RMweb Premium njee20 Posted March 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2022 I thought I had a plan… I have an ECoS, I like it. For my forthcoming layout I was planning to use ITrain in conjunction with Digikeijs DR4088s, with DR5088RCs in the fiddle yard, as my stock is virtually all Railcom decoder equipped, and it seemed like the useful place to have that capability. I’ve realised that isn’t going to work, as the DR5088 is Loconet, not S88. I’m not prepared to pay for ESU Railcom detectors, as I’ll want ~40 detection points, and that’ll cost me about £4.8 million. I’m not aware of any other cost effective (I realise that’s subjective) Railcom detectors. I know “Rudy’s Model Railway” made some about 10 years ago on YouTube using Arduinos, which I’m not totally against, but the jury was out on their effectiveness. I could just buy a DR5000, but I actually really like the interface and the tactility of the ECoS for the times when the computer isn’t driving. I don’t really want to drive from my phone/tablet. Is there a way of making these bits play nicely together? I know about the ESU Loconet adapter, but apparently it still won’t let read the Railcom packets via the 5088. If I do get a DR5000, Can I use the ECoS as a slave ‘handset’ to the DR5000 and still use the ECoS to control trains? I realise that’s overkill, but the incremental cost is only the DR5000. FWIW I already have a DR5088 and the ECoS, but any further hardware will need purchasing. ta! Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 55020 Posted March 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2022 I have the same hardware as you describe. I utilise the ECoS to drive the trains and iTrain to basically act as signalman setting routes, displaying block detection and Railcom feedback info. I have no need for a DR5000. iTrain also talks to ECoS and displays the appropriate information. You are correct that the ESU Loconet adapter will not pass on Railcom info to ECoS. ECoS will display basic occupancy info only. Steve 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 55020 Posted March 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) I forgot to mention that you do need on extra piece of hardware, you will need to get a Loconet to USB adapter so that iTrain can use the Loconet (Railcom) information. I use a US product called Locobuffer. I did struggle to get this to work with iTrain, but a change in the iTrain default comms speed for Locobuffer solved this. Steve Edited March 8, 2022 by 55020 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted March 8, 2022 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2022 Interesting! So the DR5088 does work with the ECoS, in conjunction with just the Locobuffer? Or are you using the ESU Loconet adapter and the Locobuffer? A DR5000 would be cheaper than buying the LNet adapter and Locobuffer, so may be a more straightforward approach, perhaps counterintuitively! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted March 9, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2022 12 hours ago, njee20 said: Interesting! So the DR5088 does work with the ECoS, in conjunction with just the Locobuffer? Or are you using the ESU Loconet adapter and the Locobuffer? Neither as I read it. I use Traincontroller not iTrain but they appear to be similar, so if I were doing this in TC the set up would be as follows. Locobuffer USB connected to DR5088s gives train detection occupancy including railcom to the PC/laptop. ECoS connected to laptop gives train control. Accessories (points/signals etc) connected to whichever system you choose. Then in TC (and I assume iTrain is the same) the system (Lnet or ECoS) to which each item is connected is defined. As a separate issue: you mentioned needing 40 detection points and implied they all needed to be railcom. With TC (and again I assume iTrain) you only need railcom where a train (loco) comes into the system, thereafter it is tracked internally. On my TC layout, I don’t have any railcom so I have to manually associate a train with a block (drag and drop on the screen) thereafter TC does it all. All railcom does is saves the manual drag and drop. Thus if you only add/remove trains in your staging yard then railcom would only be needed on those sections (I think!). It feels like your having the difficulties I had trying to look into iTrain/Traincontroller land from the outside before committing to a purchase. I understand your pain! Paul. P.S. If you put a track layout up and say how you envisage operating the layout I’m sure you’ll get advice on what will and won’t work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted March 9, 2022 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2022 I’m after 40 detection zones in the fiddle yard The rest of the layout wouldn’t use Railcom, as you say, the appeal was having it in the place I’m likely to add/remove stock. I actually haven’t planned the fiddle yard yet, so it’s all a bit theoretical. 5x3m N gauge layout though, so reasonably large. What you’ve said about the Locobuffer-computer and ECoS-computer makes sense, thank you. I have built a small test layout to get my head around all of this, as you say; I’m sure a lot of the problems will resolve themselves (or raise themselves!) when I actually just try and make it all work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted March 9, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2022 21 minutes ago, njee20 said: I’m after 40 detection zones in the fiddle yard Oh. :-o Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG 7305 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Have you joined/spoken to MERG? They seem to have very effective answers to most problems of this sort, having very cost effective kits. I joined them to buy their IR detectors with which I am highly satisfied and nowadays work out at less than a fiver per detector. I thoroughly recommend you take a look: https://www.merg.org.