Improving the look of 1980s RTR coaches

[Macforrest]

Coaches ready for painting....

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Macforrest

[Macforrest]

6 hours ago, MJI said:

May be crude mouldings but the body is a very good shape.

Absolutely, it certainly captures the essence of the prototype.... I'm sure a lot of work went into the design and moulding, the limitations were the technology and processes of the time!

[MJI]

I fitted EE frames to one of them, but glazing, Laserglaze is too small for the hole so will have to cut my own.

[Macforrest]

On 25/02/2022 at 11:00, MJI said:

I fitted EE frames to one of them, but glazing, Laserglaze is too small for the hole so will have to cut my own.

Martin, it would be interesting to see how this turns out it if you'd be happy to share some pics?

I used SE Finecast vac formed glazing on the Lima Mk2bs I started working on 20ish years ago and still have some left over packs so I'll be using these....a bit tedious filing out the window frames to get them to fit though!

[Macforrest]

Now the paint has dried, a coat of gloss varnish has airbrushed on. Rub-down Howes Network SouthEast brandings were added where the ‘Inter City’ logo once sat and as this is a ‘conversion’ to a BFK, first class ‘1’s added to the passenger access doors. Coaches were renumbered 17082 & 5355, which would have been in blue/grey livery around the time being modelled and allocated to Laira for use on West of England trains. Load limit and vehicle data and restriction decals were also applied, a mix of standard Railtech and bespoke Rainbow Railways products, before a final coat of Humbrol satin varnish was brushed on.

 

I had also previously (over 20 years ago) fitted South Eastern Finecast flush glazing; this is a relatively fiddly but not difficult job, which entails carefully filing out the internal edge of the window frames with a selection of flat and radiused mini files. The glazing can then be pressed in place from the back of the window (having cut each set of window mouldings into separate pieces). A lip was left to prevent the glazing from pushing all the way through and this can be secured to the shell with a light brush of liquid poly adhesive to the back of the window frames. The flashing from around the edge of the window mouldings could be completely trimmed allowing the glazing to be pushed further into the frame for a more flush fit, so I might try this another time. Finally, .45mm brass wire, painted grey, was fixed to represent the window bars in the brake compartment.

[Macforrest]

Undercarriage modifications were straightforward; buffers removed with a razor saw and centres marked and drilled to take the MJT cast buffers before sanding to a smooth finish with 320 then 400 grit sanding sticks. I find these really useful for get into small spaces or for fine detail work. I had also previously cut a gap in the original buffer beam to accept a Kadee buckeye coupling, so had to work around this. All of the West of England Mk2 stock will eventually be fitted with these.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Macforrest

[Macforrest]

The bracket for the distributor valve was fabricated from 40 thou plastic strip and fixed in place with liquid poly. Behind this sits a casting of the Westinghouse distributor valve and associated air tank (Stenson Models), connected by a ‘pipe’ made from .45mm brass wire bent to shape and located in 0.5mm holes drilled into the castings using a pin vice. This is mounted on strips of 60thou x 5.8mm plasticard fixed across the underframe to raise (or lower!) the detailed parts to be flush with the solebar. MJT buffers were fitted and some profiled plasticard added to deepen the bufferbeam before the whole lot was sprayed with grey primer. Left overnight to dry, several coats of Railmatch satin black aerosol were then applied. The overall look is less plasticky than the original finish, so worth doing.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Macforrest

[MJI]

A 2A BFK, still unglazed

 

[Macforrest]

Apologies for lack of updates!! As a bit of an experiment, I've looked at how I can improve the bogies.....

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Macforrest

[Macforrest]

The original metal tyred plastic wheels  don't run particularly well and the there's little depth to the moulded detail, again mostly due to the technology of the time....

Detail was deepened by cutting away the moulded brake shoes and fixing MJT cast shoes much closer to the wheels. Primed and sprayed in the same way as the undercarriage, and with the addition of Alan Gibson 12.1mm (scale 3’1”) wheels, the improvement is quite significant! 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Macforrest

[Macforrest]

The finished TSO (I only completed a pair of modified bogies, these will be fitted to the BFK which is not quite finished yet!)

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Macforrest

[andyman7]

On 19/02/2022 at 17:36, Macforrest said:

Before re-assembly, battery boxes were filled with ‘liquid lead’ from DC Concepts, and seating attached with adhesive to the underframe.

It’s a shame that the printing of the stripes is not very precise where the doors wrap around the coach ends; some touching in was done with a brush but I will have to look at a better solution on the next ones as under scrutiny it does not look terribly neat!

 

 

Apologies if some of what I've described here is just repeating modifications seen from other projects; but the obvious stuff is often the thing that provides the biggest visual improvement....!

 

The next job is the pair of Hornby/Triang Mk2a’s….

A very nice job! I have a few Lima Mk2fs that I have flushglazed and detailed but you've gone further than me with the handrails. For some reason the clip-on corridor connections on Lima Mk2s feature a fictitious gangway floor plate in a raised position which I see you've left in place - it's a simple job to cut it off.

[MJI]

On 05/03/2022 at 16:46, Macforrest said:

Apologies for lack of updates!! As a bit of an experiment, I've looked at how I can improve the bogies.....

 

I had a few some gave away the three with those bogies, and kept the good ones. But if the recipients don't want them anymore I will chuck Replica B4 under them.

[Richard_A]

What's wrong with the lima b4 bogie? 

