Hornby 2022 - Licences & Collectables

[AY Mod]

[JohnR]

I actually think the Coca-Cola livery works quite well on the 121 - reminds me a bit of the BT bubble car in the 80s. 

 

At first I thought who thought using the 73 was a good idea for the Beatles set, then I remember MerseyRail had some for departmental work! So there is a (tenuous) link.

[Michael Hodgson]

You expect us to pay good money for all this advertising ?  Really ? 

 

I might consider it if the price was discounted to peanuts, but if any of that lot were ever to came into my possession it still wouldn't enter service without a respray .

 

This sort of stuff sells though, so it's obviously true that there's one born every minute, and if Hornby can make money out of these people, good luck to them.

[HonestTom]

I'd be interested to see who this sells to. I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm just honestly curious to see whether the market is model railway enthusiasts, Beatles fans/people who really like Coca-Cola, general collectors or just people who want something fun on their layout?

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You expect us to pay good money for all this advertising ?  Really ? 

 

I might consider it if the price was discounted to peanuts, but if any of that lot were ever to came into my possession it still wouldn't enter service without a respray .

 

This sort of stuff sells though, so it's obviously true that there's one born every minute, and if Hornby can make money out of these people, good luck to them.

 

But it does sell and advertising wagons have been part of the Hornby range since the start.

 

 

I don't know why people think it's a new thing. Just that kids now are more likely to buy a Coca Cola wagon than an Ovaltine or Horlicks one. Or Seccotine, Colman's Mustard and Crawford's Biscuits like great, great grandad had.

 

In the 1970s you had the KitKat, Weetabix and Smith's Crisps vans. Remember the Polo Mint and Duracell Tankers?

 

 

Jason

[Budgie]

18 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Or Seccotine,.

I remember the stench of Seccotine.

[On30runner]

you forgot the Titfiel....

 

oh hold on a minute

 

never mind

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

In the 1970s you had the KitKat, Weetabix and Smith's Crisps vans. Remember the Polo Mint and Duracell Tankers?

 

 

I remember the stink of from the Weetabix factory at Welwyn Garden City.

Also remember being kicked off the train onto a bus outside that derelict factory one evening when the overhead wires had come down

[RichardT]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't know why people think it's a new thing. Just that kids now are more likely to buy a Coca Cola wagon than an Ovaltine or Horlicks one. Or Seccotine, Colman's Mustard and Crawford's Biscuits like great, great grandad had.

 

In the 1970s you had the KitKat, Weetabix and Smith's Crisps vans. Remember the Polo Mint and Duracell Tankers?

I suppose the big difference is that back in the day the makers of Seccotine, or even Smith’s Crisps didn’t see such wagons as contraventions of monetisable IP, but just smiled and regarded them as bonus free advertising.

 

Richard

[Great Eastern Lady]

If you don’t like them don’t buy them. They will appeal some people and if that rocks their boat then good on them

[Soul Survivor]

5 hours ago, Great Eastern Lady said:

If you don’t like them don’t buy them. They will appeal some people and if that rocks their boat then good on them

Totally agree - but they’ll never rock my yellow submarine!

[John M Upton]

Thick end of a hundred sheets for a Coca Cola liveried Limby Bubble Car?  Extracting the proverbial urine big time there....

[30801]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Thick end of a hundred sheets for a Coca Cola liveried Limby Bubble Car?  Extracting the proverbial urine big time there....

 

Maybe they'll do a cheaper Panda Cola liveried one?

[John M Upton]

Blimey, Panda Cola.  That takes me back.  Do they still make that?

[friscopete]

An American small time die cast manufacturer ,forget the name for now,  used to produce various liveries on White rigs  about 1/64 scale  I think in the 60's and later  .Coca Cola was good seller.One day CC asked for a small fortune to  licence it .He didnt I dont think ,but others did in a big way so  it must sell well.Despite all the sarcasm  it is well established and lucrative and probably helps to pay for those scale models everyone demands and rarely gets ..

 ER I am thinking of plonking a Jack Daniels and /or a JPS team  Lotus sticker over a very  large scratch  deep in my  mutilated hack guitar.  

[Grovenor]

On 10/01/2022 at 17:02, RichardT said:

I suppose the big difference is that back in the day the makers of Seccotine, or even Smith’s Crisps didn’t see such wagons as contraventions of monetisable IP, but just smiled and regarded them as bonus free advertising.

 

Richard

Or even paid Hornby to produce them? I always liked the Trinidad Lake Asphalt tipper wagons.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Tri-ang (Lines Bros. Group) had a deal with Shell.

