LNER/eastern region MPD track plans

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Hello all,

 

I am considering the building of a LNER mpd (more likely a section of one) in 4mm, and I was wondering if we might have any track plans? The only parameters are that it has to fit within a 6ft x 2 ft space, and that's pretty optimistic so the smaller the better.

 

I would at least like to include a double row engine and shed and a coaling/water tower, anything else is a bonus really.

 

 

thanks,

 

Douglas

[drmditch]

If you are interested in locations north of Doncaster, 'North Eastern Railway Engine Sheds', edited by John Addyman and published by NERA is excellent.

Link here

 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 hours ago, drmditch said:

If you are interested in locations north of Doncaster, 'North Eastern Railway Engine Sheds', edited by John Addyman and published by NERA is excellent.

Link here

 

Thanks I will definitely take a look.

[DCB]

The trouble with the LNER is most of that enterprise retained a Pre grouping feel right up until 1945 -50 in fact the last Steam loco active in Scotland was a pre grouping North British 0-6-0.

You really need to work out which LNER Constituent you wish to model.  Its much easier to model ex LNER British Railways as the LNER was handed shed loads of cash post war and churned out lots of indifferent B1,and K1 and worst of all L1 locos to replace the wonderful old pre group 4-6-0 , 4-4-2 and 4-4-0 locos.   My son is battling with this, his A4s A3 and 02 are very much mainline locos yet we don't have room for an LNER main line.   Kings cross had a small  depot just by the station, separate to the Top Shed complex which might suit.  Grantham had a shed right in the geographical middle of nowhere which was about as far from home as a KX Pacific dared to venture before being Swindonised in the 50s so that might be a scenario, but beside the A1/3/4 V2/J39/04 and B1 the majority of the locos at an LNER depot will be from one pre group company and few are available RTR.   GC is best served and yet they had few A3 and no A1/A4.  The Great Western is so much easier to model.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 minutes ago, DCB said:

The trouble with the LNER is most of that enterprise retained a Pre grouping feel right up until 1945 -50 in fact the last Steam loco active in Scotland was a pre grouping North British 0-6-0.

You really need to work out which LNER Constituent you wish to model.  Its much easier to model ex LNER British Railways as the LNER was handed shed loads of cash post war and churned out lots of indifferent B1,and K1 and worst of all L1 locos to replace the wonderful old pre group 4-6-0 , 4-4-2 and 4-4-0 locos.   My son is battling with this, his A4s A3 and 02 are very much mainline locos yet we don't have room for an LNER main line.   Kings cross had a small  depot just by the station, separate to the Top Shed complex which might suit.  Grantham had a shed right in the geographical middle of nowhere which was about as far from home as a KX Pacific dared to venture before being Swindonised in the 50s so that might be a scenario, but beside the A1/3/4 V2/J39/04 and B1 the majority of the locos at an LNER depot will be from one pre group company and few are available RTR.   GC is best served and yet they had few A3 and no A1/A4.  The Great Western is so much easier to model.

I'm more or less looking for somewhere where one would often see V2's, as I've just bought the Bachmann one. I would prefer a former NER area though maybe around Darlington.

[DCB]

NER   Good choice.  But the volume of BR Steam Locomotive Depots I don't have.  C'est Lavvy.

Edited February 28, 2022 by DCB

[tractionman]

16 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Hello all,

 

I am considering the building of a LNER mpd (more likely a section of one) in 4mm, and I was wondering if we might have any track plans? The only parameters are that it has to fit within a 6ft x 2 ft space, and that's pretty optimistic so the smaller the better.

 

I would at least like to include a double row engine and shed and a coaling/water tower, anything else is a bonus really.

 

 

thanks,

 

Douglas

 

Great stuff, yes the NER volume is excellent (see

 

but also "Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds: Volume 3: Yorkshire & Lancashire", by Roger Griffiths & John Hooper.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tractionman

[PaulG]

17 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Hello all,

 

I am considering the building of a LNER mpd (more likely a section of one) in 4mm, and I was wondering if we might have any track plans? The only parameters are that it has to fit within a 6ft x 2 ft space, and that's pretty optimistic so the smaller the better.

 

I would at least like to include a double row engine and shed and a coaling/water tower, anything else is a bonus really.

