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SECR 10t Covered Goods Wagon & 2 Plank Ballast Wagon


rapidoandy
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They do look very nice. A focus on SECR isn't particularly helpful for me, since I don't model that neck of the woods, but I understand the commercial value in making the best use of things such as frames that are common to multiple prototypes. Now, if only Rapido could do something which has a GER or RCH underfame :) 

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3 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

They do look very nice. A focus on SECR isn't particularly helpful for me, since I don't model that neck of the woods, but I understand the commercial value in making the best use of things such as frames that are common to multiple prototypes. Now, if only Rapido could do something which has a GER or RCH underfame :) 

 

Like most wagons the covered goods wagons got everywhere. SECR design wagons in Scotland - yep that happened!

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A brilliant choice, I just ordered 4 of each from my favourite model shop.

 

I'm now less and less motivated to build my Cambrian kits !!

 

Of course these wagons appeared rather late in SECR days so technically only those on the Bluebell can ran with a full Wainwright livery loco. 

Edited by JSpencer
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57 minutes ago, rapidoandy said:

 

Like most wagons the covered goods wagons got everywhere. SECR design wagons in Scotland - yep that happened!

 

Yes, I think I can probably justify a van. There's a classic "prototype for everything" photo of the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway of a J70 hauling a set of four vans, one from each of the Big Four companies.

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12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Did the bloke from Cambrian kick somebodies dog?

 

 

 

Jason


Yes, it’s a bit disappointing when there’s rafts and rafts of big 4 era (and earlier) wagons that aren’t available as RTR or kits that would perhaps sell more due to exclusivity of supply. 
 

CoY

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4 minutes ago, County of Yorkshire said:

Yes, it’s a bit disappointing when there’s rafts and rafts of big 4 era (and earlier) wagons that aren’t available as RTR or kits that would perhaps sell more due to exclusivity of supply.

 

Perhaps, though as is often mentioned most people aren't interested in building kits so the availability of a kit isn't likely to impact a RTR model's sales potential.

 

But unless a kit was made simply based on the interests of the kit maker then the availability of a kit is also an indication that the prototype is popular (and key, more popular than those items that don't have kits) and there is a market for it and thus also a good choice for a RTR model.  So it shouldn't come as a surprise when more and more kits also get released in a RTR form from the various manufactures as the hobby gets beyond the usual models.

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1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

I'm now less and less motivated to build my Cambrian kits

47 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Perhaps, though as is often mentioned most people aren't interested in building kits so the availability of a kit isn't likely to impact a RTR model's sales potential.

 

 

See quote from JSpencer above for a hint of the likelihood of the impact!

 

Obviously it's a minor matter, and you're right that people often won't build kits. It's just that ... well, I have sympathy for the Titfield position of Rapido ...

 

I guess, what troubles me, is if you use morality as a marketing tool, your actions (immediately after) had better not show you up to be as hardnosed as the company you're gathering support against. That's all.

Even though the wagons look really nice.

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1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

Perhaps, though as is often mentioned most people aren't interested in building kits so the availability of a kit isn't likely to impact a RTR model's sales potential.

 

But unless a kit was made simply based on the interests of the kit maker then the availability of a kit is also an indication that the prototype is popular (and key, more popular than those items that don't have kits) and there is a market for it and thus also a good choice for a RTR model.  So it shouldn't come as a surprise when more and more kits also get released in a RTR form from the various manufactures as the hobby gets beyond the usual models.

I imagine the commonality of the underframes was a factor in Cambrian picking the SECR group of wagons, just as it has been for Rapido.

 

I'd better get on with painting my kit-builds before my pre-ordered r-t-r ones arrive....

 

RTR encroaching on kit-makers' "territory" is nothing new. Three quarters of Bachmann wagons duplicate Parkside or Ratio kits (recently unified as "Parkside by Peco"). It's one area where Hornby seem to be markedly less aggressive, though they have done a few NPCCS vehicles previously only available as kits.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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50 minutes ago, DavidH said:

See quote from JSpencer above for a hint of the likelihood of the impact!

 

Um, I never commented on the impact on the kit makers, but rather the effect of the availability of kits has on RTR sales - which essentially is not much.

 

Those who are dedicated kit builders aren't going to buy RTR regardless.

 

Those who, like JSpencer, abandon kits for the RTR offering will be a very small portion of RTR sales.

 

50 minutes ago, DavidH said:

Obviously it's a minor matter, and you're right that people often won't build kits. It's just that ... well, I have sympathy for the Titfield position of Rapido ...

 

I'm not sure how the two circumstances are the same.

 

The issue isn't that Hornby are making Lion, which they certainly are entitled to do.

 

Hornby can also make a Loriot-Y, the bus, the brake van, etc.

 

What they can't do is use the Titfield IP, of which Rapido have an exclusive license from the IP rights holder.

 

50 minutes ago, DavidH said:

I guess, what troubles me, is if you use morality as a marketing tool, your actions (immediately after) had better not show you up to be as hardnosed as the company you're gathering support against. That's all.

 

Again, I think you are misreading the situation - it is/was all about IP licensing rights, something Hornby has taken advantage of in the past to make Olympics, Harry Potter, Thomas, and other things - and Hornby continues to use to their advantage for other non-Titfield items they hold current licenses for.

 

As for the issue of kit makers, consider the following.

