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Citadel's Workbench - Carlisle in the 1890's


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Lovely models, great work. 

 

You have set yourself a bit of a challenge modelling the 1870s, most of the LNWR 4mm kits available tend to be from the later 1880's and 1890's..

 

I chose 1907 as a date for my modelling as it has the widest chioce of earlier and later locos and stock (even then it gets a bit bit variable if their is a kit for something I like).

Edited by Jol Wilkinson
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Lovely looking coaches, very nice job :).

Same as you, I find RMWeb a great source of info and inspiration but you're right that there's some seriously impressive and professional work on show.

I try to look at those things as inspiration though, as something to aim at - it stops them seeming so daunting!

 

How did you do the lining and the other fine paintwork on the coaches - bow pen or brush?

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On 26/01/2022 at 19:53, Jol Wilkinson said:

Lovely models, great work. 

 

You have set yourself a bit of a challenge modelling the 1870s, most of the LNWR 4mm kits available tend to be from the later 1880's and 1990's..

 

I chose 1907 as a date for my modelling as it has the widest chioce of earlier and later locos and stock (even then it gets a bit bit variable if their is a kit for something I like).

I didn’t know the LNWR lasted until the 1990’s so that is why there are so many 4 wheelers still about………..

 

Sorry will get my hat and coat.

 

Keith

p.s.  Great models considering being new to the hobby. Can we presume you are an experienced modeller in other avenues.

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Hi I hope that you dont mind, but I have mentioned this thread on the LNWR Society facebook page, as I have put photos of some of my coaches on there and some want to know how it is done. I think that your idea of using the yellow ink isnt as intimidating as the thought of abow pen. 

John 

Edited by Coal Tank
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Once again many thanks for the kind comments and feedback.  Am I an experienced modeller?  Have always been interested in drawing and illustration (hence the Rotring fixation) and yes I've dabbled in modelling - but never seriously.  Where I think I'll fall down is the fettling required to make a locomotive, especially one that runs smoothly - but at least have uninformed optimism on my side (imagine informed pessimism will come later).  Went down the EM route - I'm definitely not ready for P4.

 

The Saltley coaches didn't happen overnight - they were started last March and there's a fair amount of learning through by own mistakes in them.  What you see is not how they turned out the first time(!)  Am pleased with the end result though hence the confidence to dip my toe into actually posting.  

 

A bit off topic re: time period but here's what I finished last night.  LRM horse box (based on the D&S etches)  On the bottom says it's the D409 but the only variant on the LRM website is D438 (with an absolutely beautiful photo of a built model) - it is different though and looks to be a bit longer.  To be honest not a problem as what I've got looks great it's and it went together really nicely.  Can anyone solve the mystery though?

 

 

1172609200_HorseBox.jpg.7f34561dfd69f65c8776f7ee3d0b94c8.jpg

 

Painting had its drama's though.  First attempt at an undercoat used Halfords red oxide rattle can on top of the Phoenix Paints grey etch primer.  Did think it looked quite matte at the time but when I tried to paint the plum it just turned into faux fur.  Liberal application of paint stripper sorted the issue but also removed all the strapping that I'd stuck on with superglue (I'm looking longingly at a resistance soldering unit).  Used Halfords etch primer the second time and worked OK - in hindsight think I'd held the red oxide can too far away the first time and the paint had dried before reaching the model (hence creating a sponge).  One of those days....

 

Again lined with the Rotring (this time 0.13mm).  The narrow pens are really temperamental though on this sort of surface so in places had to go over twice to get the opacity.

 

Edited by Citadel
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I sympathise; I had some real trouble with rattle-cans and furry finish. Like you I concluded - after experimenting and after following lots of advice - that I was holding the can too far away, moving to fast / erratically and not getting enough paint on in each sweep: there needs to be enough paint, still wet, for it to 'pool', or perhaps 'flow' is a btter word, and form a smooth surface.

Looks like you got it sorted in the end though!

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Coal Tank (John), really impressed by your work - again your positive feedback is really welcome.  

 

Around the LNWR Society piece of course not an issue.  Bit worried that I might have made it sound a bit easier than it actually is.  You do need to be careful that the paint is really dry before lining the model as soft paint can block the nib resulting in a lot of bad language and repetitive strain injury from continually shaking the pen to get the ink to come out(!)  You do get there eventually though and as you say it's easier than a bowpen to those who feel a bit intimidated by that technique.

 

I won't even start with my experiments with Posca pens - that didn't end particularly well.