 

 

thanks,

 

Douglas

 

If interest in East Anglia, the two volumns of Great Eastern Railway Engine Sheds (Hawkins and Reeve) is well illustrated with track plans and photographs

[J. S. Bach]

13 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

I'm more or less looking for somewhere where one would often see V2's, as I've just bought the Bachmann one. ...snip...

Would someone please post a photo of one? TIA The only V2 that I know of may have had a German-sounding name but it surely did NOT run on rails!

[Florence Locomotive Works]

11 minutes ago, J. S. Bach said:

Would someone please post a photo of one? TIA The only V2 that I know of may have had a German-sounding name but it surely did NOT run on rails!

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/Bachmann-35-200-class-v2-no-4791-in-lner-apple-lined-green-livery-locomotive

[J. S. Bach]

4 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/Bachmann-35-200-class-v2-no-4791-in-lner-apple-lined-green-livery-locomotive

Thank you, that is a very nice-looking engine; one would be somewhat tempting in O.

Hmmm, it might even b possible to convert it to a light Hudson or Pacific. More hmmmm.

The 2-6-4 was not used here much if at all but there were a few 2-6-6Ts used in commuter service in the northeast.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by J. S. Bach
To add some information.

[DCB]

4 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Thank you, that is a very nice-looking engine; one would be somewhat tempting in O.

Hmmm, it might even b possible to convert it to a light Hudson or Pacific. More hmmmm.

The 2-6-4 was not used here much if at all but there were a few 2-6-6Ts used in commuter service in the northeast.

 

Very bad idea converting a V2 to a pacific. Edward Thompson tried it converting 4 part built V2s to 4-6-2s and the results weren't great. He also converted 6  X 2-8-2s to 4-6-2s and the results were not great and he designed several other locos which were not great. He did however design the Q1 0-8-0T the best looking shunting engine ever.   The flying V2s were a rare sight and were mainly confined to the London area and Antwerp.  

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 hours ago, DCB said:

and Antwerp. 

duplicate

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[Florence Locomotive Works]

7 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Hmmm, it might even b possible to convert it to a light Hudson or Pacific. More hmmmm.

A rebuilt double chimney V2 is actually quite capable of matching a standard British pacific in power output and i think tractive effort. Even the standard ones were often subbed in on top express out of London and performed some incredible feats of haulage during the war. I think one was once used to pull 31 loaded coaches from Grantham to London. After that and many other feats they got the name "The Engine that Won the War," and rightly so!

Edited March 1, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[dpgibbons]

By all means seek prototypical inspiration, but the constraints of too little space and too many locos leave you limited options.  I'd suggest modelling part of a large shed, incorporating a turntable/coaling stage/ashpit area with a low relief shed concealing a cassette-based fiddle yard.  This maximises operational potential and use of space. See the original iteration of Warley's 82G layout for inspiration.

[DCB]

2 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

A rebuilt double chimney V2 is actually quite capable of matching a standard British pacific in power output and i think tractive effort. Even the standard ones were often subbed in on top express out of London and performed some incredible feats of haulage during the war. I think one was once used to pull 31 loaded coaches from Grantham to London. After that and many other feats they got the name "The Engine that Won the War," and rightly so!

There is no doubt the original V2s were very successful locos, very little if anything inferior to Pacifics pre war   The trouble is with so many built (193?) and all needing careful maintenance impossible under war conditions they rapidly deteriorated.  They could haul prodigious loads with over 60 tons adhesion, but by 1945 they were run down and with self cleaning screens fitted in the smokeboxes post war they were at a low ebb largely replaced by B1s as passenger engines. Things improved when KJ Cook came from Swindon and tuned them up but only the few  Kylchap equipped V2s were star performers, and Diesels had arrived (1957) by the time they were converted.

[Metropolitan H]

17 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Thank you, that is a very nice-looking engine; one would be somewhat tempting in O.

Hmmm, it might even b possible to convert it to a light Hudson or Pacific. More hmmmm.

The 2-6-4 was not used here much if at all but there were a few 2-6-6Ts used in commuter service in the northeast.

 

 

What - like this one? 3-rail, coarse scale) - produced by "Seven Mill Models". There are some still available from relevant retailers in UK.

 

Regards

Chris H

[J. S. Bach]

Mine would have to be two-rail, though.

 

Is that Atlas track?

[Metropolitan H]

1 minute ago, J. S. Bach said:

Mine would have to be two-rail, though.

