Jon's GER Loco Building Adventures

[GER_Jon]

As advertised in the Bath Queensquare topic I'm starting a record of my progress in creating GER locomotives and this is my first RMWEB topic to boot.  I'm looking at two periods the 1880's and the 10 years pre WW1 so I have a variety of loco types to construct and in the earlier period the choice to go pre blue livery! Key background info is found the GER Journal, The locomotive magazine (available from GER soc), Loco Drawings (GER soc) NRM drawings (although the old NRM website closing means its impossible to find the stuff I used anymore) and for GER nerds the book Great Eastern Locomotives Past and Present 1862 to 1945 by C.Langley Aldrich is indispensible (my copy is the Victory edition).

The loco list includes the following:

Tank engines - S56, K9, E10, M15 and G15.  Tender engines - No1 class (Little Sharpie), 417 class, Thetford and Watton 0-4-2 and Y14.

I started the earliest locos when I was learning to solder which means the bodies neeed some reworking.

We're starting with the S56 better known as J69/1 and hopefully it will turn out as no 59 in condition as built 1904.  A preserved example is owned by the NRM and was at Bressingham when I visited pre covid in beutiful GER passenger livery.  In the past when I got to a point where I felt my skills were not good enough I started on the next kit doing the easy bits rather than solving the problems but the idea behind going public is to make me stick at it and finish!!!

The photo shows the chassis and body as recovered from storage on my new mark 1 test track board with the converted Jinty I use as my control (for track testing and running comparator) its the later drop in wheel version. The S56 kit is a David Eveleigh etching and has alternative parts for LNER upgrades. The motor is an association flat can.

More to follow

Jon

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Corrected poor use of english language, redone pic

[GER_Jon]

This post is my place to create an index as this might be a longish topic!!

[GER_Jon]

In converting the Jinty I learned a lot about coupling rods and have a loco which runs well on my test track therefore any derailing or wobbling of new engines "must" be fixable.  The Jinty weighs 39g so I have this as my minimum target weight for finished tank engines although I suspect the total wheelbase of the actual loco may affect this rule and in this case the S56 is shorter than the Jinty.

The test track in the first post is a straight transitioning to 550mm (22inch) curve . The chassis (11g) loaded with two 3mm roller gauges of 15g each runs acceptably, previous tests were done at a total weight of 24g on a straight track.  The weight is not ideally distributed and may give some instability.  I suspect the rods are not brilliant but they are being removed to allow wheels to be painted blue and can be fettled plus I have a spare set from the etch which I can also try.

I seem unable to link to youtube today but will add a film when I can. The earlier test is on page 54 of Jerrys Bath Queen Square topic

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by GER_Jon
adding film link

[GER_Jon]

I spent a couple of hours last night cutting and filing KS tubing to shape a boiler.  I thought it a good time to check the weight of the body with the main fittings to check with the 39g target weight.  What I weighed is shown in the pic including some N Brass fittings of aprox size for the bigger add-ons. It came to 8g so I need a minimum of 20g of lead in the tanks bunker and front of boiler. 

While doing this I noticed I had failed to solder cab beading / number plates on while the sides were flat so I need to take off the cab back to get a support in while adding these bits.

 

For refernce I found an old topic from 2013 by JohnBS called How Heavy is your 2mm loco which contains useful info for novices like me on the range of weights for different loco types - thanks go to all who corresponded there.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated picture

[GER_Jon]

Had a bout of Lurgi over the weekend so not much done but got out my box of lead (bits from re roofing) and made packing for the tanks, bunker and boiler.  Hammered out a length and rolled it to a tight fit in  the boiler - worked surprisingly well.  I decided I need to make a proper bunker front from scrap etch to contain the lead behind the cab.  Am going DC with this loco and trying to keep a clear cab if I can.  The bits in the photo now give 20g, and I expect I can get a bit more in the bunker than currently cut plus possibly a lead floor in the cab so closing in on the 39g mark (11g for chassis)!

