MSC Kitson 0-6-0T build from 88D models kit

[Mol_PMB]

My Christmas present to myself is a new loco kit to suit my Manchester Ship Canal Railway model theme.

 

The Manchester Ship Canal Railway had seven large Kitson 0-6-0Ts among its fleet of smaller tank engines; these were as follows:

MSC 36, Kitson 4295/1904

MSC 72, Kitson 5357/1921

MSC 73, Kitson 5370/1923

MSC 74, Kitson 5371/1923

MSC 80, Kitson 5412/1927

MSC 81, Kitson 5422/1928

MSC 82, Kitson 5423/1928

These locos all had very similar appearance and dimensions, though there were small variations in length depending on whether a rear bunker was fitted.

I recently was fortunate to win an auction for an original numberplate from MSC 80, and thought it would be nice to build a model of the same loco.

Here's a nice photo of 80 when new, from Don Thorpe's book on the MSC Railways:

 

What I had not realised until very recently was that Kitson built superficially similar locos for several other companies, including collieries and main-line companies. For example, Kitson 5357 was an MSC loco but the almost identical-looking 5358 went to Coppice Colliery. Kitson 5182/1919 was supplied to the Cardiff Railway as their number 7, became GWR 685 and later worked at various collieries. This led me to the kit for the latter loco available from 88D models, which builds up like this (photo from the 88D models website):

 

In this thread I will describe the kit build including the modifications I'll need to make to represent MSC 80 which was a slightly later loco than GWR 685 and had avoided the attentions of Swindon Works.

 

[Marshall5]

Hi Mol.  Sounds like an interesting project.  I can't remember if you've had this photo of Kitson 73 given to me by my late friend Jim Peden but I've attached it anyway. Presumably you're aware of the Hunslet and Hudswell (long & short tanks) in Dave Ragstone's Agenoria kit range  http://www.ragstonemodels.co.uk/agenoria.html  .  I believe these are examples of the earlier (and better IMO) Agenoria kits.  Looking forward to following the Kitson build.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Hi Ray,

 

Very many thanks for the photo of 73 (I think at Partington) which is very helpful.

I'm aware of the Agenoria kits for the smaller MSC locos and indeed I have one of the Hudswell Clarke kits in stock. I'm planning to build that as a long tank variant (62, the last 'namer') which will provide an interesting contrast to the larger Kitson.

 

This might be a good time to give a summary of the way the Kitson locos were used. The smaller Hunslet and Hudswell Clarke locos were ideal for short-distance duties on the dockside with sharp curves, but the MSC also had longer runs and heavier trains better suited to larger locos. The Kitsons were primarily assigned to the heavy traffic for Irlam Steelworks and the coaling basin at Partington (both based at Partington shed) and to serving the oil refineries over the steeply-graded branches around Stanlow. After WWII the MSC Railway acquired some more modern 'large' locos including 3 Austerities and 3 Hudswell Clarke saddle tanks which were similar but with outside cylinders.

 

In 1957, a new line was built to connect Irlam Steelworks to the CLC main line without needing the MSC connection, and this significantly reduced the MSC traffic in the Irlam/Partington area. Around the same time, the number of coal-fired steamships was reducing significantly so the need for heavy coal traffic around Partington also reduced. Some of the Kitsons were therefore transferred to Ellesmere Port / Stanlow where heavy traffic still needed to be worked over the steep gradients there.

 

In 1963, a batch of 5 Sentinel 0-6-0 diesels were delivered to Ellesmere Port, making the steam locos redundant. They were returned to Manchester and two of the Kitsons, 72 and 80, continued to work for another year or so until withdrawal in December 1964. The remainder were scrapped earlier in 1963/64.

My layout is based at the Manchester/Partington end in the mid 1960s so I can justify a rather worn-out loco 80 in my fleet. Fortunately I have found some photos of 80 in this period which are very useful for confirming the details of that loco.

 

Best Regards,

Mol

[Sweet pea]

Mol this sounds like it's going to be an interesting kit build.

[Mol_PMB]

Merry Christmas!

 

First impressions of the kit is that it well presented and good quality. There are several etches in different thicknesses of nickel silver all individually wrapped, and many other machined, cast and 3D-printed components in little bags and boxes. The instruction booklet seems detailed and fairly well illustrated, and the stages and parts are all numbered. The assembly process looks like it has been well thought out, allowing the model to be built in several sections. Half-etched overlays are used for the rivet detail which should ensure consistent lines of fine rivets. The kit incorporates things like hornblocks, plunger pickups and gearbox torque reaction link, rather than leaving it to the builder to work out how to incorporate these things.

