British Finescale simple to assemble turnout Kits - All Rail EM Gauge B7 L/H Prototype - First Look

[martin_wynne]

49 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

I've done this on purpose as it was a convenient way of labelling the parts with the least amount of terms, due to the design of separate rails at the knuckle. So I'm labelling in favour of the kit and the way it's put together, it's deliberate

 

Hi Wayne,

 

OK, I understand that. But I would have coined a new term rather than re-use one which is used elsewhere to mean something else. That's a recipe for confusion when builders cross-reference your kits with other suppliers and information.

 

How about calling the rails the "wing front rail" and the "wing reach rail"? That's two different names, and not too far from the prototype terms.

 

Also, when you get to longer turnouts, you may want to supply the switch rails and closure rails separately. For packaging purposes and/or the table size on your miller, and then you will be stuck for a name for them.

 

Sorry to be a thorn in your flesh.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

11 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Sorry to be a thorn in your flesh.

 

Don't worry, I'm built for it

[hayfield]

 

I think quite often for many turnout terminology can be confusing, especially when certain words mean different things to different people, "points" is one in question

 

Quite often seeing the piece in question stops any confusion.

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

I did some CAD work last night on the middle section of an EM double slip, I really wanted to see what it looked like!

 

Not bad for a first CAD revision, I think!

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Wayne Kinney

[KeithHC]

Well done again Wayne they look great. It looks like me the ham fisted modeller will be able to put one together as well. My dream of being able to model in EM is becoming very much a reality. Just need to convert my slim Jim.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

As they say in Cornwall "Proper Job"  Wayne it Looks a very good piece of kit, well done.

 

I knew you were up to something

[NFWEM57]

21 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

I did some CAD work last night on the middle section of an EM double slip, I really wanted to see what it looked like!

 

Not bad for a first CAD revision, I think!

 

Christmas appears to be round the corner..!

[wilks]

On 27/11/2021 at 15:00, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

I did some CAD work last night on the middle section of an EM double slip, I really wanted to see what it looked like!

 

Not bad for a first CAD revision, I think!

 

This looks fantastic.

[Damo666]

On 27/11/2021 at 15:00, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

I did some CAD work last night on the middle section of an EM double slip, I really wanted to see what it looked like!

 

Not bad for a first CAD revision, I think!

 

@Wayne Kinney Is that a CAD image I'm looking at, or a photograph of a 3D print / assembly?

 

Truly impressed if this is a CAD visualisation (and truly impressed if it's a photograph real physical piece of track).

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Damo666
Typo

[martin_wynne]

4 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

Truly impressed if this is a CAD visualisation (and truly impressed if it's a photograph real physical piece of track).

 

It's partly out of focus, so it must be a photograph. CAD renderings don't do out of focus.

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

7 hours ago, Damo666 said:

Is that a CAD image I'm looking at, or a photocraph of a 3D print / assembly?

 

Truly impressed if this is a CAD visualisation (and truly impressed if it's a photograph real physical piece of track).

Sure, it's a real photo, thanks!

[Wayne Kinney]

7 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

CAD renderings don't do out of focus.

Unless you add a depth of field effect in the renderer 

[SteveCornford]

Hi Wayne,

Any chance of a photo of one of the switch ends of the double slip?

 

Steve

[Wayne Kinney]

2 hours ago, SteveCornford said:

Any chance of a photo of one of the switch ends of the double slip?

Sorry, not done yet  I was only working on the obtuse crossing area...

[martin_wynne]

47 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Sorry, not done yet  I was only working on the obtuse crossing area...

 

Hi Wayne,

 

It doesn't matter how fast you work, folks will be asking for the next bit. If you had shown a full 1:7 double slip they would be asking if the 1:8 is ready yet.

 

Are you managing to keep up with production of the N gauge Finetrax range at the same time? There is a very attractive layout using it in the latest (Jan 2022) issue of BRM magazine. Meldon West, p.48.

 

Presumably it's ok to infringe Warner's copyright on Warner's own forum, if not no doubt this pic will soon get removed.

 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited November 29, 2021 by martin_wynne

[Wayne Kinney]

25 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Are you managing to keep up with production of the N gauge Finetrax range at the same time?

Yes keeping up with the N Gauge stuff, but I'm sure it will get busier once I upgrade them to the new kit style. They are still on the old style of cutting chairs from sprues and inserted into the holes

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Wayne Kinney

[faa77]

Sorry if this is a daft question but if Peco now produce ready-made EM points for the EMSG, what is the purpose behind this?

 

Is it Peco/EMSG only produce flexi and B6, whereas you're producing many more different turnouts?

 

Thanks,

[NFWEM57]

5 hours ago, faa77 said:

Sorry if this is a daft question but if Peco now produce ready-made EM points for the EMSG, what is the purpose behind this?

 

Is it Peco/EMSG only produce flexi and B6, whereas you're producing many more different turnouts?

 

Thanks,

Wayne will no doubt answer shortly but you have hit the nail on the head, PECO only produce flexi and B6 for the EMGS.   Wayne, as far as I am aware is going to produce a wide range of all rail simple to assemble points in a variety of gauges and in a far shorter timeline than PECO; for some gauges, never before available.  For me the point of his range is access to all the point work I will need for my proposed layout over the next 12 months or so, at moderate cost and without all the complications of hand building products from other sources.  It may not suite everybody and there will always be detractors.  Have a look at the British Finescale website N gauge range to see what might well be produced over the coming months and years.  Note Wayne has indicated he will be converting the N gauge range to the new simple to assemble format.  Finally, Wayne does not pay me to send replies, I am just happy that his EM gauge products finally exist otherwise I might well not have bothered to switch to EM.