 

Best Regards

 

Mike

Edited by Citadel
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Mike,

 

does the code underneath the Horse Box say DS409? That was the original D&S kit code. The LNWR Horsebox, 10T Brake Van (with a new, different etched underframe) and the two early 26ft six wheel Luggage and Milk/Fruit vans in the LRM range are from  the D&S range.

 

I have found that airbrushing the basic body colours and primers is best (especially if you can get cellulose paint). That usually gives a thinner paint layer. Even with cellulose I leave the painted model in the airing cupboard for at least 24 hours to fully dry off. I too use Rotring Isograph pens for the final "plum" line along the beadings having applied the yellow with a bowpen. The downside of that is that semi-matt or satin paint drives with a slightly "rough"  surface and tends to wear the tubular nib end. So I started to apply the straight lines with a bowpen as I became a bit better at using one, using the Rotring to finish off the corner fillets. However your technique using inks only on the beading looks very good and I'll give it a try when the opportunity arises.

 

Jol

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Yep, DS409.  Good news, means that I can build a D438 as well now...    

 

Looking at the horse box again assume should have a white 'A' in the centre of the solebar (location of the automatic vacuum brake release)?  Was this just one side or both?   Also when leafing through LNWR Liveries by the HMRS (to try and find the answer to the question above) came across the 'Changing Engines at Stafford in the Early 1860's' painting by Gerald Broom.  The first carriage looks suspiciously like the brake third from the beginning of the post - it reminded me that I'd forgotten to put the red tail lights on it, will have to have a rummage around and find them.

 

The 26' Brake and the Fruit/Milk Van, they're next.  Need to fit roofs and wheels etc. then I'll post pictures

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3 hours ago, Citadel said:

Yep, DS409.  Good news, means that I can build a D438 as well now...    

 

Looking at the horse box again assume should have a white 'A' in the centre of the solebar (location of the automatic vacuum brake release)?  Was this just one side or both?   Also when leafing through LNWR Liveries by the HMRS (to try and find the answer to the question above) came across the 'Changing Engines at Stafford in the Early 1860's' painting by Gerald Broom.  The first carriage looks suspiciously like the brake third from the beginning of the post - it reminded me that I'd forgotten to put the red tail lights on it, will have to have a rummage around and find them.

 

The 26' Brake and the Fish Van, they're next.  Need to fit roofs and wheels etc. then I'll post pictures

 

You have already built a D438, the 409 is D&S's code for their LNWR  Diagram  438 kit. Confusing, isn't it. It doesn't help that both D numbers appear on the LNWRS website, the reference to a Diagram 409 as produced by D&S is wrong.

 

The "A" should appear on both solebars AFAIK.

 

I look forward to seeing the two 26' vans. Mike Williams (son of Geoff Williams who built the wonderful Aylesbury layout) wrote a piece in one of the magazines showng how he converted one of them to a four wheeler, which happened to several of them at some point.

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If your doing early Saltley period coaches.......
Then one (or more) of the Micro-Rail* Horse boxes might be more in period.
* That's who I had mine from, I know not who has them now........
Of course if you can possibly track down any of Mr Boucher's 'J. Wright' period coach etchings, then there was (amongst others) this too, which I admit looks similar to LRM's Saltley Coach.



 

Early Horse Box.jpg

Wright Coach - 1860's.jpg

Edited by Penlan
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13 minutes ago, Penlan said:

If your doing early Saltley period coaches.......
Then one (or more) of the Micro-Rail* Horse boxes might be more in period.
* That's who I had mine from, I know not who has them now........
Of course if you can possibly track down any of Mr Boucher's 'J. Wright' period coach etchings, then there was (amongst others) this too, which I admit looks similar to LRM's Saltley Coach.



 

Early Horse Box.jpg

Wright Coach - 1860's.jpg

Sandy, didn't the Microrail kits go to Alan Gibson, although they have't been available for some time.

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Penlan, first of all many thanks for sharing the photos, really enjoyed them and certainly food for thought.  Will digest properly and do justice to commenting on this in a future post.

 

Jol, many thanks for the clarification.  Just a comment then, might the photo accompanying the D438 kit on the LRM website be wrong - could this one be the D436 from Wizard/51L?  The quality of the painting on that model is just superb though, see it was done by Ian Rathbone and looking through his website flipping heck, how do you achieve that level of quality...

