Bachmann 009 Double Fairlie

[halsey]

Just now, PaulRhB said:

What’s the issue? If the point has a bump in it the fixed pony truck wheel can lift the drivers off. Both my Baldwins are fine over points and the only issue was the fixed pony axle lifting the front two drivers on a bump making it spin. 

 

They just (sometimes) stop - only needs the minutest nudge and all is good again

[rynd2it]

4 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

They just (sometimes) stop - only needs the minutest nudge and all is good again

That happened with mine at first, sent it back to TMC and they tested and adjusted it. Now it runs fine, the problem is caused by the pickups actually losing contact with all the wheels on one side, they adjusted the pickups. A stay alive would probably help but there is no room for one.

 

[PaulRhB]

4 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Is that as compared with others (Baldwin?) or are these your only locos 

 

I’ve got three Fairlies, two Baldwins and quite a lot more 009 incl the Heljan L&B locos. My Fairlies  

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, halsey said:

Which local shops - DCC ?

 

Could you PM me if you don't want to get in to retailer promotion on here 

 

Thanks

 

AC models in Eastleigh and Salisbury model centre, Dec at Salisbury always tests locos but doesn’t have a website for sales but will sell over the phone. 
AC didn’t test them as I didn’t ask but as it’s local I don’t worry. 
 

They were both sound fitted along with the collectors club one too. DCC fitting is simple as the socket is beneath the plate shown in the pdf on the bottom of the loco. 

[halsey]

12 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I’ve got three Fairlies, two Baldwins and quite a lot more 009 incl the Heljan L&B locos. My Fairlies  

 

 

 

 

 

 

AC models in Eastleigh and Salisbury model centre, Dec at Salisbury always tests locos but doesn’t have a website for sales but will sell over the phone. 
AC didn’t test them as I didn’t ask but as it’s local I don’t worry. 
 

They were both sound fitted along with the collectors club one too. DCC fitting is simple as the socket is beneath the plate shown in the pdf on the bottom of the loco. 

 

Are you running on Peco Electrofrog out of the box or modified?

 

I was previously unaware of electrofrog mods as my OO layout is all insulfrog and all runs fine but the 009 issue may in part be due to scale and "flimsy" turnout blades not making good electrical mechanical contact as sometime pressure on the blades can solve the problem without touching the loco

 

My 009 turnouts are all hand operated but is there a non switching wiring mod which works that I can easily do 

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Are you running on Peco Electrofrog out of the box or modified?

 

I was previously unaware of electrofrog mods as my OO layout is all insulfrog and all runs fine but the 009 issue may in part be due to scale and "flimsy" turnout blades not making good electrical mechanical contact as sometime pressure on the blades can solve the problem without touching the loco

 

My 009 turnouts are all hand operated but is there a non switching wiring mod which works that I can easily do 

Mine are modified, wired for DCC with a cut in the rails and jumpers to the blades as that is the main reason for unreliability which DCC locos are more picky about. 
I modify them before laying but it is possible to do after. 
On the modules I just have a single pole slide switch that changes the point and polarity. You can just see it in front of the coal wagon. 

[halsey]

3 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Mine are modified, wired for DCC with a cut in the rails and jumpers to the blades as that is the main reason for unreliability which DCC locos are more picky about. 
I modify them before laying but it is possible to do after. 
On the modules I just have a single pole slide switch that changes the point and polarity. You can just see it in front of the coal wagon. 

 

Can a worthwhile mod be done without any external switching as I haven't got room - its a poor photo but shows the "congestion".

[PaulRhB]

23 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Can a worthwhile mod be done without any external switching as I haven't got room - its a poor photo but shows the "congestion".

Ah yes not easy, another solution might be to put a very slight bend in the very tip of the blade to put more pressure on the rail contact point. You barely want to see it’s bent but it does work as I’ve used it at a show before I started modifying them before installation. It also means you know exactly where to clean the contacts. 
I just lightly push the very end over with a cocktail stick or similar, if you over bend it just push it back. You don’t want it to show a gap when the blade closes, just increase the contact pressure a bit. 

[halsey]

17 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Ah yes not easy, another solution might be to put a very slight bend in the very tip of the blade to put more pressure on the rail contact point. You barely want to see it’s bent but it does work as I’ve used it at a show before I started modifying them before installation. It also means you know exactly where to clean the contacts. 
I just lightly push the very end over with a cocktail stick or similar, if you over bend it just push it back. You don’t want it to show a gap when the blade closes, just increase the contact pressure a bit. 

 

Thanks,

 

Peco tech (Andrew is VERY helpful) are adamant that you must not bend or modify other than diligently clean the contact surfaces which seems logical to me as if there is a mod surely they would do it in production.

 

Hence my interest in the longer pickup wheel base of the Double Fairlie 

 

Out of interest what (min) radius curves are you running on there

 

Cheers

Edited April 28, 2022 by halsey

[Roy Langridge]

Like @PaulRhBI too have modified points and have had no issues.

 

I have three Baldwin, two Small Englands,  two Fairlies and three Manning Wardles. The Fairlies are as good as the Baldwins although to be quite honest, one needed a much longer running-in period than the other before it ran as sweetly.

 

Roy

[halsey]

1 minute ago, Roy Langridge said:

Like @PaulRhBI too have modified points and have had no issues.

