Graham Farish Spring 2022 Announcements

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Unlike Accurascale Deltics, Farish boxes can be concealed in a pocket.

Just happy to see her eh? 

[woodenhead]

 

30 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Just happy to see her eh? 

Or is that a Deltic in your pocket.

 

Just an 03 dear

[njee20]

5 hours ago, Suffolk Rob said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see a sound 66, they seem to be typically slower of the mark on the new liveries than Dapol (my impression that may not be backed up by fact) and sound might tip the balance of 66 sales their way?

 

Whether we welcome that depends I suppose on our view of sound. I wasn't bothered but my 31 got me hooked. If  I'm correct on their strategy and we see a steady flow of sound upgrades I agree it presents a dilemma regarding my existing collection

 

Rob

IMO the market is crying out for a high spec 66. Both Dapol and Farish models are quite dated, and neither is particularly good IMO. It would be a huge shame for Farish to do just the chassis upgrade on theirs IMO. Even just fixing the seam across the cab front would be an improvement!

 

Then release some bog standard liveries; DB with large bodyside logos, EWS/DB, GBRf post Europorte. Aside from one Dapol 66 in a train pack they’ve never done any of those! Yet they keep duplicating the ‘celebrity’ liveries!

[Les1952]

On 03/02/2022 at 20:30, romley midland said:

Which I find surprising as the video seemed to explain it well enough to me and the Bachmann website gives pretty clear details about the model and it’s spec.

 

The video I found an excellent cure for insomnia- there went 26 minutes of my life I won't get back....

 

Of the announcements the sound fitted 08 is the most promising, though judging by the ability of my present DCC fitted 08 to find every speck of dirt on the track as an excuse to stop I feel that losing cab interior for a stay-alive would be a more than acceptable compromise.  I'll probably have one and get stay-alive fitted.  The layout after next will need a good station pilot and a sound-fitted green 08 is suitable- provided it can handle seven coaches on an R2 curve, which is the largest the available space will allow me.  If Sonic's 56xx is anything to go by their J50 won't have the guts for the job.

 

The sound should be good- my Bachmann 08 sounds just like an 08 in the same way Hornby's doesn't....  This one has had stay alive added and runs as well as it sounds.

 

Les

 

Thinking about it my Bachmann 08 might not be factory sound- unlike Hornby's which definitely IS the pre-TTS sound.

 

PPS- Maroon Thompsons are well overdue for announcement.........

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Les1952
typos and a pps

[Les1952]

Following an interesting comment elsewhere about the number of missing items from the current  Farish catalogue I did some counting and comparing.

 

The latest Farish catalogue lists 89 items of motive power, (14 steam of 6 classes, 49 diesels of 6 classes and 26 multiple units of 12 classes).

 

Using Bachmann's  method of measurement and applying it to Dapols's catalogue gives 53 steam of 10 classes, 74 diesel/electric of 14 classes and 23 MU of 7 classes including HST.

 

That means in terms of number of N gauge items of motive power Farish has moved itself to second place behind Dapol.  Interesting.

 

Dapol is still well behind in coaches but wagons seem to be getting close.

 

Les

 

 

[JR_P]

I’m actually pretty happy with this announcement for several reasons….

 

1) my expectations were literally zero…. so anything in it for me more than nothing was going to be a positive outcome!

 

2) I operate DC and DCC but I only buy DCC ready locos, otherwise they’d be limited to the DC layout…. so when I saw that the 08 has received the DCC treatment, I was very happy - doubly so because of the RSS 08 - I’d always fancied one of those, but never actually expected Farish would produce RTR!

 

3) the TfW 769 - whilst pleasantly surprised to see that Farish have done this, frankly, it was blindingly logical and I would like to think they had accounted for this in their 319 tooling right from the outset…. I will certainly have one, but at £300 [discounted], that is what; £50 for each trailer and £150 for the powered vehicle…. I guess that is about what could be expected these days [sigh]….

[TomE]

46 minutes ago, JR_P said:

 I guess that is about what could be expected these days [sigh]….

 

By way of comparison between 4 car EMU/BiMUs, using the RoS pre-order prices:

 

The Farish 450 is:          £318.70

The Farish 769 is:          £297.45

The Revolution 321 is:  £289.50

The Farish 319 is:          £271.96

 

Of course if you were in at the start for the Revolution 321/320 they do seem like an absolute bargain now, but it shows that when you take away the early Revolution business model, the market price for a 4 car EMU is in that £270-£320 range now. 

 

Tom. 

[grahame]

On 05/02/2022 at 11:11, Les1952 said:

 

The latest Farish catalogue lists 89 items of motive power, (14 steam of 6 classes, 49 diesels of 6 classes and 26 multiple units of 12 classes).

 

 

I'm quite surprised that Farish do that many different MUs - but presumably that's counting variants (like 170/3 and 170/5) as separate. And, of course, many are still awaiting completion and delivery (according to the website) so aren't available ATM. It'll be a great day when they do turn up.