 

Right, 26' brake.  Finished it this afternoon.  Kit went together really nicely but have to say the way the wheels are mounted in the under frame doesn't fill me with confidence.   Built it as per the instructions though and everything looks to move smoothly (have also weighted the middle wheels with lead) - let's see....  Have coaches with the LRM Cleminson underframe on the go at the moment, seems a much better solution.

 

Now a confession, although I really enjoy making the models haven't actually bought any EM track yet(!)  Test track on my to-do list, did get a couple of the British Finescale point kits earlier this week.

 

 

449485162_26ftBrake.jpg.0affe0ada58c348cdf7852e76b49b49d.jpg

 

I love the looks of this carriage - the thought of those poor guards having to co-ordinate the operation of the chain brakes makes me smile/wince.

 

 

Edited by Citadel
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Quick question, any advice on the livery of the milk van?  Did it in plum and cream to reflect as initially converted - does it still have the yellow lettering on the plum panel and where does the numbering go.  Had a quick look through the books I have and can't seem to find the answer.

 

 

1979307716_MilkVan.jpg.4a10718f3bd04811bc7b721f6ee74474.jpg

 

Like the way you can see through it, need to get making some milk churns...

 

Edited by Citadel
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First, you would not have been able to see through the original panels,

They were built as per the first photo, so no need for Milk Churns.  I would suggest a black piece of card a millimeter or two behind the grills, not tight to them.
I stand to be corrected, but by the time these Brake Vans had been converted for Milk Traffic I suspect they were painted in NPCS Brown, but the Society's Livery Register indicates this is after 1905 for converted Brake Vans.
Prior to that, they were as you've shown, in passenger livery722375810_MilkVan5.jpg.6b36b39fd9516298bb74db4254ff0e73.jpg590661111_MilkVan.jpg.e47d3a4c289c85217a7a33ec8a89f5f0.jpg.Vents.jpg.42fe0e9aeb70340db7c2f355c7809be5.jpg
I do seem to have one of the earlier 4 Compt Luggage Vans converted to Milk Traffic, note the vents are polished Mahogany, or similar (Kit from Modellers World).
But back to the Converted Bk Van, Mine is in post 1905 livery, I don't seem to have lettered it for Milk Traffic, but.......
And I'm not sure where the number came from (many years ago), but until the Society manages to publish it's book on NPCS, these things will have to remain a mystery.
All E.& O.E. :rolleyes:




 

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Jol,
VERY much tongue in cheek and hopefully humour....... :jester:
Unfortunately I don't have an 'App' connected to my old Excel 'Stock List' of 449 items on the spreadsheet (and 15 vertical cols) , which will update the information as manufacturers/suppliers etc., come and go, often I'm lucky if I've even noted the origins of some of the stock, though there are some interesting names there from long ago. 
For instance Vacuum formed Plastikard side/ends luggage vans from Mike Peascod, and some 'Red Rose' etched products.
.
Like you Jol, the eyesight is not what it was, but at last after around 68 years* I now have a roundy-roundy layout at home  where I can sit (on a revolving bar stool  :rolleyes: ) and watch the trains go by/round.
* That was a 'Hornby Double OO' 3 rail on a 8 x 4 board.

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6 hours ago, Penlan said:

Jol,
VERY much tongue in cheek and hopefully humour....... :jester:
Unfortunately I don't have an 'App' connected to my old Excel 'Stock List' of 449 items on the spreadsheet (and 15 vertical cols) , which will update the information as manufacturers/suppliers etc., come and go, often I'm lucky if I've even noted the origins of some of the stock, though there are some interesting names there from long ago. 
For instance Vacuum formed Plastikard side/ends luggage vans from Mike Peascod, and some 'Red Rose' etched products.
.
Like you Jol, the eyesight is not what it was, but at last after around 68 years* I now have a roundy-roundy layout at home  where I can sit (on a revolving bar stool  :rolleyes: ) and watch the trains go by/round.
* That was a 'Hornby Double OO' 3 rail on a 8 x 4 board.

Sandy,

I didn't know about the Mike Peascod vac formed sides. I've used the Trevor Charlton etched zinc sides/ends (still got some, for a semi-Royal saloon) but never seen any Red Rose ones other than John Redrup's TPO's.

 

I tend to rely on the LNWRS 4mm modelling spreadsheet but that isn't definitive, especially for the older stuff.

 

I m working on the continuous layout, still at the baseboard building stage, but slowly getting there.

 

 

Mike,

I don't know the answer to the horsebox photo on the LRM site. It does look like the HB on the 51L site, which is the former PC Models kit. I have't got a built LRM version or a kit to compare with it.

 

Jol

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