 

Latest error spotted - I failed to open out the holes for the cab door handrails before taking the footplate off the etch so I'm now waiting for a new sharp drill to clear them.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated Picture

[GER_Jon]

Got the 0.3mm drill and opened the footplate holes without breaking it.  Also made up the spare set of coupling rods as mentioned above, when fitted saw a definite improvement in the chassis running. Got the beginners artist acrylics out and mixed a blue from black and primary blue to represent GER engine blue plus primary red and blue to do a vermillion. To my eye these looked good but no idea what the photos will show! So the wheels have been painted blue and the rods vermilion ready for the weekends assembly work. 

Cheers Jon

[GER_Jon]

Last weekend was a mixture of construction followed by destruction.  My guess is I didnt put the cab beading on originally because I thought it was beyond my soldering skills. Well it certainly isnt something I've mastered yet, two goes followed by desoldering took place and then I got something that was ok. Cleaned up the results and photographed - wow what looks ok can be killed by a photo!!!

 

In addition I have now refitted the cab back plate, put in a bunker to hold lead and drilled out the footplate front for lamp irons, clack pipies and westinghouse connection at 0.3mm using witness marks for locations.

 

The eagle eyed will have notice the numberplate shows 53 whereas I had started this topic identifying no 59 as the loco being built.  As is often the case I couldnt find the 59 plates anywhere but I had 53 and 89 in the parts box so I chose 53 as also being a 1904 build S56 order loco.  The plates soldered first time in correct location and then when looking for the sandboxes I saw 59 plates still on the etch! So 59 will have to be my second S56 build (one day!)

Regards

Jon

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated pictures

[GER_Jon]

Nice little package arrived from Nck Tilson at N Brass with lots of fiddly bits thtat look right for finishing off the model. In addition I have a number of smokebox doors to select from which will need some modification to suit the GER design.  Trains have been delayed by the wrong amount of Covid arriving in the grandchildrens Nursery School causing closure and implementation of plan B (our house) but back to normal from monday. Should be a lot more visual progress in the next week.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated picture

[GER_Jon]

First cuckoo of 2022

 

You know how it goes - I had a couple of hours modelling time available for the loco and jobs planned ---- however I noticed the Y14 (LNER J15) chassis and took look at it, in the process I  managed to break the spacers .  So needed to fix that before starting the real jobs.  I couldnt get it straight at all, these chassis are designed with a folding box you cut off after building and even with a chassis jig I couldnt get the right alignment due to the other bits of spacer. 

I was just giving up when I noticed the assembly jig for an association 14xx in the scrap box - unelievably the axle spacing is the same as the front pair on the Y14 and since the chassis is designed to standard assocation dimensions I could fit it in and resolder the spacer hoorah.  So remember nothing is trully junk!!

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated picture

[GER_Jon]

I decided to improve the boiler weight, earlier I showed the rolled lead approach which got 4g in (its only a small volume on a S56) giving approx 5g but probably only 4g near the front wheels.  Setting up the boiler as shown in a hole in some plywood with a bit of floorboard as a base I used a proxxon flame thrower to melt in small bits of lead (outside) these little devices can give 1200 deg apparently so pleanty for lead.  No damage was done in getting the final result shown (apologies for the photo quality).  The result is a total weight of 8g so nearly doubled the lead present.  Good result IMHO.

 

Now onto building etched sandboxes.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated pictures

[GER_Jon]

The Good the Bad and the Ugly

 

Finished working on the boiler and fitting it to the loco body with a lot of fettling it went in nicely I'd even thought of drilling a pilot hole for the whistle which was very close to the cab front and difficult to access with a small drill before soldering in the boiler. But... the tube diameter used is slightly too large - this was not obvious while loose fitting the parts and measuring up but was when trying to fit the smokebox wrapper.  So thats coming apart later in preperation for  new boiler -- BAD

 

Good news is that I've finally ordered my birthday present Proxxon MF70 mill so the next boiler will be a more accurate fit from the beginning! Compared to junior hacksaw and files although my filing isnt that bad due to my experiences studying Enginnering Workshop Theory and Practice "O" Level.  I used to be able to file square bar to round and vice versa. But that was in 1976 so one does get a bit rusty.

 

To de-stress I etch primed  a bunch of wheels for three different loco builds (Tender, 2-4-2 and 0-6-0) but even that turned out UGLY.  My eyesight didnt detect the poor finish quality.  Luckily I have no time until saturday to resume work so hopefully the functioning of my hands and eyes will recover by then.