 

 

[Les1952]

3 hours ago, grahame said:

 

I'm quite surprised that Farish do that many different MUs - but presumably that's counting variants (like 170/3 and 170/5) as separate. And, of course, many are still awaiting completion and delivery (according to the website) so aren't available ATM. It'll be a great day when they do turn up.

 

 

 

The only ones I counted separately were 150/1 and 150/2.

 

The 26 was Bachmann's number for the number of items in the MU section of the catalogue, includes each separately available livery/number listed.  The 12 classes (by my count) are 150/1, 150/2, 170, 101, 220, 350, 450, Blue Pullman, 158, 108, 709 and 319, these being the classes referred to in the descriptors under each picture.

 

Blue Pullman included as an MU for Farish mirrors my including HST in MUs for Dapol.  It may be debatably categorised but it is consistently applied.......

 

Les

 

[Bomag]

21 hours ago, TomE said:

 

By way of comparison between 4 car EMU/BiMUs, using the RoS pre-order prices:

 

The Farish 450 is:          £318.70

The Farish 769 is:          £297.45

The Revolution 321 is:  £289.50

The Farish 319 is:          £271.96

 

Of course if you were in at the start for the Revolution 321/320 they do seem like an absolute bargain now, but it shows that when you take away the early Revolution business model, the market price for a 4 car EMU is in that £270-£320 range now. 

 

Tom. 

 

BR should have built the the last three as 5 cars and we could have compared then to the Kato 800s - which are £180 

[TomE]

44 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

BR should have built the the last three as 5 cars and we could have compared then to the Kato 800s - which are £180 

 

Sadly, it appears that is likely to remain something of an anomaly. KATO don't seem to be in any hurry to move further into British N, even with other liveries and variations of the Class 800 family. 

 

Tom. 

[boxbrownie]

57 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

BR should have built the the last three as 5 cars and we could have compared then to the Kato 800s - which are £180 

It is a great shame, as back in the 9-‘s I got into Japanese N gauge when I worked in Japan, I bought tons of the stuff (it was dirt cheap on the exchange rate back then) and the N gauge engines ran sooooo much better than our very best 4mm stuff of the day, to add insult to injury fitting DCC was a simple matter of unclipping the battery/AC boxes under the model and sliding in a decoder, could be done in about a minute or less.

 

Still have it all, Locos, dmu/emus, wagons……all in a box. 

[Revolution Ben]

1 hour ago, Bomag said:

 

BR should have built the the last three as 5 cars and we could have compared then to the Kato 800s - which are £180 

 

We could, but it would be something of a meaningless comparison as the production quantities are vastly different:  Models destined for the UK market alone are likely to have a production run of around 2000-3000; Kato have said openly in the past that their minimum run for any given livery is 10,000; and in addition the vast majority of their Eurostars and now Class 800s they expect to sell in Japan, where the population is double that of the UK and the model railway market (dominated by N) market is conservatively estimated to be 40-50 times larger.

 

If Farish - or Revolution, come to that - were producing 10,000 313s or 321s the price would be significantly reduced as all the fixed costs - design, tooling, paint masks, tampo masters - which comprise around 75% of the total price are spread over far more models.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[njee20]

56 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

It is a great shame, as back in the 9-‘s I got into Japanese N gauge when I worked in Japan, I bought tons of the stuff (it was dirt cheap on the exchange rate back then) and the N gauge engines ran sooooo much better than our very best 4mm stuff of the day, to add insult to injury fitting DCC was a simple matter of unclipping the battery/AC boxes under the model and sliding in a decoder, could be done in about a minute or less.

 

Still have it all, Locos, dmu/emus, wagons……all in a box. 

Tell that to the people who waited 6 months from delivery of their 800s for the proprietary decoders to be available!

[Bomag]

20 minutes ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

We could, but it would be something of a meaningless comparison as the production quantities are vastly different:  Models destined for the UK market alone are likely to have a production run of around 2000-3000; Kato have said openly in the past that their minimum run for any given livery is 10,000; and in addition the vast majority of their Eurostars and now Class 800s they expect to sell in Japan, where the population is double that of the UK and the model railway market (dominated by N) market is conservatively estimated to be 40-50 times larger.

 

If Farish - or Revolution, come to that - were producing 10,000 313s or 321s the price would be significantly reduced as all the fixed costs - design, tooling, paint masks, tampo masters - which comprise around 75% of the total price are spread over far more models.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Scale of production is an issue, but for GF the best answer is to produce more seconds in a batch (or two or three different seconds) so reducing the fixed costs per model. It will then avoid modellers moaning about the lack of seconds. This is seemingly similar to NGS who have 245 yellow carflats left and none of the more obvious liveries. There can be anomalies but it's not rocket science. At least for revolution its clearer where the market is.  

