O Gauge LMS & GWR Vans

[Adrian Stevenson]

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/Three-New-O-Gauge-Vans-Announced At-The-Guild O-Gauge-2022-Kettering-Show

[brossard]

Dapol are a bit late for me.  I already built the Parkside kits.

 

John

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, brossard said:

Dapol are a bit late for me.  I already built the Parkside kits.

 

John

Agreed. There must be plenty of new prototypes they could consider that aren't already addressed by the well-established kits.

In that respect, the anchor-mounted tanks (which hopefully will be with us soon) were an excellent choice.

Mol

[Hal Nail]

I thought the GWR types were inevitable once they did a GWR underframe for the conflat rather than use their existing BR design and I had said elsewhere an LMS 10ft wheelbase underframe would open up a number of types using a shared wheelbase tooling.

 

What is slightly strange though, is these new vans seem to have reverted to the BR type W irons rather than the more open GWR ones they just did on the conflat - are they just new bodies mounted on the existing BR underframe? I've e mailed Dapol in case this can be corrected.

 

With so many being drawn to 7mm, largely thanks to r-t-r, all the popular selling prototypes will be replicated and those of us who like building kits might be wise to stock up as they may not remain viable: they have already jumped up disproportionately over the last few years.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Sitham Yard]

I spoke today to Richard Webster at the London Festival of Railway Modelling at Alexandra Palace. He confirmed that the new vans will be on the BR underframe as this was the only existing underframe suitable.  We will just have to fret out the axleguards to be accurate although I think some may have received BR axleguards late in their lives.

Andrew

Edited March 20, 2022 by Sitham Yard

[jcm@gwr]

It would have been interesting to hear what his answer might have been to the question, "Why did you choose wagons that are already covered by kits, instead of ones that aren't available, but we're numerous, and wanted by modellers?"

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:

the new vans will be on the BR underframe as this was the only existing underframe suitable.

Makes the decision to tool the GWR conflat and chassis rather than just a new body for their BR underframe a bit strange then!

 

11 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:

It would have been interesting to hear what his answer might have been to the question, "Why did you choose wagons that are already covered by kits, instead of ones that aren't available, but we're numerous, and wanted by modellers?"

Such as? Genuinely interested as have thought about it a lot. I think 21 and 24 ton minerals could sell well and use a common chassis but I can't think of many other things I'd risk my money producing (if I had any).

 

I'm sure Dapol have simply chosen the obvious wagons most likely to sell well (the same reason they were chosen for the kits originally) and I think Dapol have been very clever in most of their choices personally. Since tooling costs are high, you need to shift a lot to make it worthwhile: I recall Minerva saying even a GWR toad was too risky for them to do.

 

Its clear from plenty of threads on here that many 7mm modellers now haven't attempted a kit - so although there may be new people drawn to the hobby, it's a different market and the same protoypes appealling as before.

 

I'm not happy about this - I'm just suggesting there is arguably a sound economic reason for duplication happening in this case.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Mol_PMB]

Dapol have picked some excellent wagon prototypes. Tank wagon kits have always been rather difficult or unsatisfactory, so the Air Ministry tanks and the anchor mounted tanks, as well as the milk tanks, were really good selections.

Basic open wagons and vans, the Slaters, Peco and Parkside kits are all pretty good and straightforward, and I've built quite a mix of them. Even so, I've bought a few Dapol 16t mineral wagons and a Lionheart RCH mineral as they're a quick win with some weathering.

But in general, O gauge is about detail and accuracy, so an RTR model that is on the wrong chassis (competing with a correct kit) is likely to sell less well.

[Hal Nail]

7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

is likely to sell less well.

True to some extent but on the other hand Dapol are getting 3 popular vans for the cost of tooling just the bodies. To be honest the issues in the chassis are pretty minor compared to the generic milk tanks and they seem to sell endlessly so I'm not sure I can really argue against it even if I don't like it.

 

I don't think 7mm is about detail a accuracy anymore (perhaps what the late Adrian Swain rallied against). The majority now are r-t-r fans who have moved up. As you have said, Dapol have probably done the most to create and then fuel that demand.

 

[Sitham Yard]

The LMS van should sell well as the Parkside kits are for earlier 9ft wheelbase vans.

Andrew 

[djparkins]

On 21/03/2022 at 06:54, Hal Nail said:

True to some extent but on the other hand Dapol are getting 3 popular vans for the cost of tooling just the bodies. To be honest the issues in the chassis are pretty minor compared to the generic milk tanks and they seem to sell endlessly so I'm not sure I can really argue against it even if I don't like it.

 

I don't think 7mm is about detail a accuracy anymore (perhaps what the late Adrian Swain rallied against). The majority now are r-t-r fans who have moved up. As you have said, Dapol have probably done the most to create and then fuel that demand.

 

 

I agree.

 

Having to spend a fair bit of time lately ploughing through Adrian's research material that came with his 7mm wagon range, I keep coming across various drafts of letters to Dapol!  How many of these he actually sent I do not know - but I am totally sure that [had he still been with us] these upcoming vans, and the recent conflats from Dapol, would have kept him in a state of hightened anxiety for years to come!

 

I'll comment no further as to whether the changes we are seeing in the hobby are for the better. But with Adrian, everyone must surely agree that he, at least, left us in no doubt whatsoever of his own views!

 

David Parkins

Modern Motive Power/43-two-1 Wagons

www.djparkins.com

Edited April 1, 2022 by djparkins

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, djparkins said:

 

I agree.

