New Credit Card protocols online

[Metr0Land]

I used to live in a not-spot but now it's become a not-very-reliable-spot.  Now that banks/credit cards etc are asking for a mobile phone number in order to send you a PIN, I simply put in my landline number and BT translates it to text.  Originally Paypal wouldn't take a landline number but they relented and noe use my landline. I don't recall any other org rejecting landline number.

[CUCKOO LINE]

System is definitely live ! Just had the hassle for a £30 on line order to someone I,ve used before !!!

[AndrueC]

On 04/03/2022 at 16:18, Andy Hayter said:

Our UK banks want to send us an SMS with the codes, which would be fine except that we live in a not-spot and and would have to drive 5km to get a reliable signal.  I have written to the bank to explain and the silence has been deafening.

Your bank should not be using SMS for that because it's not secure. They should be using an authentication app (and there several of those to choose from, they don't even need to write their own). Then all you need is wifi and a smartphone.

 

It is a bit tedious though since I keep my phone in my bedroom and have to go and get it. Hopefully retailers can establish trust relationships with our devices so that we don't get bothered as much if we're obviously a repeat customer.

Edited March 14, 2022 by AndrueC

[CUCKOO LINE]

36 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Your bank should not be using SMS for that because it's not secure. They should be using an authentication app (and there several of those to choose from, they don't even need to write their own). Then all you need is wifi and a smartphone.

 

It is a bit tedious though since I keep my phone in my bedroom and have to go and get it. Hopefully retailers can establish trust relationships with our devices so that we don't get bothered as much if we're obviously a repeat customer.

In my experience many organisations use SMS to authenticate access to systems, all they do is send a code you have to type in 9n your screen and it has a limited time validity. I think the authentication I had to do today had around 4 options including SMS, back app, phone call, can,t reader what else. Used the bank app which involved some longish numbers to type in to app and then back into the payment transaction, took a minute or two to do !!!

[RedgateModels]

I made a payment over the weekend and had to enter digits from my new 5 digit number that Creation (credit card) said I needed to set up they then texted me another code to enter as well - blimey!

[friscopete]

I use my old iPhone as wifi only, no sim used .Works  a treat as long as you have broadband.

[Butler Henderson]

BT customers get free wifi access anywhere they are in range of a BT router including domestic household ones (unless the householder has switched off the default function).  New fridge freezer purchase last night, an upgrade rather than a urgent purchase,  required mobile app confirmation.

[melmerby]

I get SMS passcodes via my landline phone and have been for some services for years.

Make a purchase online on PC - authentication required so code sent - phone rings and the number I receive I enter into the box on the screen.

There's a phone right next to the screen so I don't even need to get out of my seat.

 

The number can only be used once and if for any reason the purchase didn't finalise (happens rarely) a second attempt will be sent a different number.

[Michael Hodgson]

Security?  Artificial Intelligence?

 

I really can't see why Tesco Bank think they need me to confirm it's really me when I'm placing my regular weekly grocery order from my local Tesco to my home address on the same day of the week as usual.

 

Now if I were ordering a delivery of manure to Downing Street, they might have more reason to be suspicious.

[BroadLeaves]

On 14/03/2022 at 15:18, AndrueC said:

Your bank should not be using SMS for that because it's not secure. They should be using an authentication app (and there several of those to choose from, they don't even need to write their own). Then all you need is wifi and a smartphone.

This is about balancing reach and security. Not everyone who uses a credit card has a smartphone, and even those that do have one may not have the technical nous to install it.

Go to "Google Play" and install an "app"? To some people, that's just a bunch of technical mumbo-jumbo. Even those who are on the more technical side don't necessarily have smart phones. For a living, I write back-end C++ for a cloud services provider and I don't have a smart phone. Not because I couldn't work one, but because I think the Apple walled garden is too restrictive and I understand how insecure and privacy-violating Android is.

Any card provider who requires their customer to have a smartphone is going to lose a lot of business.

[Metr0Land]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Security?  Artificial Intelligence?

 

I really can't see why Tesco Bank think they need me to confirm it's really me when I'm placing my regular weekly grocery order from my local Tesco to my home address on the same day of the week as usual.

 

 

 

My friend has also been having problems with Tesco order (although she banks with Barclays).  After repeated calls to the bank they keep connfirming they (the bank) knows who she is etc and are satisfied she is indeed she, but they say the problem lies with Visa.  There doesn't seem to be any way for the bank to satisfy Visa that this is ok on a regular basis, and there's no way for the customer to contact Visa directly without the bank doing it on her behalf.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Dont worry,the goverments got it sorted,once your energy bill is paid your account will be cleared out into there mates accounts so nothing for one to spend on line ,on the plus side you can switch off the freezer as the house will be below zero to start with.