 

Because I'm building a different prototype there are some things I'll need to change, and probably some areas where I'll add more detail. For example there doesn't seem to be much cab interior detail provided in the kit, and despite the copious rivets on the tank sides they seem rather absent elsewhere.

 

I scanned in the outline drawings of the Kitson locos from Don Thorpe's book on the MSC Railways, scaled them up to 7mm scale and and checked known dimensions. I also scanned in the kit etches and compared their dimensions. Everything agreed with my expectations, and confirmed that I would need to extend the frames and footplating by a scale foot (7mm) at the rear end to support the additional bunker on MSC 80. This photo taken at the MSC Mode Wheel workshops in 1963 helpfully shows the difference between one of the 72-74 batch on the left, and one of the 80-82 batch on the right with the extra bunker:   

My intention is to design a custom etch to produce the extra parts needed for the cab back and bunker, plus a few other bits and pieces. I'll make a start on building the kit first, and develop the etch artwork in parallel.

 

[Mol_PMB]

The kit instructions start with the chassis, so that's where I've started. Here's the chassis etch, it also contains some other parts:

One thing I was pleased to find is that the kit provides options for the type of coupling rod, my prototype has the simpler sort. But that's jumping ahead a bit.

 

I cut the main chassis parts from the fret and spent about an hour with emery boards and needle files to remove the cusps and tabs from the edges.

There was just enough scrap material on the etch fret to make two 7mm frame extension pieces and some narrower strips to reinforce the joint where they will be attached. I cut these to size with a piercing saw.

 

That's got me this far, nothing fixed in place yet:

 

More progress will be reported as it is made...

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hello Mol,

Merry Christmas to you sir! As soon as I saw MSC, I was interested, will follow along.

Cheers,

 John 

[Mol_PMB]

A slight aside, this photo hangs in one of my local pubs, the 'Railway Tavern' in Flixton, along with several other old photos featuring the ship canal railways.

One thing that's very clear in this photo is that there are rivets on the tank tops as well as the sides; the kit only represents the rivets on the sides. For a model that is often viewed from above, I think I'll have to add some rivets to the tank tops too. Another item for the custom etch!

I think I might have to go on another 'research' trip to the pub in the next few days. Cheers!

 

[Sandhole]

Really looking forward to following this build.
I've always had a soft spot for these engines. I never saw them unfortunately.
Merry Christmas and a happy new year, I've enjoyed reading your posts this past year.
Regards,
Chris.

[Ruston]

This looks to be an interesting one. I don't suppose that this kit is also available in 4mm?

[Mol_PMB]

10 hours ago, Ruston said:

This looks to be an interesting one. I don't suppose that this kit is also available in 4mm?

I'm not aware of this etched kit being available in 4mm. However, I think there is a 3D printed model in 4mm, @Corbs has made one:

More details in this thread, page 40:

N

[Mol_PMB]

A couple of hours work this morning has got me this far:

 

A few little challenges/confusions along the way.

(1) The frame spaces have numbers half-etched into them, but they don't all match the numbers in the instructions. The back pages of the instructions have illustrations of the etches with the parts numbered differently. Moral of the story is double - check you've got the right bit for each position!

(2) The main frames have etched holes for Slaters plunger pickups and these are available as an optional extra with the kit (which I bought). But one of the middle frame spacers fouls the holes for the plunger pickups on the middle wheelset. I cut away part of it, and reinforced the remainder with some scrap bits of etch. I hope this doesn't cause any problems later!

(3) It was a bit challenging to get the frames assembled truly square and parallel in all planes, but I got there in the end after lots of fine adjustments.

So far, so good. No major disasters!

 

The next step is the wheels, which are Slaters and again were supplied as an optional extra with the kit. I've prepared the balance weight etches and I plan to chemically blacken them before attaching them to the wheels. But first, time for brunch while the progress so far has an ultrasonic bath!

Mol

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I've now made up the wheelsets and the coupling rods.

 

Wheelsets went together as per the Slaters instructions, except that I recessed the backs of the holes for the crankpins so that the bolt heads did not protrude. Without this modification I found that they would strike the corners of the hornblocks, even with some washers fitted on the axles to limit sideplay.

The wheels were rusty before I even opened the packets!

The balance weights for the non-driven axles were spot-on for my prototype but the bigger ones for the driven axle weren't quite the right shape. I've modified them to be closer to the MSC version; not quite perfect but good enough for something that spends half its time either hidden by a rod or a splasher.

 

A quick push up and down the layout and all seems good.

 

The coupling rods went together easily as per the instructions, and are currently having a bath. I haven't yet trial-fitted them and that will probably have to wait until tomorrow as I have some boxing day duties to do this afternoon.

Mol

 

 

 

[Rhymney70]

Hi to anyone following this thread, I'm the proprietor of 88D Models.

