Hornby: A Model World

[melmerby]

11 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Yeah but now they realise they can charge extra for it  !

It's all about the "prestige" models where a collectors version can be produced.

Even though pacifics were very much in a minority in the real world, much of Hornby's production is aimed at this area.

 

Who's going to pay extra for a Blackmotor or T9 in a Dublo box?

[Dunsignalling]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

It's all about the "prestige" models where a collectors version can be produced.

Even though pacifics were very much in a minority in the real world, much of Hornby's production is aimed at this area.

 

Who's going to pay extra for a Blackmotor or T9 in a Dublo box?

I'm currently "Peterising" yet another decaying T9 to save it from landfill and won't be buying more at any price, however fancy the box.

 

The metal bodies used on small locos are purely to prevent them being completely gutless performers, and some (like the T9) still need traction tyres as well....

 

My point is that, if Hornby want to include novelties like the under-development steam system into larger locos without unduly reducing their haulage ability, metal bodies may become a necessity rather than a marketing gimmick.

 

John 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Captain Kernow]

I saw the first programme the other day, having recorded it and I thought it was fab.

 

[RJS1977]

11 hours ago, Riddles said:

The steam effect did impress me but the gadgetry stuck on top of the tender looked very cumbersome and possibly difficult to miniaturise. I imagine a fair quantity of water would need to be stored on board to allow the effect to operate for any length of time. I hope I am proved wrong and that it will be introduced soon but perhaps it was just a kite flying exercise.

 

I suspect this was a 'proof of concept' version with the circuitry being essentially a home-made job using off-the-shelf components (the sort you can get from suppliers like Squires or Cricklewood Electronics). If Hornby decide to continue with development, then a miniaturised circuit board is likely to follow, but at the development and tweaking stage you need something you can build simply and swap components easily.

 

In terms of water duration, the obvious solution is working water cranes and troughs.....

[meatloaf]

I seem to recall the prototype TTS sound decoders had all the circuitary on the outside of the tender.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I spent some time on Sunday watching a variety of Gauge 1 steam locos in action. The only visible steam was from safety valves, due I  imagine from the rapid expansion of the steam into the atmosphere. None was visible from the chimneys., either when running or stationary with the blower on. That may have been influenced by the air temperature as the display layout was in a hall.

 

Videos of 5"gauge locos videos show little exhaust steam when working hardeven , although it is usually visible from safety valves and drain cocks.

 

Perhaps Hornby have found the right conditions of temperature and pressure to get water vapour droplets to form as the steam is emitted.

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I spent some time on Sunday watching a variety of Gauge 1 steam locos in action. The only visible steam was from safety valves, due I  imagine from the rapid expansion of the steam into the atmosphere. None was visible from the chimneys., either when running or stationary with the blower on. That may have been influenced by the air temperature as the display layout was in a hall.

 

Videos of 5"gauge locos videos show little exhaust steam when working hardeven , although it is usually visible from safety valves and drain cocks.

 

Perhaps Hornby have found the right conditions of temperature and pressure to get water vapour droplets to form as the steam is emitted.

If, indeed Hornby's device uses water (with or without additives).

 

Or maybe they just had the air-conditioning wound up to eleven.

 

John

Edited October 20, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Captain Kernow]

I've now just watched the second programme and I thought that was fab, too.

 

[John Harris]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I spent some time on Sunday watching a variety of Gauge 1 steam locos in action. The only visible steam was from safety valves, due I  imagine from the rapid expansion of the steam into the atmosphere. None was visible from the chimneys., either when running or stationary with the blower on. That may have been influenced by the air temperature as the display layout was in a hall.

 

Videos of 5"gauge locos videos show little exhaust steam when working hardeven , although it is usually visible from safety valves and drain cocks.

 

Perhaps Hornby have found the right conditions of temperature and pressure to get water vapour droplets to form as the steam is emitted.

 

I suspect that Hornby's aim is look like "what people expect" rather than reality, you are correct, most steam comes from around the cylinders, safety valves and whistles.

 

I understand too much steam or smoke coming out of the chimney is considered 'bad form' and some needs adjusting.

 

jch

[Ian Hargrave]

25 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I've now just watched the second programme and I thought that was fab, too.

 

And why not when there is so much ugly sordid tripe on media offer indulge in innocent fantasy. I heard not a word spoken in anger .A refreshing change.

 

 

 

 

[melmerby]

Isn't steam that has become visible actually water vapour, having condensed due to meeting a lower temperature?

Edited October 20, 2021 by melmerby

[BMS]

Surely steam coming out of the chimney from a steam engine is what the chimney is there for??