[AndrueC]

4 hours ago, BroadLeaves said:

Any card provider who requires their customer to have a smartphone is going to lose a lot of business.

I doubt it. They'll lose a bit of business but I reckon those who don't have smartphones don't make much money for them anyway. As time goes on people who don't have a smartphone will cease to be of interest to card providers. And to banks.

 

The cost of fraud and having to use old-style communication systems will mean the banks and card issuers will probably be glad to be shot of them. It'll be like people who still insist on paying by cheque. Nothing but a costly nuisance to everyone else.

Edited April 3, 2022 by AndrueC

[chris p bacon]

56 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

The cost of fraud and having to use old-style communication systems will mean the banks and card issuers will probably be glad to be shot of them. It'll be like people who still insist on paying by cheque. Nothing but a costly nuisance to everyone else.

 

In reply to the bold. There speaks someone with no knowledge of what it's like to be without the same bank access in this country that others "enjoy"  

 

As a membership sec for a line society I still receive 50% of subs payments in cheque, and even postal order form. (We offer card payments but not all are able to pay with one) as so many don't have access to full banking services.

[melmerby]

I have a smartphone but I don't use it for banking and don't want too, yet I do a fair bit of card business, rarely less than £1000/month, often more.

I hardly use cash these days, 99% of puchases are by card or online banking. The only cheque I use in a 12 month period is the guide & tickets for the Warley show where that's all they take.

Faffing around with a small display and "touch" keypad just isn't for me, too easy to type the wrong character.

I also like to see what I am doing so when I purchase something there is a nice clear large picture to look at and check that it is what I want, a smartphone is just the opposite of that.

I have used a smartphone to search for something but I am back to the PC for the ordering.

[Michael Hodgson]

I watch these kids swiping away at their mobiles very efficientlly, but mobile phone apps are a pain to use if you've got arthritis or poor eyesight or co-ordination.  Give me a proper keyboard with finger sized buttons every time.

I;m surprised the disability lobby hasn't made more of an issue of the "security enhancements".

[Andy Hayter]

2 hours ago, AndrueC said:

I doubt it. They'll lose a bit of business but I reckon those who don't have smartphones don't make much money for them anyway. As time goes on people who don't have a smartphone will cease to be of interest to card providers. And to banks.

 

The cost of fraud and having to use old-style communication systems will mean the banks and card issuers will probably be glad to be shot of them. It'll be like people who still insist on paying by cheque. Nothing but a costly nuisance to everyone else.

 

Oh you poor, poor deluded boy.

 

I assume you are too young to remember the News of the World.  A newspaper (I use the term in its loosest definition) that essentially went out of business after hacking mobile accounts - and that was in the 90s and noughties.   An SMS is as secure as a chocolate prison door.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Andy Hayter

[Andymsa]

2 hours ago, AndrueC said:

I doubt it. They'll lose a bit of business but I reckon those who don't have smartphones don't make much money for them anyway. As time goes on people who don't have a smartphone will cease to be of interest to card providers. And to banks.

 

The cost of fraud and having to use old-style communication systems will mean the banks and card issuers will probably be glad to be shot of them. It'll be like people who still insist on paying by cheque. Nothing but a costly nuisance to everyone else.

although a bit off topic, the issue of certain elements who don’t have access to smart phones or online capabilities, or even wish to embrace them is something I have recently  observed in the many bank branches I went to whilst sorting out my late mothers estate. The one thing I noticed was the reduced amount of staff in these banks and even one where every transaction is done via a machine. Unfortunately it’s becoming a accepted norm that you have a smart phone and internet access, all these security steps are not for our good but to reduce a banks liability to fraud. Regardless of these security steps the more unsavoury criminal elements will always find ways around the steps taken, which has been the case since cash was invented. So although I don’t have issues with the security steps I do find it a pain at times, just the other day I wanted to buy an online item and had to get my phone for the one time code. And on the other side I had online fraud occur to my bank account, the strange thing the bank allowed the payment even without the cvv number so any security is only as good as the banks using it, and yes I got my money back.

[AndrueC]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

In reply to the bold. There speaks someone with no knowledge of what it's like to be without the same bank access in this country that others "enjoy"  

And there speaks someone who has failed to understand what I posted. I realise there are reasons why some people still use cheques and (for some) that's sad but the fact remains that for the rest of society those people are a nuisance and they make the modern financial system less efficient.