All the best

Jon

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated picture

[bécasse]

It is possible to reduce the effective diameter of a slightly overlarge tube by cutting a slot of a suitable width along the bottom, squeezing the slot closed, soldering the joint up, and then squeezing again to more or less regain a circular shape. The width of the slot needs to be ∏ x the difference in the two diameters, so if the overlarge diameter is 10mm and the correct diameter is 9,7mm, the slot width would be ∏ x 0,3, say (22 x 0,3)/7 or just under 1mm.

[GER_Jon]

25 minutes ago, bécasse said:

It is possible to reduce the effective diameter of a slightly overlarge tube by cutting a slot of a suitable width along the bottom, squeezing the slot closed, soldering the joint up, and then squeezing again to more or less regain a circular shape. The width of the slot needs to be ∏ x the difference in the two diameters, so if the overlarge diameter is 10mm and the correct diameter is 9,7mm, the slot width would be ∏ x 0,3, say (22 x 0,3)/7 or just under 1mm.

Thats a good suggestion it looks like at least 0.5 too big probably as I have used 10.2mm tubing when it should be nearer 9.5. I have some 9.5 on order so will be able to confirm size with that. You can see the odd shape of the boiler in previous posts so if it can be salvaged that would be great. I should have measured the tube more carefully in the first place!

[GER_Jon]

Got the MF70 today so setup and tested it. Removed the boiler from the loco but it got damaged in the process so is not useable. The new tubing hasn't arrived yet, therefore finished off the original boiler but just as expected it's too small (leaves a too large gap underneath) so have to wait now for next steps.

[GER_Jon]

It's been a while but I'm still working on the getting the boiler correct. 9.5mm o.d. tube is still just oversize so I'm onto number 4 effort slitting underneath as suggested by Becasse above at just over 1mm. The MF70 mill has given me a good straight slit which I'll squeeze up once I do the awkward shaping. Fingers crossed might be a giant leap forward at the weekend.

[GER_Jon]

Real life got in the way of modelling at the weekend but I did get some progress on this boiler.   Cut a length of tube, then marked off with a shallow cut on the mill the length of the boiler front. A milled a slot in the front part followed by sawing the unwanted material from the back. The mill provides an excellent accurate slot - not sure if it would work using a saw to do this (in my hands). Next is a long session of filing intersersed with checking fit on the etch. Current status is this

 

 

My working method for doing the filing involves holding the piece down on a slot in a piece of scrap wood as there is very little scope to clamp the tube while still being able to access the areas requiring attack.  With the slot the tube is unstable so I used a piece of dowel inside to press against which worked ok.  Shown below is the "jig" and the boiler graveyard.  The reject boilers were useful guides to shaping the new piece.  Next up is closing the gap by soldering scrap etch inside while it is wired together. 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Reinstated pictures

[GER_Jon]

Finally after much bad language and fettling I have the boiler fitted.  Once filed near to shape the tube part was held in a vice while it was soldered together.  The final size was 9.2mm North/South and 9.0mm East/west.  Due to the joint I decided not to cast lead directly as I had with the previous efforts but used piece of 9mm ply as a mould (suggested by David Eveleigh). 9mm was the length of the lead plug required and the hole drilled out used a drill I had the shank of which fitted the boiler (near enough!). So fanfare required:

This weighs in at 10g bunker and tank lead not yet added.

Next I need to drill all the holes for handrails etc and specifically the anchor point for the chassis which needs the boiler drilling from underneath and tapping out for the screw size chosen either 10 or 12 BA when I find my taps. Normally a nut soldered on the footplate is use but the S56 has a boiler right onto the footplate. See below also visible is the joint.

Off for a pint.

Edited September 9, 2023 by GER_Jon
Restored photos

[GER_Jon]

Tapped the anchor point 10BA but probably need shorter screws - luckily going to Ally Pally so should have some soon. Need to drill a lot of holes for fittings but decided to work on chimney first.  N Brass have two stovepipes the short one is perfect for many GER locos but slightly small for S56, while the large is too fussy on top an slightly too big.  So I attacked a big one with files to try out - it needs the flares slimming but might do even though it looks far too tall (correct for my drawings!).  So I might go with a small to get the right look even if its 8 or 9" lower than it should be. Watch this space.