 

Having to spend a fair bit of time lately ploughing through Adrian's research material that came with his 7mm wagon range, I keep coming across various drafts of letters to Dapol!  How many of these he actually sent I do not know - but I am totally sure that [had he still been with us] these upcoming vans, and the recent conflats from Dapol, would have kept him in a state of hightened anxiety for years to come!

 

I'll comment no further as whether the changes we are seeing in the hobby are for the better. But with Adrian, everyone must surely agree that he, at least, left us in no doubt whatsoever of his own views!

 

David Parkins

Modern Motive Power/43-two-1 Wagons

www.djparkins.com

He certainly sent some very long emails to me, I have no idea what he thought I could do about the failures of (enter name of manufacturer of the moment here). 

 

I do hope Dapol can be persuaded to do an LMS clasp brake with auxilliary suspension. They already have bodies that could be dropped straight onto it, and it is very noticeably different to others. 

 

What am I overlooking that the Conflat frame isn't more suitable for these models - at least the GWR ones. 

 

Paul

[Hal Nail]

On 31/03/2022 at 19:47, hmrspaul said:

What am I overlooking that the Conflat frame isn't more suitable for these models - at least the GWR ones. 

 

 

I've just got my first conflat (was very cheap as meant to be missing a buffer but in fact it is in the bag along with the chains, which I didn't expect to get at all!)

 

Although the solebars are a separate piece as with most ex Lionheart/Dapol types, part of the chain box is moulded to the solebar, so this would have required a new/altered tool to re use them. Does seem odd - maybe the intention when deciding to tool the GWR chassis was to re use it but someone forgot during design!

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Adrian Stevenson]

A couple of pics taken at Guildex today.

 

Cheers, Ade.

[Kris]

Those look very promising. 

[brossard]

I see what I think are B4's in the bottom of the picture.  These are of interest to me, I have more wagons than I can shake several sticks at.

 

John

 

 

[Adrian Stevenson]

They are John. Sadly did not take a pic of them. Got distracted chatting. 
 

Cheers, Ade.

[brossard]

4 minutes ago, Adrian Stevenson said:

They are John. Sadly did not take a pic of them. Got distracted chatting. 
 

Cheers, Ade.

 

Tsk tsk.  😒

 

John

[Adrian Stevenson]

On display today at Warley 

[Aire Head]

I'm very much looking forward to the LMS vans although I do intend to be swapping them onto a clasp brake chassis which should be fun!

[djparkins]

On 26/11/2022 at 18:13, Adrian Stevenson said:

On display today at Warley

 

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Problem is that these vans are only accurate as depicted for the BR built versions of these vehicles [i. e. construction that continued in most cases after nationalisation, until the BR standard types were introduced]. So in other than BR livery, they represent ficticious wagons, and even then the lettering isn't right.

 

It is such a shame as they do look very good otherwise, but those BR W irons/axleboxes stick out like a sore thumb. I would buy a load myself but it's quite a lot to pay per wagon for something I'd have to either re-chassis or at the very least do a lot of surgery to in order to replace the W irons. They will be great re-lettered for those wishing to have the BR built ones, but just be aware that any  painted and lettered as for pre-nationalisation never existed with those 'undernoothes'!

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, djparkins said:

Problem is that these vans are only accurate as depicted for the BR built versions of these vehicles [i. e. construction that continued in most cases after nationalisation, until the BR standard types were introduced].

 

The BR built example of a GWR van shown in the Rowland book still has the original open W irons so not even sure they are right post BR! There is an LMS style van with the BR style "hole" but it has J hangers and a short LMS brake lever so even less like the BR underframe.

 

I still cant understand why Dapol went to the trouble of tooling the GWR underframe for the conflat, when they could have done a BR type using their existing 10' BR chassis but then having done that, reverted to the BR chassis for these. 

 

In fairness though, there are far worse compromises out there.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Scorpio7uk]

I don't get this - for the GWR vans at least - why produce something that is less accurate than the easy to make kits that are readily available?

 

If you're going to have to hack about with the underframe to make it right, you may as well just make the kit - it'll be easier!

 

I was looking forward to the LMS vans as these aren't available as kits - I think I'm going to have remove the chassis entirely and replace with some etched bits - or see if I can just get the raw bodies from Dapol (unlikely I know).

 

Jeff

[Aire Head]

10 hours ago, Scorpio7uk said:

I don't get this - for the GWR vans at least - why produce something that is less accurate than the easy to make kits that are readily available?

 

If you're going to have to hack about with the underframe to make it right, you may as well just make the kit - it'll be easier!

 

I was looking forward to the LMS vans as these aren't available as kits - I think I'm going to have remove the chassis entirely and replace with some etched bits - or see if I can just get the raw bodies from Dapol (unlikely I know).

 

Jeff

 

The target audience for these is probably people who don't want to kit build and either don't know or don't care about such details.

 

The LMS vans were available from Freightman and crop up quite often on the like ls of eBay and even offer a bit of variety with different ends and sides being available.

 

Here is a couple of mine to show how they scrub up 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Aire Head

[90164]

5 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

The target audience for these is probably people who don't want to kit build and either don't know or don't care about such details.

 

The LMS vans were available from and crop up quite often on the like ls of eBay and even offer a bit of variety with different ends and sides being available.

 

Here is a couple of mine to show how they scrub up 

Are those vans from JLTRT or Freightman?