 

I have three Baldwin, two Small Englands,  two Fairlies and three Manning Wardles. The Fairlies are as good as the Baldwins although to be quite honest, one needed a much longer running-in period than the other before it ran as sweetly.

 

Roy

 

I assume your solution involves switching - this might be OK if I decide to undertake a complete rebuild but it won't help my immediate issue as covered above.

 

Thanks

[PaulRhB]

2 minutes ago, halsey said:

Peco tech (Andrew is VERY helpful) are adamant that you must not bend or modify other than diligently clean the contact surfaces which seems logical to me as if there is a mod surely they would do it in production.

 

They won’t recommend any mods that could come back to haunt them in claims so they will always tell you to just clean them. I’m aware I’ve invalidated them warranty and no issues with Peco’s stance on that 😉

 

2 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Out of interest what (min) radius curves are you running on there

Mostly 18” although some sidings down to 12” absolute minimum. 

[Roy Langridge]

10 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

I assume your solution involves switching - this might be OK if I decide to undertake a complete rebuild but it won't help my immediate issue as covered above.

 

Thanks

 

Yes - they are modified the same as Paul's.

 

I can see the issue you have but if you can find a way to retro-fit modified points, with switching, you will really benefit.

Roy

[halsey]

7 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Yes - they are modified the same as Paul's.

 

I can see the issue you have but if you can find a way to retro-fit modified points, with switching, you will really benefit.

Roy

 

Sorry to bang on about this but from your experience will/does a double fairlie improve running over std turnouts 

[rynd2it]

11 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Sorry to bang on about this but from your experience will/does a double fairlie improve running over std turnouts 

The Double Fairlie runs fine as it is, as does my Baldwin and a Roco shunter. None of them require any modifications to the standard Peco 009 points. I had done mods such as cutting the blade rails as recommended elsewhere and it was a disaster. I bought all new points and all the running issues went away. Again as mentioned elsewhere 009 trackwork really needs to be laid to a very fine standard, slightest kinks/bumps etc will cause poor running; its well worth the effort to get it spot on.

 

You should arrange for the frog to be polarised and switched independently of the blade/stock rail contact which is unreliable. How you achieve this depends on how you actually move the blades - I am using servos and there are two microswitches on the MERG servo bracket, id you are using the Peco point motor add the switch that Peco makes to the motor. Or you can use a slide switch to operate the blades via 'wire-in-tube' and the slide switch operates the polarity.

 

[halsey]

Just a thought might I be having issues in part due to my turnout choice I am using the "irregular"  sleeper turnouts not the mainline sleeper type - they are shorter which was why I chose them but do they have a smaller blade contact surface is the blade/spring itself any better/worse

 

All of my questions are more focussed on my potential rebuild to 100% 009 not so much my current mini 009 element on my OO layout which was built to "trial" 009 issues such as this 

[rynd2it]

46 minutes ago, halsey said:

Just a thought might I be having issues in part due to my turnout choice I am using the "irregular"  sleeper turnouts not the mainline sleeper type - they are shorter which was why I chose them but do they have a smaller blade contact surface is the blade/spring itself any better/worse

 

All of my questions are more focussed on my potential rebuild to 100% 009 not so much my current mini 009 element on my OO layout which was built to "trial" 009 issues such as this 

All mine are the same, not a problem

[halsey]

I think I have decided to try a "frog juicer" to see if that will solve the problem

[rynd2it]

19 minutes ago, halsey said:

I think I have decided to try a "frog juicer" to see if that will solve the problem

Its a solution which has worked for some - bit pricey though.  How are you activating the turnout?

 

 

[halsey]

11 minutes ago, rynd2it said:

Its a solution which has worked for some - bit pricey though.  How are you activating the turnout?

 

 

 

Manually

[rynd2it]

6 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Manually

You might want to think about alternatives - a single frog juicer can cost around £30; I operate 11 turnouts on my layout using servos and microswitches for less than the cost of one juicer.  £330 for my layout would be WAY beyond the realms of possibility, especially if SWMBO found out ;)

 

[halsey]

2 minutes ago, rynd2it said:

You might want to think about alternatives - a single frog juicer can cost around £30; I operate 11 turnouts on my layout using servos and microswitches for less than the cost of one juicer.  £330 for my layout would be WAY beyond the realms of possibility, especially if SWMBO found out ;)

 

 

<£100 for 8 turnouts from Coastal DCC so that's not too bad (I understand the SWMBO issue!) - don't have space for motors and switches see earlier photo

J

[E100]

Model Railways Direct have most models in stock and at about 35% off RRP.

 

i have no affiliation but am thinking of getting a second at this price!

[bubbles2]

I know Bachman give the minimum radius for the Fairlie as 12 inches but has anyone tried it round sharper curves than this? I’m building a minimum sized round and round layout and a little sharper curves than 12 inches would be useful.

[Butler Henderson]

As per an eariier posting  goes fine round Fleischmann No.1 curves - 192mm radius (7.5 inch)

[tractionman]

On 20/06/2022 at 05:01, E100 said:

Model Railways Direct have most models in stock and at about 35% off RRP.

 

i have no affiliation but am thinking of getting a second at this price!

 

now at £140 DCC ready!

 

https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/oo9/Bachmann-narrow-gauge-391-102-ffestiniog-railway-double-fairlie-earl-of-merioneth-fr-lined-green/

 

looking tempting...

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by tractionman