Hornby 2022 Range - pre-announcement frothing - now closed

[Phatbob]

Given that Honby reused the undergubbins from their 2BIL to produce a 2HAL without the expense of designing and tooling the whole thing, how about a "tin HAL" please uncle Simon?  The same trick would work again for you. :-)

[Metr0Land]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

It's not just green they have to worry about.

 

I thought you didn't mind 50 shades of yellow

[newbryford]

11 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

I thought you didn't mind 50 shades of yellow

 

I've more of a problem with shades of a 50......

[stewartingram]

3 hours ago, Matty P said:

All I want is an updated Claud with the fancy valances in BR Apple Green!

Going off at a tangent (slightly), am I right in thinking there were 2 D16/3 painted like this; the other one being without the decorative valance (as per Hornby)?

Edited December 26, 2021 by stewartingram

[Matty P]

17 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Going off at a tangent (slightly), am I right in thinking there were 2 D16/3 painted like this; the oer one being without the decorative valance (as per Hornby)?

Yes, that one & 62614, which was the one that Hornby could easily do now. I don't think they carried that livery for long, but both were kept in pretty good conditions being used for royal trains for Sandringham. I have emailed Hornby about at least doing 62614 in that livery a while ago, so fingers crossed for their announcement....

[Big James]

My 2 cents worth of realistic wish listing which I know will probably be wrong:

 

SECR O1 class

SECR D1/E1 class
SR U class 

SR Q class

GWR saint class

BR standard 2MT tank

 

Due to the release of the SR luggage van with LSWR chassis I think a range of LSWR coaches to go on it is feasible. 

 

[Aire Head]

On 24/12/2021 at 09:48, rovex said:

The Coronation Scot coaches in their non coronation guise. An easy win that one surely.

 

 

 

To me this is the most obvious (and most exciting) thing that they could do.

[sga962]

I've given up hope at this point but...

 

Relevant to my interests:

• A retooled eurostar (fix the errors, include a cab, lights, nose coupler, the other 14 coaches)
• Desiro City (700,707, and 717 around now and could probably do a 185 with a little bit of work)
• Meridian (Would be more likely from Bachmann)
• 395 trainbow (with the nose coupler that was originally meant to be included, the interior of the cab roof fixed, and for once the yellow end panels to be right)
• EMT HST re run
• Electrostar (how has one of these not been done yet?)
• Pretty much any other train that's ever run to St Pancras post-rebuild XD
• 08948

Things I'd buy even if they don't fit my future layout:

• Flirt (the 745 just looks so nice)
• Networker (465 and 466, wouldn't need too much update)
• the 2 pendolino cars to be able to make a prototypical 11 car

[wombatofludham]

I said it last year, and it didn't happen, so I'll say it again this year confident it won't happen. Again.

A TTS sound chip for the 87.

Given even plain, non-noise sound chips are a mare to fit to the 87 because Hornby clearly don't fully grasp DCC and left virtually no room for the decoder, I doubt they will find a suitable slim line older tech chip they can use at the price point they aim for in TTS but we can hope.  If upgraded with a decent slimline speaker, TTS chips aren't as bad as some think, their Valenta chips are good even with the default 20mm x 40mm speakers, and the "Hornby Mag" Rail Exclusive speaker upgrade suggestion for the Class 31 TTS chip transforms that into something useful.  I'd happily stump up for a TTS 87 chip even with 5 to fit.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

6 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

well I got this for Christmas

 

OK, set the Delorean to 1962…

 

Coincidently, 60 years ago next year, 2022!

 

And therefore, 70 years since Tri-ang Railways was launched in 1952, after Rovex Plastics Ltd. became a part of Lines Bros…

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo

[JohnR]

3 hours ago, Matty P said:

Yes, that one & 62614, which was the one that Hornby could easily do now. I don't think they carried that livery for long, but both were kept in pretty good conditions being used for royal trains for Sandringham. I have emailed Hornby about at least doing 62614 in that livery a while ago, so fingers crossed for their announcement....

 

I wonder if there will be anything Royal Train related, given the Platinum Jubilee next year?

[gwrrob]

17 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I wonder if there will be anything Royal Train related, given the Platinum Jubilee next year?

 

Probably some tacky wagon for the collectors market.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Hoping for the return of 'Design Clever'.............

 

manna

[Phatbob]

5 minutes ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Hoping for the return of 'Design Clever'.............

 

manna

 

[gwrrob]

8 minutes ago, manna said:

Hoping for the return of 'Design Clever'.............