 

Get off your high horse for a minute and try and understand what I'm saying. People who use cheques (and soon people who don't have a smartphone) are a nuisance and they are both going to be gradually squeezed out of the mainstream financial system. It's already a problem with cheques and it's going to go the same way with smartphone ownership. That is very unfortunate for those left behind and it's a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

Whining about how/why you can't participate in the modern financial system is not the answer. That's the equivalent of complaining about the incoming tide. That is the point I'm trying to make. If you don't have access to modern banking facilities then I'm sorry for you but you're going to have to figure it out. The alternative is..well..you're screwed.

Edited April 3, 2022 by AndrueC

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Oh you poor, poor deluded boy.

 

I assume you are too young to remember the News of the World.  A newspaper (I use the term in its loosest definition) that essentially went out of business after hacking mobile accounts - and that was in the 90s and noughties.   An SMS is as secure as a chocolate prison door.

What? The post you're replying to makes no mention of SMS. However in an earlier post I wrote:

 

"Your bank should not be using SMS for that because it's not secure. They should be using an authentication app (and there several of those to choose from, they don't even need to write their own). Then all you need is wifi and a smartphone."

 

So why the condescending attitude?

Edited April 3, 2022 by AndrueC

[GWR-fan]

Due me being "between houses" with no delivery address I have been adding items to my Hattons trunk service.  A change that I notice is that the trunk only accepts credit card payments and when activated there is an automatic verification process with my card provider (no SMS or code sent) and a transaction fee applied to my card.  When I used the delivery method there was no fee on the card and no authentication process (perhaps this has now changed).

[40F]

You can always specify your landline number to receive the authorisation codes. I also receive a large number of cheques for membership renewals and I certainly think that a number of people will NOT bother to renew subs etc if they can only do it on line. Having been in business and seen what credit card companies can charge I always try and use cash on small purchases.

In fifty years time when most of us are long gone cash may be a thing of the past.

[icn]

On 03/04/2022 at 19:12, chris p bacon said:

 

In reply to the bold. There speaks someone with no knowledge of what it's like to be without the same bank access in this country that others "enjoy"  

 

As a membership sec for a line society I still receive 50% of subs payments in cheque, and even postal order form. (We offer card payments but not all are able to pay with one) as so many don't have access to full banking services.

But you see: I face the opposite problem. I have no access to cheques because I don't live in the UK, but some cottage businesses in the UK take nothing but cheque.

 

In fact I don't even understand your claims about "full banking services" because cheques are actually more restrictive than card payments - all bank accounts at least get a debit card which can typically be used online or over the phone. However to obtain a chequebook you need a fully functional current account (which involves a credit check of course). People who fail the credit check can't get such an account - and another issue is that to open a current account you also need to have been resident in the UK for the past 3 years. If you fail either of those requirements, your only option is a basic bank account... which doesn't offer a chequebook, but does include a debit card.

 

(Yes, I was hit by exactly that residency issue when I temporarily moved back to the UK.)

 

Postal orders of course are a different story, they're available to everyone in the UK -and you don't even need a bank account. But... they're still not available to those overseas (or at least I haven't found a way of ordering and paying for a postal order online).

Edited April 9, 2022 by icn

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, icn said:

But you see: I face the opposite problem. I have no access to cheques because I don't live in the UK, but some cottage businesses in the UK take nothing but cheque.

 

In fact I don't even understand your claims about "full banking services" because cheques are actually more restrictive than card payments - all bank accounts at least get a debit card which can typically be used online or over the phone. However to obtain a chequebook you need a fully functional current account (which involves a credit check of course). People who fail the credit check can't get such an account - and another issue is that to open a current account you also need to have been resident in the UK for the past 3 years. If you fail either of those requirements, your only option is a basic bank account... which doesn't offer a chequebook, but does include a debit card.

 

(Yes, I was hit by exactly that residency issue when I temporarily moved back to the UK.)

 

Postal orders of course are a different story, they're available to everyone in the UK -and you don't even need a bank account. But... they're still not available to those overseas (or at least I haven't found a way of ordering and paying for a postal order online).

 

With respect to you, the issues I was commenting on are specific to some people in UK society that cannot access some banking services, rather than someone who resides in a different country. I had similar experiences to yourself (but in the opposite direction) when my father resided in the USA, and since then money laundering rules have made things even more difficult.