Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Johan DC]

7 hours ago, ELTEL said:

What is kinematic close-coupling ?

 

The kind of coupling you'll find in Hornby's (and other's) latest coaches (since Pullman?) where the NEM-pockets are held back in a V-shaped slot by a spring, and in the curves are able to expand in the leggs of the V to give a little more distance between the coaches so there is no buffer lock. Most RTR tender engines have a fixed connection, sometimes adjustalble. 

 

Johan

 

 

[Bloodnok]

2 hours ago, Johan DC said:

 

The kind of coupling you'll find in Hornby's (and other's) latest coaches (since Pullman?)

 

... with the notable exception of Every. Single. One. of their post-nationalisation designs ... up until apparently this latest Mk3 redesign, which appears to have body-mounted couplers, so might have them fitted.

[Johan DC]

25 minutes ago, Bloodnok said:

 

... with the notable exception of Every. Single. One. of their post-nationalisation designs ... up until apparently this latest Mk3 redesign, which appears to have body-mounted couplers, so might have them fitted.

Thank you, I stand corrected, I was not aware of this omission in their modern designs. A shame really. 

 

Johan

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, steve45 said:

Agreed, I think Hornby have done this to block Accurascale from doing it and it I doubt if Hornby will do it as well.

The big problem with Black 5s is the huge variety of detail within the class and that means some very careful research if you are going to get each individual model correct in every detail to represent the running number it carries in any particular livery.  That sort of research care lies with Accurascale and some other manufacturers and I do wonder if Hornby of today are up to it with what already appears to be one error among the announced models?

 

I really hope they can manage it because I will be in the market for at least one Black 5 (when they do a suitable one) provided that it doesn't come with a mish mash of detail errors which aren't easy to correct.  They managed to get the almost as difficult 'Castles' mostly correct but can they still do that when they are wasting their time and effort on things like engaging in playground type behaviour with the likes of Rapido?

[Blandford1969]

On 10/01/2022 at 10:32, Karl said:

 

The images that Hornby have used don't show a Caprotti valve geared Black 5 and there were two different designs of this too, a high running plate one and a low running plate one. I don't know any details on them but these are links to photos of the two I am aware of I can't get the links to work but if you copy and paste the below into your browser it should take you to the photo).

 

www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/25145938620 

 

www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/41297020051

 

 

Which Hornby are doing I don't know.

 

The later ones had a different coupled wheelbase and differences on the positioning of the top feed. In the past you would say the small number of prototypes would mean Hornby would not do it. However now with one offs selling well, who knows.

[Downer]

Interesting how little interest this thread is attracting.

[wairoa]

I am interested in this. I am looking to get a Black 5 and Princess sometime in the future.

[Black 5 Bear]

32 minutes ago, Downer said:

Interesting how little interest this thread is attracting.

Maybe people are Pre-ordering these locos rather than commenting on a yet unknown quantity.

When you consider the pricing at RRP £249.99 for the steam/sound version, which comes complete with a glowing firebox, operational lamps, this appears to be a very good deal.

This model will without doubt be a very popular choice as this class of loco could be seen all over the network.

Well done Hornby !

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

On 10/01/2022 at 15:47, jools1959 said:

I’ve quite happy with the announcement and I think, something for everyone, so I’ve happily pre-ordered R30226 BR 45157 “Glasgow Highlander”.  I think R3030225SS having a smoke generator is just a gimmick, and had i ordered it, I would have removed it.

 

A smoke generator is indeed a gimmick, but so is sound & loike it or not, there are a lot of modellers using DCC sound. A motor is a gimmick too I guess.

Model railways themselves are nothing more than expensive toys if we're really honest.

 

But why would you remove the smoke generator? Just don't bother filling it up.

 

I've seen Hornby's video of a prototype smoke-fitted Flying Scotsman. The way it puffs in time with the exhaust beat is a vast improvement from the constant dribble of oily smoke from their earlier unit of around 40 years ago.

 

I'm just looking at my desktop pic of 6201 pulling a train away from Carlisle. Its heading into a cloud of its own steam with small clouds around the cylinders & drain cocks with a little smoke from the chimney. It would seem a little life-less without them. I know models are not quite at this level of realism yet, but you don't jump there by not bothering; you push the bar up incrementally.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 11/01/2022 at 10:56, The Stationmaster said:

The big problem with Black 5s is the huge variety of detail within the class and that means some very careful research if you are going to get each individual model correct in every detail to represent the running number it carries in any particular livery.

 

What's this? A Western man who doesn't think all Black Fives look the same? 

 

[Downer]

Has anyone - from Hornby or otherwise - actually confirmed that they're doing one of the 20 Caprotti engines with a low footplate?  I know 44755 is one of those, but it wouldn't be the first time a model manufacturer made a mistake with the number. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

I think that if they can manage it the Stephenson 44767 would be a popular model. It was the last engine delivered under LMS rule. I've not yet found a picture butI understand it carried plain black with the number 4767 and LMS in sans serif style on the tender. Until 1952 it had a double chimney. It carried its original livery minus double chimney and with the nameplate added in preservation at the S&D 150 Cavalcade. 