 

It's never gone away.

[Les1952]

I'll only chip in a small number of thoughts.

 

a.  The N2 is a Hornby inheritance by two routes - Hornby Dublo and whichever producer brought it the more recent model.  The prototype is due to return to steam in 2022 after a protracted overhaul, delayed from its centenary year.  An open goal for Hornby to miss?

 

b.  If I had a shotgun put to my head for the next "Hornby Dublo" model my vote would be the Castle - it fits the "big steam" brief and covers the one of the big four missed so far.

 

c.  Left field would be to complete the A2s with the A2/1 or even do Great Northern, which even after rebuilding had the vast majority of parts in common with A3s and most of the rest with Thompson's A2s.

 

I've usually been wrong before and these are my inaccurate punts for this year......

 

Les

[Matty P]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

I wonder if there will be anything Royal Train related, given the Platinum Jubilee next year?

I'm cautiously hopeful; I did suggest the idea as a train pack with 62614 & some pullmans for a royal train.... Even as a republican, I'd happily buy it

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

I wonder if there will be anything Royal Train related, given the Platinum Jubilee next year?

4082 Windsor Castle in the Hornby Dublo Range would be nice.

 

[Steamport Southport]

32 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

4082 Windsor Castle in the Hornby Dublo Range would be nice.

 

 

What one though?

 

There were two 4082 Windsor Castles....

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_cas_40827013.htm

[Standards_in_OO]

34 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

4082 Windsor Castle in the Hornby Dublo Range would be nice.

 

I’d buy a Dublo Castle in a shot….although I should probably check what type of BR green it is! 
 

Going to more modern image the Staycation Express HST should be a given as they have done the existing Staycation train this year. Surely they should be doing a TPE 800 after hinting it in 2020 and would imagine is a bit of an open goal. 

[mdvle]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Additionally i’m not suggesting Railroad.

 

In which case you aren't really suggesting anything that is going to save significant money.

 

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’m saying “features and accessories are sold separately”…

 

Same tooling but youve a choice to DIY lights, people, smoke, sound, DCC, extra cars or not, and how much of it you buy. 

 

But how many multiple units are currently coming with people or smoke so those features can be left out?

 

As for lights, not really something that is practical for most to add as a separate item.

 

DCC/Sound already is an extra cost option.

 

Extra cars won't be tooled if only a small percentage of buyers buy them (on the assumption that they require unique tooling).  So either it will be a full length multiple unit or a short version.

 

So your not really proposing anything that is going to save any money, other than perhaps the omitting of some intermediate cars.

 

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The alternative is to continue moving up the funnel to an ever narrower market for the product at a higher point until it becomes unsustainable (which is where MUs seems to be nearing towards to in its current format and maybe why so few are offered).

 

The MU issue is based on perception - the manufacturers think that people won't pay for more than a 2 or occasional 3 car MU and it gets repeated as a fact.

 

But no one has yet tested the market to find out if that conventional wisdom is correct or not (at least not in a meaningful way).

 

Yet the Blue Pullman was a success, the Class 800 is a success, and more recently Accurascale's Mk5 coaches (sold in packs and not individually) have apparently been a success - which seems to directly contradict the MU's won't sell wisdom.

 

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Yet the Blue Pullman was a success, the Class 800 is a success, and more recently Accurascale's Mk5 coaches (sold in packs and not individually) have apparently been a success - which seems to directly contradict the MU's won't sell wisdom.

 

 

Was it though?

 

As we never got the one the vast amount of people wanted and was mentioned at the time that we might get if it was a success.  Obviously it wasn't.

 

We got the short Midland version rather than the full length eight car WR version.

 

They couldn't even give away the ones with the yellow ends They mostly ended in the bargain bins for about £150.

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

In which case you aren't really suggesting anything that is going to save significant money.

 

 

But how many multiple units are currently coming with people or smoke so those features can be left out?

 

As for lights, not really something that is practical for most to add as a separate item.

 

DCC/Sound already is an extra cost option.

 

Extra cars won't be tooled if only a small percentage of buyers buy them (on the assumption that they require unique tooling).  So either it will be a full length multiple unit or a short version.

 

So your not really proposing anything that is going to save any money, other than perhaps the omitting of some intermediate cars.

 

 

The MU issue is based on perception - the manufacturers think that people won't pay for more than a 2 or occasional 3 car MU and it gets repeated as a fact.

 

But no one has yet tested the market to find out if that conventional wisdom is correct or not (at least not in a meaningful way).

