rapidoandy Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 ‘Standardisation’ is a word often used in association with the Great Western Railway but it didn’t just apply to locomotives: the GWR used the same underframe from its ‘Iron Mink’ van under a new open wagon too. So having announced the ‘Iron Mink’, we thought it rude not to produce what became the Diagram O21 open wagon too. The GWR’s open wagons evolved from simple, archaic one-plankers to this more contemporary looking four-plank design in just 16 years. The number of body planks increased, buffers replaced wooden dumb buffers and, in 1886, the steel underframes from the new ‘Iron Mink’ was also used under a new four-plank, 10 ton capacity body. The GWR built thousands and thousands of four-planks with either single-sided lever brakes or DCI brakes (with minor detail differences) until a fifth plank was added to the design in 1902. In 1927, the Board or Trade ‘Either Side’ brake regulations came into force and resulted in over 18,700 single-sided four-plankers being given an additional lever brake and shoe. These wagons finally appeared in the diagram book as Dia. O21. Despite being built in huge numbers, these wagons remained in the shadows for all their lives. They kept the railway moving but never grabbed the headlines and it’s difficult to track when they finally disappeared from the network. If it were not for the GWR 813 Preservation Fund, it’s likely that the Dia. O21 would have slipped unnoticed into history. It managed to acquire the final three survivors (Nos. 41277, 52137 and 52243) but only No. 41277 is anything more than a rusting underframe. This vehicle was saved from Sharpness Docks in 1984 where it had apparently lain since being withdrawn in the 1930s. Restored in the 1980s, it’s based at the Severn Valley Railway where it requires a full overhaul to bring it back to its former glory. These are available to order now (RRP £32.95) and are available to pre-order from any Official Retailer or direct from ourselves. The orderbook will close on the 1st May with delivery scheduled for later this year. 17 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I am disproportionately delighted about the announcement of these! Though, how many do I need (the wallet has run away!)? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Don't tell the wallet - but you'll need even more of the five-plankers .................. whenever Rapido get round to them ! 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 31, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said: Don't tell the wallet - but you'll need even more of the five-plankers .................. whenever Rapido get round to them ! there were over 24,000 4-plankers built; where there as many 5-plankers of any single design built? Anyway, how many of each one needs depends on one's modelling date! Mildly disappointed that Rapido have not come down in favour of pre-1904 red, unlike Rails. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) Loads of different Diagrams of "five plank" wagons though. There was really only these and the "undiagrammed" DC braked version with four planks like Cooper Craft did. So you probably don't need as many as time goes on. I believe the extra brake gear came from scrapped vehicles so they were probably withdrawing two to make one. Most of these were gone by the late 1930s or were used for waste, spent ballast and manure until time for scrapping. Good photo and drawing of one somewhere in BR days with MANURE WAGON written on it, might have been in Model Railways, mid 1970s. A quick Google suggests MR February 1977. https://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/model-railways-magazine-february-1977-issue.html Jason Edited March 31, 2022 by Steamport Southport 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Nice pic of a prototype. I've just built the WEP kit of one of these in 7mm and I wonder how representative that photo is of how they weathered in service. The grey is certainly a good few shades lighter than original and appears to be flaking back to bare wood rather than an undercoat. The mould is probably due to the wagon being out of service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Harbour Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Got a couple of these pre-ordered already... My Hatton's trunk looks like it will overflow if everything arrives at once... I'll probably need a TARDIS to store it all! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 1, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2022 8 hours ago, dpgibbons said: I wonder how representative that photo is of how they weathered in service. The grey is certainly a good few shades lighter than original and appears to be flaking back to bare wood rather than an undercoat. The mould is probably due to the wagon being out of service. There's a vast difference in paint technology between when that wagon was built - or last repainted by the Great Western - and when the preservationists gave it a once-over. The lead-based paint that would have been used a century and more ago is moisture-repellent, so was applied as much to preserve the wood from rot and the metalwork from rust. Where the lead compound was white lead (i.e. any grey) the effect of reaction with hydrogen sulphide - present as an atmospheric pollution in the coal-burning age - was to darken the paint, lead sulphide being black. On the other hand, if the model being offered is intended as a model of a preserved wagon, that photo is a good guide! 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 As built, the diverse range of 4-plankers that lead to the conglomeration of O21 did not have the triangular gusset between the lower lip of the solebar and the headstock: https://www.svrwiki.com/mediawiki-1.28.2/images/9/97/GWR_41277_20160319.jpg Some of these wagons possibly acquired the gusset later on in life. I think the gusset first made an appearance on the O4. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 The CO branding in a circle on the 925007 running number model isn't something I recall seeing before. What does this mean? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 I just made my largest splurge on RTR that I have ever done. After build 8 of the Coopercraft 4 plank wagons using only the sides and ends and a lot of other parts from other sources and having to face up to another dozen kits I have just ordered 11 of the open wagons and 4 Iron Minks. A selection of wagons from Oxford and Rapido are certainly helping me expand my pre- grouping wagon fleet. Well done and I hope there are more pre-grouping wagons to follow. An 09 or 014 5 plank wagon for us GWR types and then perhaps an LNWR open wagon - a Diagram 84 perhaps? Regards, Craig W 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, The Great Bear said: The CO branding in a circle on the 925007 running number model isn't something I recall seeing before. What does this mean? I think this has been discussed before - was it something to do with Sharpness Docks? @wagonman will know Edited April 2, 2022 by Miss Prism 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2022 23 hours ago, Miss Prism said: As built, the diverse range of 4-plankers that lead to the conglomeration of O21 did not have the triangular gusset between the lower lip of the solebar and the headstock: https://www.svrwiki.com/mediawiki-1.28.2/images/9/97/GWR_41277_20160319.jpg Some of these wagons possibly acquired the gusset later on in life. I think the gusset first made an appearance on the O4. It's visibly absent in the OP prototype pic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 17 hours ago, The Great Bear said: The CO branding in a circle on the 925007 running number model isn't something I recall seeing before. What does this mean? CO was GWR (and BR(W) way of indicating a wagon was for use of engineers on "Construction" projects - in otherwords, many departmental uses. Very common well into late BR days on MERMAID, the various all steel ballast opens eg etc. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrlingzco/e27503c58 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrstarfish/e2550f23f Paul 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2022 (edited) On 02/04/2022 at 09:09, Craigw said: I just made my largest splurge on RTR that I have ever done. After build 8 of the Coopercraft 4 plank wagons using only the sides and ends and a lot of other parts from other sources and having to face up to another dozen kits I have just ordered 11 of the open wagons and 4 Iron Minks. A selection of wagons from Oxford and Rapido are certainly helping me expand my pre- grouping wagon fleet. Well done and I hope there are more pre-grouping wagons to follow. An 09 or 014 5 plank wagon for us GWR types and then perhaps an LNWR open wagon - a Diagram 84 perhaps? Regards, Craig W I look forwarding to seeing those 19 four-plankers in one train, Craig - should be quite a sight, if that's the plan. And I can see your point: I like building wagon kits, but as you know all too well the Coopercraft kit had various issues in the construction. Also, who says the RTR versions can't be modified for variety, as per the kits. Edited February 17, 2023 by Mikkel Pic reinstated 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mikkel said: Also, who says the RTR versions can't be modified for variety, as per the kits. ... and even painted red! Cast plates, though. That's the problem. I look out for Coopercraft O5s on Ebay now chiefly for the plates, for use on O4s etc - another 4-plank is just a bonus! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: I look out for Coopercraft O5s on Ebay now chiefly for the plates Try persuading Mike Clark to resurrect the Masokits plate etches?? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: Try persuading Mike Clark to resurrect the Masokits plate etches?? Did he do plates with separate numbers so you could solder up your bespoke number? The Coopercraft moulding has three numberplates: 781 1460 10070 From which I worked out the following possible permutations giving numbers of wagons that plausibly had cast plates: 10670 O- Lot 345 11070 V6 Lot 207 11401 V5 Lot 411 71460 O- Lot 220 74670 O- Lot 321 74810 O2 Lot 486 76001 O4 Lot 414 76070 O4 Lot 414 76081 O4 Lot 414 76146 O4 Lot 415 76460 O4 Lot 426 78460 O2 Lot 522 Ones I've done are in bold. That used four sets of plates. (A wagon sheet covers up the place where the GWR plate would be on one side, on a couple of wagons.) 11070 was made from 10070 by carving off the first 0 and replacing it with a sliver of plasticard; the second half of 76001 uses the first half of 10070 rotated through 180 degrees! Edited April 2, 2022 by Compound2632 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Did he do plates with separate numbers so you could solder up your bespoke number? No. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2022 Are there any technical drawings for these cast plates? I guess the relief of the lettering was so small as to be almost invisible at 4mm scale. If that's the case then it might be not worth trying to 3D print them and even when etched it might be difficult to accurately pick out the numbers and letters with paint. So, I'm wondering if they could simply be printed (do I need to say "2D printed" these days?) on stiff card/photo paper. I've had good results with modelling the similar cast iron signal box nameplates in this way because most people's home printers are very dimensionally accurate and can reproduce details at quite high resolution. E.g. That's a cruel close-up picture - at normal viewing distance it looks very sharp. It's 3mm high (scale 8 & 7/8th inches) and the lettering is 1.3mm high (scale 4in). 3D details like the fixing bolts are suggested by the graphics. The advantage would be you could have any number you want and there would be no need to cannibalise or cut-and-shut anything and no need to paint the details. Just print it, cut it, paint the exposed edges and glue in place. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Harlequin said: I guess the relief of the lettering was so small as to be almost invisible at 4mm scale. If that's the case then it might be not worth trying to 3D print them and even when etched it might be difficult to accurately pick out the numbers and letters with paint. So, I'm wondering if they could simply be printed (do I need to say "2D printed" these days?) on stiff card/photo paper. That method was my first attempt: ... I wasn't so happy with the colour-matching. But the relief of the lettering is evident on the prototype: Besides, working out the possible numbers with the Coopercraft plates and splicing them up is fun and gives a sense of achievement, which is surely why we do model railways? If I could just buy a 4-plank wagon off the shelf, where would be the fun in that? Oh. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 I’d be confident SLA 3D would work in 7mm, and it should surely be worth a try in 4mm might not be fun, though… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 I think the plates were 0.5" thick. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 2, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: I think the plates were 0.5" thick. Looking at the photo I posted, that seems about right, if the corner plates were ¼" thick plate and the diagonal straps ⅜". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 Yep. The plates could be 5/8", but I don't think we're fussed about an eighth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now