 

On 24th April 1948 D J Norton photographed it at Birmingham New Street in a dirty state but with the cab side clean and the number 44767 freshly painted and the tender still showing LMS. It later received lined black livery which was carried until withdrawl exactly 20 years after completion.

 

Personally I fancy a Caprotti 5, and 44755 could be a good Rule 1 engine as it was photographed at Bath Green Park when a Holbeck loco and in the West Midlands when at Edgeley. On that basis it probably visited most ex-LMS lines in England. It was also noted elsewhere at Scrborough. It carried a double chimney throughout its life

[Downer]

I've just noticed that the picture attached to 44755 in Andy's list of new tooling - which I assume he got from Hornby - is just a photoshopped version of the 45157 pic, with number changed and nameplate erased. This seems extraordinarily amateurish, and suggests something done in great haste, perhaps to ward off a competitor. 

[Blandford1969]

2 hours ago, Downer said:

Has anyone - from Hornby or otherwise - actually confirmed that they're doing one of the 20 Caprotti engines with a low footplate?  I know 44755 is one of those, but it wouldn't be the first time a model manufacturer made a mistake with the number. 

No they have not and it is not on their list. I think it is purely speculation

[Steamport Southport]

58 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

No they have not and it is not on their list. I think it is purely speculation

 

Yes they have.

 

It's an website exclusive.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-stanier-5mt-black-5-caprotti-4-6-0-44755-era-4-web-exclusive-r30227

 

 

Just that some numpty has used photoshopped images of preserved locomotives rather than looking for proper photographs.

 

Seems to me the whole announcement was rushed.....

 

 

Jason

Edited January 13, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[Downer]

3 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes they have.

 

It's an website exclusive.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-stanier-5mt-black-5-caprotti-4-6-0-44755-era-4-web-exclusive-r30227

 

 

Just that some numpty has used photoshopped images of preserved models rather than looking for proper photographs.

 

 

Jason

That link just suggests the model has caprotti valve gear, not that it’s a low footplate version.

[Steamport Southport]

30 minutes ago, Downer said:

That link just suggests the model has caprotti valve gear, not that it’s a low footplate version.

 

It's 44755.

 

If they were doing a high running plate version it would have a high running plate number. They don't tend to do things like that anymore. Certainly not on £230 models.

 

 

Jason

[Downer]

4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

It's 44755.

 

If they were doing a high running plate version it would have a high running plate number. They don't tend to do things like that anymore. Certainly not on £230 models.

 

 

Jason

You’re missing the point. The only evidence we have is the number, so what if they’ve got that wrong. I’m not preordering a £230 model without some visual indication of what they’re actually doing.

[pH]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes they have.

 

It's an website exclusive.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-stanier-5mt-black-5-caprotti-4-6-0-44755-era-4-web-exclusive-r30227

 

Reading that page, it almost sounds as if it’s describing a Caprotti Standard 5!

[64F]

I'm always very sceptical about the details provided in these release announcements as Hornby have a track record of vague announcements (i.e. giving the purported and not always accurate 'era' rather than describing the crest), and changing the crest or the loco number prior to release.  I seem to recall the K1s were all renumbered in that way, as the initial announcement included a Scottish Region one which was eventually produced as an NER example instead.    For the new Black Five they have muddied the waters even further by using the same picture for all three BR models and pointlessly photoshopping the numbers onto it (even though the image is of a completely different type to at least one of the locomotives modelled and if the differing 'eras' listed are to be believed the crest is presumably wrong for at least one of them as well).  It wouldn't surprise me if one or both of the Walschaerts ones comes out as late crest and the Caprotti gets "British Railways" lettering.  Given the importance of pre-ordering I really think that Hornby should make more of an effort to explain exactly what they are inviting us to buy.   That description of a Caprotti Standard 5 on their website is the icing on the cake!  (That said - yes please!)

 

I've held off ordering the Caprotti until I at least know what livery it is to be in.

Edited January 13, 2022 by 64F

[farren]

What’s the big deal, you pre-order and cancel if it turns out it’s not what you want. Or you don’t order run the risk of missing out. Where’s the problem? More information will come along shortly and probably either this months or next month signal box. 

[64F]

5 minutes ago, farren said:

What’s the big deal, you pre-order and cancel if it turns out it’s not what you want. Or you don’t order run the risk of missing out. Where’s the problem? More information will come along shortly and probably either this months or next month signal box. 

I don't like placing pre-orders I'm not 100% sure about in case the retailer gets stuck with stuff I've cancelled that they can't shift.  However that wouldn't be a problem for the Caprotti I suppose, as it be Hornby's own problem.  Perhaps this week has just got even more expensive.

Edited January 13, 2022 by 64F
typo

[farren]

Well they won’t as it’s Hornby website only so your retailer isn’t getting any anyway

Edited January 13, 2022 by farren

[resin001]

I emailed Hornby on Monday following the announcement of the Caprotti - to ask them to clarify that it will indeed be a Caprotti ! I await a response , which I will share once received 

[resin001]

Attached photo of my attempt to build the Comet / Wizard " Caprotti 5 " - I started the build at the begining of 2021 - it may look rough at the moment but it actually has a smooth running chassis , although extensive modification was required to allow it to traverse 3rd radius curves , my target is to complete this before the Hornby version that I have on order arrives.