 

Yet the Blue Pullman was a success, the Class 800 is a success, and more recently Accurascale's Mk5 coaches (sold in packs and not individually) have apparently been a success - which seems to directly contradict the MU's won't sell wisdom.

 

I think you may need a little more research.

 

Hornbys made more Multiple units than any other company, my count (I think ive got the order release order right)…18

 

Triang MetCam DMU, Triang Bil, 110, 142, 155, 156, 121, 466, 395, Vep,  153, Belle, Bil, Hal plus  APT, Pendolino, Azuma & Eurostar.

 

of that lot, they have offered separately centre cars for the Metcam, Bil, 110, 156, Belle, Pendo, Azuma and Eurostar… which is just about everyone they could possibly do.

 

I dont think anyone other than Rapido’s APT-E have done this approach, but its something Hornby has successfully made work.

my thought is…

There isnt a saving*, what there is is value add upsell revenue that leads to greater volume sales, which reduces risk, lowers per sku amortisation, which preserves margin but lowers individual sku cost.

Simply..

You buy the base unit, then buyers choose what bits they want to upgrade… more stock, more lights etc..

 

(* what you save in assembly, you lose to packaging the optional bits).

an theoretical fag packet example might be..

If you think 1000 people can afford £500 for a unit, that costs c£200 each + amortisation per sku to make, theres a possibility you might sell 1500 at £400, and 1000 of them will spend £150 on bits to get that max-fax unit.

So you've sold 500 additional units that may not have otherwise sold, off the same tooling and amortizing that sale over a greater number of pieces, preserving your margin and reducing the risk, and still maintained that £500 sale on the other 1000. (Ok with packaging etc it might be slightly higher cost, but those who want it, will find a way).

 

Bottom line, the higher the price, the less customers your going to get, which means amortization is greater per unit. Plus adding ever greater detail increases ever greater assembly line cost even further. There is a limit beyond which it doesn't work.

 

Preserving quality but separating that detail into optional extras makes the base build more attractive for volume and widens the market whilst still catering for those who want more. (today in its primitive form its called the parts bag and it comes free in the box, tomorrow, theres several parts bags and you pay for them separately).

 

The alternative is high cost, high detail, low volume sales, which carry much higher financial risk, and hence where we are now, where they just are not made.

 

For example, I think the £450 3 car class 104 without sound, is going to come a cropper myself. Whilst demand is there, its a price point thats new to everyone, even in Europe and think its going to struggle. Yet its loaded with features which are irrelevant to a substantial part of the market and could move its value from positive to negative for them to justify.

 

I will also point out Hornbys own moves on the Belle, they recognised the redundancy of DCC fittings, and how it was distorting price, and subsequently removed the high cost couplings etc on the 3rd batch and reverted back to basics.

 

So let me stop justifying your negatives, and instead ask how would you do it ? or would you just not bother making it at all ? - in which case your just dissenting as your not interested anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by adb968008

[RyanN91]

3 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

I wonder if there will be anything Royal Train related, given the Platinum Jubilee next year?

Last year at that Q&A YouTube video thing that Simon and Montana did this time last year. Simon said he's aware it's Queen Elizabeth II Platinum Jubilee 70th in 2022. So Perhaps a other Royal theme Train set will be seen again with Resin brass-effect maker's plate and a Limited edition certificate. Like the 2012 Diamond Jubilee set (pictured)

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Was it though?

 

As we never got the one the vast amount of people wanted and was mentioned at the time that we might get if it was a success.  Obviously it wasn't.

 

We got the short Midland version rather than the full length eight car WR version.

 

They couldn't even give away the ones with the yellow ends They mostly ended in the bargain bins for about £150.

 

 

 

Jason

That yellow dipped cab end version should never have been made, it was just too ugly.

Thats the reason it ended in the bargain bin.

 

The plain blue one became quite hard to find after a while.

 

Lets not forget back in 2013, everything was in the bargain bin, from the moment it was announced, even before it was made… the industry was cut throat margins on every release.

 

It was flawed as most people only need 1, max 2 of them.

I bet Bachmann sold far more class 105/8/DLWs…

A quick count I think ive 11 class 150/2’s alone… (2xRR, 2x Prov, 1x GM, 1x MR, 1x GWR, 2x Northern, 1ATW, 1x Midline).. admittedly i’ve been a bit aggressive when it comes to getting the price i’m prepared to pay, and noticed s/h prices have doubled in the last year, nixing my EMU conversion projects.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by adb968008