[MJI]

13 hours ago, rka said:

What's wrong with the lima b4 bogie? 

Wrong way round and nasty wheels

[BernardTPM]

Difficult to fit to Tri-ang/Hornby coaches as the clip-fit is quite different dimensionally and the plastic used all but impossible to glue.

[Signaller69]

Always nice to see folk upgrading the older models, coaches particularly. Done several Mk.1s but not tackled any Mk.2s yet so following with interest.

[Signaller69]

Always nice to see folk upgrading the older models, coaches particularly. Done several Traing Mk.1 cut & shuts but not tackled any Mk.2s yet so following with interest.

 

Martyn.

[Halvarras]

On 05/03/2022 at 16:56, Macforrest said:

The original metal tyred plastic wheels  don't run particularly well and the there's little depth to the moulded detail, again mostly due to the technology of the time....

Detail was deepened by cutting away the moulded brake shoes and fixing MJT cast shoes much closer to the wheels. Primed and sprayed in the same way as the undercarriage, and with the addition of Alan Gibson 12.1mm (scale 3’1”) wheels, the improvement is quite significant! 

 

It's a pity that when these bogies were modified from rivetted to clip-fit a fictitious extra beam was added on top of the main frame, spoiling the appearance. The three 'brackets' fail to make it look authentic.....

 

Back in 1978 I bought three Hornby Mark 1s in a shop in Reading - BSK & CK in 'LMS' maroon and a CK in 'Southern' green. Only when I got them home did I notice that the maroon CK erroneously sported a pair of B4 bogies, still rivetted on back then - which was fine by me as I intended to repaint it into blue/grey livery anyway  The only issue was that the vehicle rode a tad higher than the other two, since Tri-ang Hornby had tooled the B4 bogie purely for the Mark 2s and not considered cross-fitting to their Mark 1s at that time.

 

I found the metal-tyred 'Silver Seal' wheels very disappointing when they first appeared and replaced all mine with the shiny one-piece plastic moulded wheelsets which came out later since I found that these invariably ran true. I know metal is better but in my view stock wobbling down the track shouts 'toy' not 'model'!

[Richard_A]

6 hours ago, MJI said:

Wrong way round and nasty wheels

Nothing hard to fix then. 

[DCB]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

I found the metal-tyred 'Silver Seal' wheels very disappointing when they first appeared and replaced all mine with the shiny one-piece plastic moulded wheelsets which came out later since I found that these invariably ran true. I know metal is better but in my view stock wobbling down the track shouts 'toy' not 'model'!

With a back to back of around 13.8mm the silver seal wheels are almost fine scale 3mm width. Absolutely appalling especially the square axle variety. I use to cut the axles in half and slip tubes over the stubs to get towards 14.25mm with variable results.  The biggest problems I get with MK2s (and 1s) is gap between coaches. Obvuously the gangways should touch, but less obviously the buffer heads should not.  A conscious decision needs to be made whether the coach is an end vehicle or one within a set. I use Triang or Mainline or Airfix couplings between coaches in a set (Including Hornby and Lima stock)  and Hornby Dublo to couple to locos.  

I also trim back the buffers or the buffer stocks to get them back out of the way. If I didn't have a 3rd radius curve and some 2ft Radius reverse curves I would use the gangways as buffers for propelling and the couplings for pulling.  But its good to see old Hornby models upgraded.   I have been converting a Hachette Mk1 SK to SO using a Hornby Mk2 SO interior to run with Triang Mk1s and fitting interiors to Triang Thompsons by cutting up Mk1 interiors and to Triang Caledonian coaches by cutting up  Mainline (AFAIK) interiors bought as a job lot.

50 year old coaches refurbished, repainted Green and snubbed by my son who preferred to buy a set of Hornby Maunsells to replace them even before I completed the set.   Still it gives me something to do.

[MJI]

6 hours ago, rka said:

Nothing hard to fix then. 

 

Easier to drop Replica under, done this with some Lima as well.

[Richard_A]

6 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

Easier to drop Replica under, done this with some Lima as well.

I have a load of etched bogie frames to make up, if I can reuse the lima side frame and stick them on then it's better for my pocket. 

[BernardTPM]

On 09/03/2022 at 04:23, DCB said:

With a back to back of around 13.8mm the silver seal wheels are almost fine scale 3mm width. Absolutely appalling especially the square axle variety.

 

The original 1973 Silver Seal wheels were a much better quality item than the later, very much cheapened, square axle variety. The axle was metal (probably steel), the tyres turned nickel silver with spoked plastic wheel centres, very similar to what Wrenn was using around that time. Back to back was 14.3mm. The square axle shown below has a b2b of approx. 13.7mm but the later round axle version reverts to 14.3mm. Both are simply a thin plated tyre over a plastic wheel/axle moulding, but the round versions do run reasonably true.

Edited March 31, 2022 by BernardTPM

[DCB]

Those steel axle metal tyre wheels are excellent, much better than the later Wrenn ones which tend to suffer from loose tyres.  I have quite a few but have never known who made them.  I have a set of 7 Triang Caledonian coaches in green  various Triang Suburbans retrofitted 40 (50?)  odd years ago with the same wheels on shouldered Triang style steel pin point axles and 8 H/D SD coaches with very similar wrenn wheels on non pin point axles.  They are all excellent at staying on the track.  No constant re setting B to B like current Hornby wheels or turning the corner on Diamonds like RP 25 flanges on non coned wheels love to do.