 

Shell supplied lubrication oil in small bottles which has labels for FROG (flying model aircraft), Scalextric, Tri-ang Railways, and probably Minic Motorways (oil bottles were supplied with the cars, but I don’t recall seeing a Minic Motorways label?)

 

Photo from this post….

 

Shell branding was the only fuel tank brand used by Tri- ang Railways. (Yes, BP was also used, on the other side. This was because Shell and BP had an agreement for sharing rail tankers…)

 

Shell/BP Petrol Tank (Silver).

 

Shell Fuel Oil Tank (Black).

 

Shell Lubricating Oil Tank (Yellow)

 

Also, other Lines Bros Road Tanker models and toys bore Shell branding. Spot-On, Minic, Minic Motorways…

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo…added photo and link…

[Colin_McLeod]

Will reviews of the Coca-Cola wagon include a bottle opening video and a critique of the taste? 

 

[MrTea]

I’d be prepared to bet that the Coca-Cola licensed items don’t have the logo squashed or feature the ‘wrong’ colours. 
 

They’re not to my taste but I actually think, in principle, they’re quite a clever idea from a marketing point of view. 
 

If Coke get some money by licensing their brand, they win. If Hornby sell some extra models (especially to non-railway modellers) then they win too. 

[BR60103]

Back around 1950, Lionel managed to get certain companies to sponsor cars for them.

When they introduced the F unit, I think they got General Motors (EMD), Santa Fe and New York Central to each kick in half the cost.

 

I think Chessie System (with the cat) and Union Pacific were the ones who started to demand licences and royalties and spurious copyright symbols.

 

[Ozexpatriate]

1 hour ago, BR60103 said:

Union Pacific were the ones who started to demand licences and royalties

Uncle Pete certainly was.

[Farang]

On 14/01/2022 at 04:39, Ozexpatriate said:

Uncle Pete certainly was.

There is now just a handful of railroads in the USA where once there were many Class 1 Railroads. Over the years these have been absorbed by the large corporations: UP/NS/CSX/BNSF/CN. They own the logos of those "fallen flags" as they are called and are their copyright. Years ago this may not have been a problem, indeed the railroads may have actively assisted manufacturers by providing details of painting and lettering. Then some "suit" at UP, inevitably a lawyer (and remember that the USA reputedly has 25% of all the lawyers in the world) decided to demand royalties on models. One manufacturer refused and the affair generated a huge amount of adverse publicity for UP with stories in the media along the lines of "huge railroad wants to tax children's toys". It got so bad that the UP had to put a stop to it which was what the Chairman did at the annual meeting. By contrast the BNSF was asking just one dollar a year for the use of its trademarks which is probably still the case with the railroads today.

 

Which brings me to the National Railway Museum. It seems they too like to tax children's toys by demanding payment for models of equipment they own i.e. Flying Scotsman and Mallard.

This copyright is held by SCMG Enterprises Ltd. In connection with these models the  Hornby catalogue states that "every purchase supports the museum". How does this work? Does Hornby pay a one-off fee when they produce a model or do they have to make a payment for every model they sell?  Do we now have the NRM taxing children's toys? The NRM is part of the Science Museum Group, a government department therefore owned by the public and funded by us, the taxpayers.  They also have a company - Locomotion - to produce models of their collection.

 

So, Mr Kohler, would you like to enlighten us on this subject and perhaps tell us how much this adds to the cost of your models?

 

I am a newcomer to this group so my apologies if this topic has been covered before.

[AY Mod]

It's not a 'tax', governments do that. It's a licence fee to reproduce owned assets which may either be a fixed sum or a percentage of sales. A business is unlikely to disclose the amount as there may be different agreements in place. Any monies raised by such museums go into their pot with admissions and grants and do support the running costs. 

[1andrew1]

1 hour ago, Farang said:

So, Mr Kohler, would you like to enlighten us on this subject and perhaps tell us how much this adds to the cost of your models?

You can take a look at the models' in Coca-Cola and Beatles liveries and compare them to other liveries and work out the price difference from there. I appreciate that's Hornby's pricing and not the actual licencing costs.

 

I doubt if the agreements Hornby has in place allow the details to be disclosed. You could try a freedom of information request to the Museum but I suspect it would be declined on commercial grounds.
 

The only issue I have with some of the fake/licensed/promotional liveries is that as a kid, I thought when I bought a BirdsEye Van or a BP tanker, I was buying an authentic model. I learned later in life that I hadn't.

 

I like the fun nature of these models and if they bring more people into the hobby - great. Perhaps they need to be labelled "Inspired and licensed from Coca-Cola"? 

Edited January 16, 2022 by 1andrew1

[Bucoops]

I guess they picked the 121 as most of them have been turned into coke cans now?