[martin_wynne]

6 hours ago, faa77 said:

Sorry if this is a daft question but if Peco now produce ready-made EM points for the EMSG, what is the purpose behind this?

 

Is it Peco/EMSG only produce flexi and B6, whereas you're producing many more different turnouts?

 

In addition to the wide range of sizes for turnouts and also for diamond-crossings and slips, this new range of pointwork is supplied as kits. That means they can be cut and hacked and kit-bashed to whatever you want -- and most importantly they can be built curved. Which means that eventually you will be able to build something like this entirely from these kits:

 

 

The Peco/EMGS turnouts are straight. See if you can spot any straight track above.

 

Great swathes of the traditional bullhead railway was curved, and in fitting it into a small model space we often need to curve it even more. It may be possible to curve a Peco turnout a fraction, but not by much if it is supplied ready built. In assembling a kit on a curved template it can be built to almost any radius.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

8 hours ago, faa77 said:

Sorry if this is a daft question but if Peco now produce ready-made EM points for the EMSG, what is the purpose behind this?

 

Is it Peco/EMSG only produce flexi and B6, whereas you're producing many more different turnouts?

 

Thanks,

 

Its a good question to ask but there are many reasons I can think of why its a good financial proposition for Wayne, certainly the initial response is very favourable 

 

Peco firstly do not sell the EM gauge products, simply Joe public have no access to these items unless they are either an EMGS member, go to one of their shows which has a trade stall (and stock) or have a friend who is a member

 

Next up this is a very niece market, if Peco got involved in making a range would their financial investment be returned within an acceptable (for them) time frame

 

Wayne uses a different production method, which I guess over time will become mainstream. But differs from injection moulding

 

Finally these are kits, Peco sell ready to run items, granted they have been promoting their track building parts lately, but not expanded them

 

No doubt Peco will be keeping an eye on their market dominance and we have seen their reaction to one major company looking to move into it. Plus Peco seem to be very active investing in new technology. 

[Chuffer Davies]

To avoid confusion I recommend we stop talking about Peco EM track work.  Peco do not sell EM gauge track.  This track work is produced by the EMGS for sale to its members. The factory that produces EMGS track work is owned by Peco but that is where their involvement ends.  
 

I’m guessing that the market for EM track work is sufficiently small to be unviable to Peco, but is best suited to specialist suppliers such as the EMGS and Wayne.

 

Keep up the good work Wayne.

 

Regards,

Frank

[martin_wynne]

16 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

To avoid confusion I recommend we stop talking about Peco EM track work.  Peco do not sell EM gauge track.  This track work is produced by the EMGS for sale to its members. The factory that produces EMGS track work is owned by Peco but that is where their involvement ends.  

 

It's not quite that simple -- Peco have themselves promoted their involvement with the EMGS. This from the October 2021 issue of Railway Modeller (my red):

 

 

Whereas normally the manufacturer of an own-brand product keeps quiet about it. But this does suggest that Peco have no intention of competing with their EMGS customer by introducing their own EM track.

 

Martin.

[Chuffer Davies]

7 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

It's not quite that simple -- Peco have themselves promoted their involvement with the EMGS. This from the October 2021 issue of Railway Modeller (my red):

 

 

Whereas normally the manufacturer of an own-brand product keeps quiet about it. But this does suggest that Peco have no intention of competing with their EMGS customer by introducing their own EM track.

 

Martin.

Hi Martin,

I don’t see any contradiction. What they have printed is accurate.  I’ sure there are factories in China that are responsible for manufacturing British RTR rolling stock.   Hornby etc. would be correctly upset if railway modellers started describing their products as being Chinacorp products and omitting reference to Hornby.  The same I suggest applies to the EMGS who should be given credit for the product they sell to members and not Peco who no doubt are one of several potential manufacturers approached at the time.

 Credit where credit is due, that’s all I’m saying.

Enough?

Frank

 

[hayfield]

11 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Martin,

I don’t see any contradiction. What they have printed is accurate.  I’ sure there are factories in China that are responsible for manufacturing British RTR rolling stock.   Hornby etc. would be correctly upset if railway modellers started describing their products as being Chinacorp products and omitting reference to Hornby.  The same I suggest applies to the EMGS who should be given credit for the product they sell to members and not Peco who no doubt are one of several potential manufacturers approached at the time.

 Credit where credit is due, that’s all I’m saying.

Enough?

Frank

 

 

Frank

 

In one way you are quite right its a product funded by the EMGS for its own members and I guess those who go to one of their shows and become members for the day

 

However its its a bit like others products Hover for example where the brand becomes the product. No one says they are Dysoning their carpet !!  Peco quite rightly is a gold standard in trackwork, which everything else is compared to, plus I think the EMGS is very eager for it to be known that Peco has made their track. Its equally serves both parties

 

 Wayne's has produced a super, high quality and easy to build product(s) 

 

I am waiting for the next thread where someone starts to adapt them

[martin_wynne]

21 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Credit where credit is due, that’s all I’m saying.

Enough?

 

That's not all you were saying. You suggested that Peco should not be mentioned in relation to the EMGS track, when in fact Peco themselves are doing that.

 

But sure, enough is enough. This topic is about FinetraX, not Peco or EMGS.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.