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
returned pic

[GER_Jon]

Time to apologise to Nick Tilson at N Brass the taller chimney is not sold as a stovepipe but for some reason I had it in with my stovepipe stash.  Probably I bought it due to it being suitable to modify to stovepipe shape!  The actual large stovepipe chimney N Loco 23209 is 6.3mm tall whereas the required height is closer to 7.3mm. Should be able to get the pipe bash to work I think.

Edited April 1, 2022 by GER_Jon
Spelling corrected

[GER_Jon]

Ally Pally trip off as travelling companion (and weekend host) tested positive for Covid last night, I was looking forward to seeing Freshwater in the flesh having followed it on here (already seen CF a few times). On the positive side this creates a theoretical modelling budget surplus so I've decided to commit to a second set of Eveleigh J69 etches to dispose of the spare cash. The intent is to fit with one of the new association 6 x15mm motors and a DCC chip to go modern and keep a clear cab. Compared to the old flat can motors these seem tiny so should also allow more lead in the side tanks. I should be able to whiz through* the build having learned all the lessons recorded here!!

 

 

[Ian Morgan]

Sorry to hear you cannot get to Alley Palley. I am busy working on a bit more scenic finish on Freshwater, as I like to add something for each new outing. The next time Freshwater can be seen will be at Bristol at the end of April. Hope you can make that one, maybe? No other invites received for this year, at the moment.

 

 

 

[GER_Jon]

Hi Ian it's a long way from North Norfolk but I might be in Wiltshire soon so I'll check those dates.

 

[GER_Jon]

I'm lucky to only have this one RMWEB topic so I've reinstated all the missing pictures today and in addition heres the progress that took place during the intermission.

First I attacked the big chimney to get it to a suitable size and drilled the top out -to do this it was soldered to a bit of scrap boiler to make handling easier. I do need to to improve my photographic efforts - they look ok on the small screen but when I get them ready for here not so good and too late now to redo but it shows the technique I've used. Falls off easily when exposed to the flame thrower.

 

Then onto the dome which here is sat loose in a hole located by its sprue, I'm just checking the "look" of the combination with respect to an S56 - I'm quite happy with this.

Because the dome sits astride the junction of the boiler and tanks I needed to completely remove the casting sprue ( not using a hole in the boiler for location) which is akward due to the flares so I used the mill.  To present the dome securely I drilled a hole in a piece of 6mm ply in which the dome was a tight fit ( the hole allowed me to push out the dome from underneath when finished). This jig also allowed me to file the dome to a good fit on the boiler surface. The photos I took are useless so I'll do that when the current hail storm abates and I can get to the shed.  You may be able to see in this picture the "german helmet" shape of the flares to accomodate the position required for fitting note the dome is perched in position when held properly it does stand nicely

 

 

The job I've been putting off comes next -- drilling handrail holes.

 

[GER_Jon]

Nipped to the shed and recreated the dome moment for posterity. Its surprisingly solid like this and allowed most of the sprue to be removed by the MF70 mill then finished with a file.  You can see where I cross filed to get the fit.  To complete the story I had polished the dome with wet and dry paper using the sprue to hold the dome in a drill chuck clamped in a vice prior to this step.

[GER_Jon]

Somehow caught covid last week but not bad with it (apart from lack of concentartion/ fatigue) and fixed now. Had a good session at the bench yesterday - drilled all the holes needed (I hope) and after some serious thought about the best order to fit bits i prepared the smokebox door (n brass) by filing away most of the rear to thin it down and soldered it on - this is how I got it horizontal and also shows how little the area for solder is.

 

Then on with the cab roof to get something looking a bit like an S56 loco. Another good example of the close up showing bits needing attention that pass me by in real life.

Before I fit boiler furniture I'm going to work up from the footplate - some filler needed on the boiler, sand boxes (plus operating rods), pipework, clack valves and westinghouse pump.   The n brass clack valves are slightly different to those in GER pictures so I sawed off one of the square bits and drilled a 0.35 mm hole into that end ready for the lower pipe (modified on right in pic. Still need to sort out the end into the boiler I'll have to solder the brass rod into the square end to give a handle . To give a clue how fiddly this is the following pic shows the part in my jewellers vice being sawed while held by the fat sprue sorry its not great.