And some smoke ( apart from steam sanders, steam cocks) steam (and smoke) from anywhere ekse is a sign of inferior potential performance.

I was quite impressed by the Hornby display - it would be interesting to know how they do it - they've been there before with chuffs in the 70's I think

[Brian Indge]

TRS Trains have been installing a water based steam generator in locos for some time, so I suspect the Hornby fitting is similar. There are quite a few videos on YouTube. I believe the cost starts around £100.

[SamThomas]

Meanwhile, five years ago ;

 

 

Not quite as much water vapour as the Hornby prototype though.

 

I did think the Hornby prototype was impressive though, hopefuily, they will develope it properly so that it will be a credit to them.

[ovbulleid]

If Hornby can pull off the feat of fitting live steam to their new release tender engines, and re-release their TTS chips to work with them, then that is as significant as when they released Clan Line. If every loco they produce from 2022/2023 onwards comes with smoke, super detail and firebox glowing, then it will definitely return them to pole position of U.K. loco manufacturers

[Dunsignalling]

I don't quite get the current fetish for firebox glow. Except when actually firing, the firebox doors should be closed, so having a continuous glow is just plain wrong.

 

John

Edited October 21, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[RJS1977]

7 minutes ago, ovbulleid said:

If Hornby can pull off the feat of fitting live steam to their new release tender engines, and re-release their TTS chips to work with them, then that is as significant as when they released Clan Line. If every loco they produce from 2022/2023 onwards comes with smoke, super detail and firebox glowing, then it will definitely return them to pole position of U.K. loco manufacturers

 

I'm not sure making *every* loco they produce come with smoke and firebox glow is a good thing. Not everyone wants the extra fittings, and they all come at a price.

 

Better to make them 'optional' fittings as DCC and TTS are (although I can imagine the 'smoke' would be a much bigger job).

[Edge]

I love the smoke generator, but I’m not sure that I could a) afford to pay for it in every purchase or b) be happy to take it in concert with a sound decoder. Sound decoders just don’t sound right to me, particularly on steam engines.

 

Hornby I think will know that most modellers cannot or will not afford £300 for every loco in their collection so I think the smoke unit being standard is not going to happen. Can I foresee a new range of locos with it fitted? Yes I can. Possibly as the Dublo range perhaps?

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I don't quite get the current fetish for firebox glow. Except when actually firing, the firebox doors should be closed, so having a continuous glow is just plain wrong.

 

John

Further to that can anybody tell me why sprung buffers are considered so desirable ? They never appear to use their abilities, especially with the abscence of close coupling mechanisms on so many locomotives.

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, Edge said:

Sound decoders just don’t sound right to me, particularly on steam engines.

 

Could that be because the actual "chuff" sound usually comes from the wrong end of the locomotive ?

 

Once your ears get attuned to that it will never sound right (which is why I do not have a single steam outline locomotive with sound).

[ovbulleid]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I don't quite get the current fetish for firebox glow. Except when actually firing, the firebox doors should be closed, so having a continuous glow is just plain wrong.

 

John

A well set-up chip should mean that the glow only comes on when requested, rather than permanently, simultaneously with the sound coal going into the firebox

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Edge said:

 Sound decoders just don’t sound right to me, particularly on steam engines.

 

Agree. I don't think they sound anything like the real thing, although IMHO diesels are closer to reality.

 

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Could that be because the actual "chuff" sound usually comes from the wrong end of the locomotive ?

 

No. It's just the totally bass free sound that they make. It's not chuff, chuff, chuff but chiss, chiss, chiss...

If you are at an exhibition, standing around a metre away the end it comes from is barely determinable.

 

Don't anyone say "but they use bass reflex speakers" either, because they don't. In audio land speakers that small are tweeters!

 

A 25mm speaker cannot, I repeat cannot reproduce proper bass, at the frequencies generated by a reciprocating steam engine, that are needed for decent sound.

 

Tin hat on ready for the brick brats.

[Downer]

Agree that steam sound is usually not that great, but it’s still more realistic than silence.

[Not Jeremy]

14 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I don't quite get the current fetish for firebox glow. Except when actually firing, the firebox doors should be closed, so having a continuous glow is just plain wrong.

 

John

 

You're quite right, introduced in 1968 on the Triang "Flying Scotsman", ghastly modern nonsense, don't know whats wrong with people these days....

[Dunsignalling]

12 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

You're quite right, introduced in 1968 on the Triang "Flying Scotsman", ghastly modern nonsense, don't know whats wrong with people these days....

I think the reason it's become popular may be simply that it's an extra "feature" that can be added at very little cost.

 

John