 

In the past the most "popular" items were made in RTR, and the kit makers chose from the 2nd level of popularity for the stuff they made - because they of course wanted popular items that would sell well.

 

But that was always going to be a double-edged sword - that same popularity that ensured good sales for the kit makers was going to eventually mean a RTR version would come to market - all the more so now that there is so much RTR product being tooled for the UK market.  You simply can't have the market tool 30+ new items a year and avoid stuff currently available in kit form - because as noted above the stuff available in kit form is popular and wanted.

 

This isn't about Rapido - because if Rapido didn't offer these then eventually Accurascale, Cavalex, Revolution, Bachmann, Dapol, or someone else would.

 

If you are a kit builder, then you should look at this as a good thing.  One, it means some existing kits are going to be sold off cheaper for you to buy.  Two, it means those kit companies are going to need to develop more new kits to stay in business, offering you a better variety of kits to purchase new.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mdvle said:

Um, I never commented on the impact on the kit makers, but rather the effect of the availability of kits has on RTR sales - which essentially is not much.

 

Oh dear. Sorry, yes, I inverted your point in my head after reading JSpencer's post.

 

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

Again, I think you are misreading the situation - it is/was all about IP licensing rights

 

But there, I disagree that I did. I know exactly what the other discussion was about, but this thread is not about that discussion. There are far too many pages on it already.

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In my experience, there are quite a few people who don't consider themselves "builders" but cheerfully make up plastic wagon kits (also buildings), though they wouldn't dream of tackling anything that involves soldering!

 

Parkside in particular, with the wheels and bearings in the bag, have long been the first point of entry for those without the confidence/know-how to source the bits and pieces separately. From there, having snapped a few off many graduate to adding metal buffers, then maybe brake gear and gradually, confidence grows.

 

Wagon kits used to work out a bit more expensive than RTR, but lately, a plastic kit-built wagon seldom costs more than half the price of new-tool RTR wagons being announced (Oxford Rail excepted, at least for now).

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Can anyone clarify the situation with the varying rain strip positions on the vans.

 

Was one method more favoured than another at any time, do we know roughly which was the more numerous style, etc

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Not so long ago I would only consider SR/LSWR locomotives for my 'Cornish' layout, all RTR.  Now this has expanded to other SR constituents.  First it was LBSC locos (the Atlantics), then SECR coaches (the Birdcages). Now, thanks to Rapido, I've begun to order SECR wagons.  So much for discipline.

But I now have my first locomotive kit on my workbench.  Ironically it is a Hardy's Hobbies offering!

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7 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Can anyone clarify the situation with the varying rain strip positions on the vans.

 

Was one method more favoured than another at any time, do we know roughly which was the more numerous style, etc

 

Now this is a tricky one!

 

We have no definitive date or answer as such. The SECR works drawing shows curved rain strips and all the SECR photos we have of these vans (there aren't many) show curved rain strips. The preserved SECR livery van on the bluebell has straight rain strips.

 

Straight rain stirps seem to have started in SR days, both the common short type as we have produced, but also a full length straight version that seems to be less common. Some vehicles retained curved rain strips all the way through their lives.

 

Andy

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10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Can anyone clarify the situation with the varying rain strip positions on the vans.

 

Was one method more favoured than another at any time, do we know roughly which was the more numerous style, etc

The rain strip position on the model appears to represent as-built condition. All the photos of vans in SECR livery I've been able to turn up since the announcement show this version. There's no indication of them being changed before SR days.

 

There is a photo of one in BR Departmental use in Southern Wagons Vol.3 showing that still in place. Others in that source show full-length cantrail battens (or possibly channels), and some with an apparent absence of rain strips; the reinforcing plate above the doors (evident on vans in both SR and BR days) presumably being considered sufficient. In one case, the edge batten/channel is present with the reinforcing plate above it!

 

So four distinct arrangements (at least) but no obvious evidence to when each was introduced. My guess is that, rather than being amendments to the Diagram they, as likely as not, reflect where the van received its previous repair/overhaul.

 

What does seem clear, though, is that some vans retained the original style throughout their working lives, so it's not inappropriate for any livery. Unless Rapido plan to produce more than one roof moulding, there'll be scope for some (fairly straightforward) personalisation to represent particular vans in photos. Numbers will (hopefully) have been picked to match condition, otherwise those of us who are fastidious about such things will have a bit of modelling to do.....

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Andy you are a very naughty boy.  Yet again you are forcing this poor old pensioner to spend money on toy trains while my wife and children will no doubt have to starve in order to fund my 'hobby' - and these things aren't even GWR :scratchhead:  You are leading me into an act of sacrilege by attacking my wilpower with delectable offerings and I object most strongly sorry, correction - the bank account objects most strongly.

 

PS if you are going to see the light and give some thought to any vehicles from the real railway have a word with me first because my dwindling bank account cannot stand any duplication of effort by manufacturers committed to decent quality and doing the right thing when it comes to getting the right permissions to duplicate commercial images owned by someone else (even if they are French)

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2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

PS if you are going to see the light and give some thought to any vehicles from the real railway have a word with me first because my dwindling bank account cannot stand any duplication of effort by manufacturers committed to decent quality and doing the right thing when it comes to getting the right permissions to duplicate commercial images owned by someone else (even if they are French)

 

If the latest Hunslet video with Andy's choice of reading material is any guide I fear for your poor bank account, though I am sure the sacrifice would be worth it to make many people happy.

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