[Pmorgancym]

54 minutes ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

We could, but it would be something of a meaningless comparison as the production quantities are vastly different:  Models destined for the UK market alone are likely to have a production run of around 2000-3000; Kato have said openly in the past that their minimum run for any given livery is 10,000; and in addition the vast majority of their Eurostars and now Class 800s they expect to sell in Japan, where the population is double that of the UK and the model railway market (dominated by N) market is conservatively estimated to be 40-50 times larger.

 

If Farish - or Revolution, come to that - were producing 10,000 313s or 321s the price would be significantly reduced as all the fixed costs - design, tooling, paint masks, tampo masters - which comprise around 75% of the total price are spread over far more models.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

I wonder what other iconic UK trains we could interest the Japanese in.  HST perhaps?  442?

[bmthtrains - David]

25 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

I wonder what other iconic UK trains we could interest the Japanese in.  HST perhaps?  442?

The next UK multiple unit to have a similar sales potential in Japan as the 800 will probably be the as yet un-numbered HS2 sets, given they will be part built by Hitachi and be of true TGV/Shinkansen class.

 

David 

[grahame]

5 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

The only ones I counted separately were 150/1 and 150/2.

 

The 26 was Bachmann's number for the number of items in the MU section of the catalogue, includes each separately available livery/number listed.  The 12 classes (by my count) are 150/1, 150/2, 170, 101, 220, 350, 450, Blue Pullman, 158, 108, 709 and 319, these being the classes referred to in the descriptors under each picture.

 

 

FYI, whether they are counted separately or not, is that basically the class 450 is the class 350 without the pantograph and pick up shoe beams stuck on the bogies, and (presuming you mean class 769 rather than 709) that is basically the 319 body shell with a diesel engine installed underneath. And the model versions of all three (450, 319 and 769) haven't yet arrived, but is something to look forward to.

HTH.

 

 

 

[njee20]

If you want to be hyper pedantic (and it is a favourite pastime of mine!) the 350/1 even has the shoe beams, so the 450 is literally just the lack of a pantograph. 

[acg5324]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but the items due in Jan / Feb such as the Met-Cam DMUs are now due May / June.

Next items to arrive appear to be the c150s in April/ May.

[scottystitch]

12 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

Scale of production is an issue, but for GF the best answer is to produce more seconds in a batch (or two or three different seconds) so reducing the fixed costs per model. It will then avoid modellers moaning about the lack of seconds. This is seemingly similar to NGS who have 245 yellow carflats left and none of the more obvious liveries. There can be anomalies but it's not rocket science. At least for revolution its clearer where the market is.  

Whilst I take your point re the yellow Railease Carflats, there are still 39 in BR Blue and 149 in BR Bauxite.

 

Best

Scott.

[Revolution Ben]

14 hours ago, Bomag said:

This is seemingly similar to NGS who have 245 yellow carflats left and none of the more obvious liveries. There can be anomalies but it's not rocket science. At least for revolution its clearer where the market is.  

 

Hi there,

 

It may not be rocket science, but it is certainly not an exact science.  When commissioning products there are a variety of factors to consider, and some are more flexible than others.  These include but are not limited to:

 

1)  What is the minimum order the manufacturer will accept to tool up and produce for any given model.

2)  How many variations occurred during the life of the prototype, and which of these are worth offering.

3)  What is the minimum order the manufacturer will accept for different variations/liveries within the overall total.

4)  What is the market likely to want in the next 5 or so years?  For example, it is fairly well documented that sales of BR Blue models have grown significantly in the last 5 years against the formerly dominant transition era.  It is quite possible that the yellow Railease wagons and air braked Bauxite wagons - associated with the late 70s on - will become more popular as the demographic changes.

5)  In the case of the carflats, the arrangement with Bachmann was that the models would enter the Farish range after 2 years, so it is entirely likely that future runs of the more popular models will come.

 

These are just some of the considerations that are made at the commissioning stage - which is often 18 months or more before the models appear - and I am happy to acknowledge that we don't always get it exactly right.  

 

You are correct though that Revolution's pre-order business model can mitigate against these uncertainties (which is one reason we do it) but it can't see it working for the NGS or Farish.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

[The Pilotman]

15 hours ago, Bomag said:

This is seemingly similar to NGS who have 245 yellow carflats left and none of the more obvious liveries. 

If someone (Oxford Diecast for example) were to introduce a suitable load for these (say, a 1970s or 80s Ford Transit van) then I’m sure that figure would reduce very quickly. 

[boxbrownie]

15 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

I wonder what other iconic UK trains we could interest the Japanese in.  HST perhaps?  442?

One issue is the Japanese N (1:160) is a different scale to ours.

[Pmorgancym]

34 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

One issue is the Japanese N (1:160) is a different scale to ours.

KATO 800s are UK scale are they not?  No ones mentioned them being 1/160