 

I did this kit as a favour for a good customer who had waited 3 years! At the time of designing the kit I was only aware of the Cardiff Railway ones and it was designed using 3 works drawings and the photos I could find at the time.

 

After releasing the kit I became aware that Kitsons had made similar engines for the MSC etc. I couldn't find any information on some aspects such as tank top plate detail and cab furnishings.

Had I been aware of these, for the extra few bob, I would have included some optional bits, as in the case of providing 2 coupling rod styles.

 

I confess that after spending a day or two writing the instructions and trying to double check that one hasn't asked the modeller to fit something which will later prevent the fixing of another part, my brain has normally turned to mush!

I do suggest at the beginning to read, if not all, at least several stages ahead, so to get the feel of where things will go.

From the pictures above I can see that MOL is going to make a superb job of these mods and I will enjoy seeing the finished article.

[Mol_PMB]

Hi Rhymney70; many thanks for your post.

@Rhymney70 has also been really helpful to me on the email at a couple of stages in this build - just the sort of after-sales support one would hope for. Highly recommended!

 

None of my comments are meant as a criticism of the kit, which is streets ahead of many others I have built. I'm hoping others will be inspired by the build and give it a go themselves, so it's useful to highlight areas where I got confused to try and help others in future.

 

Anyway, half of the challenges are of my own making because I've chosen a slightly different prototype, so back to the build...

 

I trial-assembled the coupling rods and fitted them to the wheels, and the wheels go round smoothly, so that's a bonus. I can't fit motor and gears just yet because I don't have them in stock and the supplier is closed for Christmas, so I have moved on to the superstructure as per the instructions.

 

Here's the etch with the footplate on, as well as a few hundred lovely rivets on the side tank overlays! One of the nice features of this kit is the use of several different etch thicknesses to suit different applications.

 

Now, having made the frames longer to suit my prototype, I also needed to extend the footplate. The frames were 7mm longer but the footplate is 9mm longer as the bunker overhangs the rear bufferbeam.

Once again I was able to find enough scrap on the etch to make the extension, though it has some writing on the underside!

 

Of course I also had to extend the footplate valances, and my prototype has a slightly different shape to those provided in the kit. So first I modified the shape of the existing valances at the front:

Then I made some extra short rear valances from scrap parts of the chassis etch:

These closeups are a bit cruel, I smoothed the edges a bit more after assembly.

I then cut the valances to length so that the join would occur in the middle of the cab steps. This means that the joins in the footplate and the valances aren't directly in line, so it's stronger, and it's also easier to rub down the join in this location.

Here are the valance pieces and the footplate extension piece fitted to the footplate:

 

The next job was to fit the bufferbeams. These are supplied in two layers - a structural piece and a half-etched overlay with rivet detail. But, my MSC prototype had flush countersunk rivets on the front face of the bufferbeam. On the back face there were round-head rivets though.

So, what did I do? I laminated up the bufferbeams and then fitted them back to front! (Sorry Mike for misusing your kit in this way)

 

That left me with 3 rivets visible outboard of the footplate valance at each corner, just like the prototype:

Here's the extended rear end, I think it still needs a bit of fettling but I'm getting there:

 

I'll stop for now, next step will be the structure of the side tanks, which looks to be very well designed to capture the complex shape of the prototype.

 

[Mol_PMB]

I'm enjoying this kit, so have been back in the workshop to build the structure of the first tank.

The tank sturctures are on another etch, here:

 

The design is quite ingenious and mostly folds up from one piece; there are three other small spacers as well:

The 12BA nuts soldered in place will enable me to attach the tank to the footplate, but yet separate them for painting. This is a provision in the kit.

 

The spacers either fold up or are soldered to one side:

Almost everything fitted well, I found that the middle spacer C seemed to fold up to be about 0.5mm too high, and I had to file down the tops of the tabs and the tops of the spacer to get it to sit neatly.

Very important to modify the tabs on both sides otherwise it tries to make the tank parallelogram-shaped (yes, I fell down that trap too...)

 

Anyway, with a bit of care and a burnt thumb (careless!) I have got it all nice and straight and square:

This is the outside face which will later have a half-etched overlay on it. There's another piece to form the top of the tank, and another for the front.

 

Now, I would make a start on the other one but two of my friends have suggested a trip to the pub (not the one with the Kitson photo in).

 

[Sweet pea]

Hi Mol this seems to be a great looking kit, the etched parts look great. 

Your progress on this kit build is looking lovely.

[Rhymney70]

Don't worry MOL, as long as you enjoy building the kit, I'm not fussed what you do to it.

I didn't think when we first spoke about you ordering the kit, I have tons (literally) of strips of etch.