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 If you buy one of these then you will have a totally reliable Loconet that is standalone - and cheap 😆 LocoNet standalone USB, LocoNet standalone USB + s88LN, LocoNet standalone USB +RS232c + s88LN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted April 25, 2022 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 25, 2022 8 hours ago, MG 7305 said: Have you joined/spoken to MERG? They seem to have very effective answers to most problems of this sort, having very cost effective kits. I joined them to buy their IR detectors with which I am highly satisfied and nowadays work out at less than a fiver per detector. I thoroughly recommend you take a look: https://www.merg.org.uk/ Yeah I’ve been a member of MERG for a couple of years, and the Automation SIG. I’ve never really found it that helpful. The journal feels like that of an electronics society with a passing interest in trains (which is fine), and the forum appears to be going for the record of most sub-forums ever. There must be getting on for 500! Ive no intention whatsoever of using CBUS or similar, and I’ve no idea if any of their other detection hardware will interface with ‘standard’ protocols, I confess I’ve not looked. It hadn’t really occurred to me to seek their advice when I’m not using any of their products. 9 hours ago, WIMorrison said: If you buy one of these then you will have a totally reliable Loconet that is standalone - and cheap 😆 LocoNet standalone USB, LocoNet standalone USB + s88LN, LocoNet standalone USB +RS232c + s88LN Why the laughing emoji, That looks like quite a handy box? Presumably the S88 version would interface with the ECoS, although I presume it would be like the ESU Loconet adapter insofar as it still wouldn’t give ‘full’ Railcom functionality. Alternatively the basic one would interface directly with itrain, alongside the ECoS. For €50 that looks good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Quote Why the laughing emoji, That looks like quite a handy box? Presumably the S88 version would interface with the ECoS, although I presume it would be like the ESU Loconet adapter insofar as it still wouldn’t give ‘full’ Railcom functionality. Alternatively the basic one would interface directly with itrain, alongside the ECoS. For €50 that looks good. All the versions are USB connected to the PC operating the software being used as the unit is providing a standalone protocol bus that is independent of any command station. You cannot have 2 devices 'mastering' the bus e.g. an ECoS and this unit. I use it to provide me with an independent Loconet and I get my Railcom information back into iTrain using the LNet version. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: All the versions are USB connected to the PC operating the software being used as the unit is providing a standalone protocol bus that is independent of any command station. You cannot have 2 devices 'mastering' the bus e.g. an ECoS and this unit. I use it to provide me with an independent Loconet and I get my Railcom information back into iTrain using the LNet version. So is this an update to your 'standard' recommendation for a fully automatic train operating system? How does the Loconet unit fit into the original scheme with Z21, full detection with Railcom, and iTrain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Simply use this Loconet connected to computer rather than Loconet through Z21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 So is that just an option, a choice, or something that has benefits through more reliable performance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 It is an option that you have, and a choice that I made for more reliable performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted April 25, 2022 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 25, 2022 Because the Z21 Loconet connectivity is poor...? Pretty moot as I don't have a Z21, but genuinely wondering what the performance increases are? And does the Z21 still get any occupancy data doing that, or not? Presumably it needs Itrain running as an interface between the two, otherwise you're not getting any power on the Loconet bus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 More reliable performance does not mean that there has to be any performance increase, and as this is a standalone Loconet the power is available from the Rosoft unit to power Loconet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 25/04/2022 at 10:03, WIMorrison said: If you buy one of these then you will have a totally reliable Loconet that is standalone - and cheap 😆 LocoNet standalone USB, LocoNet standalone USB + s88LN, LocoNet standalone USB +RS232c + s88LN Rosoft appear to have stopped trading Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Yes, another company that suffered partly from Covid, but also from not owning the designs for the equipment it was manufacturing and selling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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