, bécasse said:

The fictional sequel assumes that, when the station site was sold to Croydon Corporation in 1890 for the construction of a new Town Hall, that new Town Hall ended up being built elsewhere for one reason or another leaving the station site unused, other than for a sunken public garden, until well after the Great War. During that war, two adjacent RFC/RAF aerodromes had been built west of Croydon at Beddington and Waddon and in 1920 they were integrated to form London's first civil aerodrome under the name Croydon Airport. Somewhat rudimentary at first (as were the planes that used it), by 1925 there was an urgent need to upgrade it and the Croydon Airport Act of that year facilitated the construction of proper runways, plus terminal buildings alongside the new Purley Way. The two Great War aerodromes had been built with the aid of a railway siding which joined the LB&SCR west of its Waddon station, however this was unsuitable for passenger use and in fact the new Airport remained unserved by rail. However, with the former Croydon Central station site effectively unused and East Croydon soon to be part of the new 3rd rail Southern Electric network, it is possible to imagine a new electrified branch being constructed through the old station site to the new Airport terminal buildings on Purley Way. Less than two miles long, with a new 520 foot island platform Croydon Old Town station facing on to Croydon High Street, it would have been quite simple to construct and would have entailed surprisingly little destruction of property. This new station would have been provided with turn back facilities for both multiple-unit and loco-hauled trains. The line would have seen steam-hauled goods trains serving new factories located adjacent to Purley Way as well as a regular service of electric suburban trains and would have opened on 6 March 1928, the same day that 3rd rail electric trains started running between London Bridge and Caterham/Tattenham Corner via East Croydon, and only a few weeks after the new Airport terminal itself opened.

Apologies for spoiling a story with some facts, but just to set the record straight:

Beddington Aerodrome was created in December 1915, when portions of two farms, separated by Plough Lane, were requisitioned for RFC purposes.  The accommodation comprised  a number of what looked like prefabricated buildings, with the aircraft given protection in Bessoneau Hangars, canvas on wooden frames, the first places arriving in January 1916. Given the lightweight construction of everything, and the  use of grass runways, there was no need for a construction railway.

In 1917 it was decided to set up a National Aircraft Factory at Waddon, and the construction company, Cubitt, was given the contract, and constructed a goods only branch off the Waddon to Sutton line, which had to cross the Southmet Tramway along Stafford Road on the level, where it was the scene of at least one incident in its short life.  The plant was located some distance from the Beddington aerodrome, and, to allow the test flying of completed aircraft, more land was requisitioned and more Bessoneau Hangars erected, and the area became known as Waddon Aerodrome. After the war the premises were used initially as a Salvage Factory to process equipment brought back from France, and then as the Aircraft Disposal Company, where the public could buy whole planes or parts of them, until around 1930.

Whilst it is a nice idea to extend the railway through Central Croydon, it would not be an inexpensive operation. There was quite a lot of  development near the town centre to be dealt with, and the presence of Duppas Hill would have required the construction of a 600 yard viaduct, up to 50 feet high across the valley, as part of the 1½ mile branch.  The current Croydon Flyover demonstrates the impact this would have had:

1620971604_croydonflyover.jpg.d9f8d4452acbc299d92db9ab2f64dcd7.jpg

 

A branch from Waddon of around ½ mile would have involved far less earthworks. I am not aware of any railway assistance for the construction of the new 1928 terminal, which would probably have followed a similar route, but the works were not as major as other contemporary projects, such as the St Helier Housing Estate, and deliveries could presumably be entrusted to motor lorries.

 

Edited by Nick Holliday
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