Before packing I trim off between 10 & 20 mm all around of waste, so I could have included a few spare strips for you, dah!

[Mol_PMB]

The second tank went together well after learning the lessons on the first one - exactly as mentioned in the instructions!

Here are the two tanks, the footplate and the chassis posed together:

 

The next part to build is the smokebox, and here I need to add some rivet/bolt detail. The early MSC Kitsons had smooth smokebox wrappers like the kit, but they were modified and they ended their days with a distinct row of 5 rivet/bolt heads on each side of the wrapper, as seen here:

This photo suggests that they fixed a tray across the smokebox, which may well be a spark arrestor table plate:

 

There are also some bolt heads to add on the front plate that connects the smokebox and the tank fronts, again it looks like these were a later MSC addition.

Hopefully I can replicate these by drilling some holes and soldering in bits of wire.

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I wasn't confident that I'd be able to make a good job of the smokebox, but actually it has turned out OK. Here are the stages of adding the 'bolts' and shaping it.

Holes marked out and drilled while still flat:

Rolling by hand - this wasn't as bad as I had expected and my fears of it kinking along the lines of holes were unfounded:

A smaller bar to get the required diameter:

Inserting wire from inside; these were then soldered in place on the inside:

The resulting unkempt hedgehog:

The protruding wires were straightened with pliers and then trimmed to a consistent length:

Then the wrapper was soldered in place and the joints cleaned up. I used an emery board to smooth off the ends of the wires too:

Next job is the front plate, which will use a similar approach for the bolt heads but will hopefully be easier as it's flat:

[Ruston]

That looks a proper job. The drilling and adding bits of wire - is that how the instructions say to do it, or is that your own extra touch instead of dimpling them out as rivets?

[Mol_PMB]

37 minutes ago, Ruston said:

That looks a proper job. The drilling and adding bits of wire - is that how the instructions say to do it, or is that your own extra touch instead of dimpling them out as rivets?

Thanks!

The kit doesn't include provision for those rivets on the smokebox; they seem to have been a later mod to the MSC locos and probably were never fitted to the Cardiff Railway loco that the kit represents.

I considered doing a new etch for the smokebox wrapper with half-etched dimples for rivets, that would have been my backup plan. For dimpling rivets in full-thickness nickel silver I wasn't confident of getting them even or in line, and wasn't sure what would happen when I then formed the curve.

 

Anyway, I have used the same approach for the bolt heads on the front plate of the loco that makes the distinctive Kitson 'face'; again these aren't in the kit but seem to have been a later MSC modification:

The MSC also added some extra steps on one side at the front of the loco, and fitted an additional handrail to the tank at that side. I've added some fine milled brass angle to the bottom of the front plate and then fashioned the handrail from a couple of scrap bits of etch and a length of copper-plated steel wire. Here's the prototype for comparison:

 

I did a trial assembly of the main parts made so far, it is just starting to look like a Kitson:

That's all for today. I'll pick it up again tomorrow.

 

 

 

[Sweet pea]

Mol this loco build of your just gets better. I like the way you have added the rivets to the smokebox. 

[Mol_PMB]

Today I started by soldering up the front plate and the smokebox, and by bolting that and the tanks to the footplate to check the combined fit.

I then removed those, curved up the footplate splasher tops and soldered them in place, and then re-fitted the tanks with a bit of fettling needed at the interface to the splashers.

 

I've now reached the section of instructions about the cab where I'll need to make some bigger changes, because my prototype has a rear bunker and a different cab back.

 

Looking closely at these photos, the front of the bunker is a vertical plate inside the cab, slightly forward of the upper cab backplate. There's a convenient little shelf on top of the bunker inside the cab, ideal for putting down a brew or a tin of brasso.

The bunker front plate seems to be in the same position as the cab backplate on the non-bunkered version. So I decided to use the cab back-plate provided in the kit to represent the bunker front, and to cut it down level with the bunker top.

The cab backplate also has a fold-up section which provides a way of bolting it to the footplate, and some edges which fold up to support the cab floor. It looked like this in the flat:

Referring back to the prototype photos, the cab floor supports aren't solid, they have a recess cut into them to ptovide a better footstep. So I drilled some holes and used the piercing saw to create this shape:

And the result (with the upper half also cut off) looks like this:

 

I then prepared the cab front and a side sheet, and trial-fitted them, as seen here; just propped in place:

 

Now that I have some fixed points to work from in the cab area, I can make some more progress on my custom etched parts to represent the bunker and cab back of my prototype. Hopefully more on that tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

Mol

 

 

 

[Ruston]

This may be of interest from 7mins 55. Not MSC but a similar Kitson.