 

Is that Atlas track?

The loco is switchable from 3 rail to 2 rail, with appropriately insulated wheels, and comes with the relevantly sized strip of plastic to raise the 3 rail pick-ups clear of the rails. The mechanism is by ETS assembled into the cast pewter (heavy) body by DJH. It runs smoothly and quietly while being a grand hauler - but I haven't enough relevant stock to run one of the very heavy trains that won the V2s the soubriquet "The locos that won the war".

 

Yes the track is Atlas 3 rail with O-54 (27 inch radius) curves and turnouts. The underlay is carpet tiles which keeps noise levels reasonable and helps the smooth running.

 

You might realise that I am rather a fan of V2s. I have a few of my late Father's photographs from Peterborough North station showing the brand new locos in the late 1930s - about the time his Father (my Grandfather) got promotion from Peterborough North Box to Crescent Box - like this:

 

 

 

Hope you like - although you might have seen them before somewhere on here.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

 

 

[Keith Turbutt]

Hi Douglas

 

This thread has been quiet for a few days maybe  because it went slightly of topic by going into the undisputed merits of the LNER V2s.

 

The original query was to find a suitable LNER engine shed for a limited space model but preferably with an allocation of V2s - or perhaps the possibility of a visiting loco. After all, Derby didn't have a V2 allocation but they could be seen there.

 

For a quick overview of suitable depots I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the BR Steam Motive Power Depots series by Paul Bolger, published by Ian Allan in 1982 - crikey was it that long ago! This was a series of volumes each dealing with a different region of BR. The relevant volumes would be Eastern, NER and ScR.

 

Each volume covers all depots in its region showing a sketch of the track plan, a couple of photos, and a selection of dates in the 50s and 60s  showing loco allocations. I think this would be a good way to commence research for a suitable model.

 

A quick check on Ebay suggests copies are available and not at extortionate prices.

 

I hope you find this suggestion helpful.

 

Keith

 

  

[DCB]

I found the Paul Bolger book BR Steam Motive Power Depots  North Eastern Region,  I didn't realise I had it. small sheds with V2 are a bit like hens teeth but the Tweedmouth  (Berwick on Tweed?)  4 road Straight shed looks like a real possibility. Half a dozen V2s  in 1959.  Looks like the smaller locos used a roundhouse  which can be modelled by a blank wall with a hole in it, and the bigger ones the straight shed.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

23 hours ago, DCB said:

I found the Paul Bolger book BR Steam Motive Power Depots  North Eastern Region,  I didn't realise I had it. small sheds with V2 are a bit like hens teeth but the Tweedmouth  (Berwick on Tweed?)  4 road Straight shed looks like a real possibility. Half a dozen V2s  in 1959.  Looks like the smaller locos used a roundhouse  which can be modelled by a blank wall with a hole in it, and the bigger ones the straight shed.

That looks to be the one!

[Flying Pig]

Here's the Shed Bash UK entry for Tweedmouth: 

 

https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2014/02/tweedmouth-1945-1963.html

[Ken.W]

Not mentioned so far for ex NER shed diagrams are these, also published by NERA.

Vol 1 covers the Southern Area, up to Darlington and Tees area, and vol. 2 the northern area.

Drawings are A4, or for larger ones fold-out A3 in size, and produced from LNER made originals.

 

 

(Don't know why they've come out as blue, covers are actually green)

 

As many NER sheds had 'square' roundhouses, often with multiple turntables, the ideas above of a low relief shed across one end  onto a cassette fiddle yard would work well here.

The OP mentioned a wish to include a 2 road shed and some, like Tweedmouth already mentioned also had a straight shed accommodating locos too large for the older roundhouse turntables. This was notably the case at Gateshead which had a straight 3 road shed actually known as the Pacific Shed as the largest of the roundhouse 'tables were 60 ft. So, a low relief roundhouse could be made with cassettes just long enough for a medium size loco. Another space saving idea from here was that, due to the proximity of triangular junctions to the depot a larger external turntable wasn't needed either.

 

A possible issue of lack RTR of NER loco types has been mentioned, the J27 and Q6 are now available, between them the last pre-group locos on BR, as well as the J72. Most main types are avaible as kits though, especially from the excellent NorthEasternKits from ArthurK in the 'Small Suppliers' section on here, very highly recommended.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Ken.W