Hornby Tier System- An Update.

[Covkid]

52 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

Tier 1 retailers can place orders with Hornby at announcement and (in theory) should get what they order.

 

Tier 2 retailers can place orders after the Tier 1 retailers.

 

Tier 3 retailers can place orders with Hornby for models when they arrive at the Hornby warehouse, assuming they haven't sold out to tier 1 & 2 retailers.

Have you missed one Paul ?

Tier 4 Retailers who CBA to deal with Hornby and work with other manufacturers instead ?

 

I have just under a dozen Hornby locos but very much doubt I will buy more, unless they produce something I particular want like

 

Midland 2F  0-6-0

LNWR 1P 2-4-2T

LMS / BR jackshaft (12003-12033) 

LNWR "Cauliflower NWR 19" Goods 4-6-0

LNWR 0-8-2T

BR class 100 DMU

BR class 103 DMU

BR class 120 DMU

 

Not much chance of any of those because they weren't named !!!

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Covkid

[Steamport Southport]

20 hours ago, Covkid said:

Have you missed one Paul ?

Tier 4 Retailers who CBA to deal with Hornby and work with other manufacturers instead ?

 

I have just under a dozen Hornby locos but very much doubt I will buy more, unless they produce something I particular want like

 

Midland 2F  0-6-0

LNWR 1P 2-4-2T

LMS / BR jackshaft (12003-12033) 

LNWR "Cauliflower NWR 19" Goods 4-6-0

LNWR 0-8-2T

BR class 100 DMU

BR class 103 DMU

BR class 120 DMU

 

Not much chance of any of those because they weren't named !!!

 

 

 

Neither were the GWR 2-6-2Ts, GWR 2-8-0Ts and 2-8-2Ts, Black Fives, most of the Terriers, 700 Class, H Class, S15s, J15s, D16s, B1s, K1s, L1s, Q6s, O1s, BR 75XXXs, BR 78XXXs, BR 9Fs, SR EMUS, etc.

 

 

This constant knocking of Hornby for bizarre reasons is extremely boring and childish.

 

 

BTW all those locomotives are already available if you really want them from London Road Models, Brassmasters and Judith Edge. 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

This constant knocking of Hornby for bizarre reasons is extremely boring and childish.

Jason

 

i will consider myself told off then  

[The Stationmaster]

9 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

i will consider myself told off then  

I wonder if any on your wants list will arrive before The Great Bear'?  Although actually 'the Bear' can't be all that far away now as its rapidly approaching being the only British pacific not available r-t-r.  And yes - I suppose there is a sort of Tier 4 with there definitely being one well known retailer who decided not to stock Hornby and  is still very much on business with a nice healthy balance sheet in its most recently submitted accounts.

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I wonder if any on your wants list will arrive before The Great Bear'?  Although actually 'the Bear' can't be all that far away now as its rapidly approaching being the only British pacific not available r-t-r.

 

The Great Bear was a namer too Mike 😀

 

 And yes - I suppose there is a sort of Tier 4 with there definitely being one well known retailer who decided not to stock Hornby and  is still very much on business with a nice healthy balance sheet in its most recently submitted accounts.

Oh yes.  Tier 4 is alive and well !!

From a retailer perspective I can imagine several are ticked off about having to "jostle" for a position in the tiers league table. If there is a finite product quantity available to distribute then each retailer will inevitably be under pressure to provide stock for their customer base. That is until of course Hornby observe that they have massively under subscribed, then produced many more of the limited edition models.    

[maico]

On 24/05/2022 at 17:14, Widnes Model Centre said:

There are no longer any Hornby reps as such. In the North there is a Business Development Manager and eventually when one is recruited there will be the same in the South. 
 

Both of them will only cover Tier 1 shops. 

 

What tier is sold by and dispatched from Amazon?

 

They are a bit and miss but I while back I got a gray W1 with discount from them when official dealers had either sold out or in some cases (Jadlam) asking way more than rrp!

Edited May 25, 2022 by maico

[Yarravalleymodeller]

6 hours ago, Covkid said:

Oh yes.  Tier 4 is alive and well !!

From a retailer perspective I can imagine several are ticked off about having to "jostle" for a position in the tiers league table. If there is a finite product quantity available to distribute then each retailer will inevitably be under pressure to provide stock for their customer base. That is until of course Hornby observe that they have massively under subscribed, then produced many more of the limited edition models.    

Business init. I.e. not charity. 

 

Always has been always will be. Maybe I dunno we could take all this time spent hammering pins into our bedroom walls and connecting strings between cropped black and white images of Hornby management and the great evils of the world and simply do some modelling instead. 

 

Just think what some people could have made or learned to make in the time they've spent on this. As a hobby we've reached a point where the saying "It's your own time you're wasting" is well and truly worth putting in very large letters ahead of any media surrounding Hornby. May as well shout at the sun to go back down when you want an extra hour in bed. 😊 

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

Business init. I.e. not charity. 

 

Always has been always will be. Maybe I dunno we could take all this time spent hammering pins into our bedroom walls and connecting strings between cropped black and white images of Hornby management and the great evils of the world and simply do some modelling instead. 

 

Just think what some people could have made or learned to make in the time they've spent on this. As a hobby we've reached a point where the saying "It's your own time you're wasting" is well and truly worth putting in very large letters ahead of any media surrounding Hornby. May as well shout at the sun to go back down when you want an extra hour in bed. 😊 

 

Totally understand what you say, but you are jumping to some pretty big conclusions when yiu suggest time on here could be better spent modelling instead of daring to critique Hornby management.  I'd wager that there are many thousand railway modellers around the world who have access to RMweb but at the time do not have access to modelling resources. I work with several controllers, and when our 1:1 railway is behaving itself we have time to use on other than following football, motor sports, fashion and holidays. 

 

Last time i checked Andy York kindly provided RMweb for debate and discussion; which is where we are.

[Bilbo]

Am I missing something here ? Hattons for example are Tier 3 so we assume bottom of the pecking order. However all I seem to be getting are emails from them advertising Hornby offers. As a Tier 3 dealer are they being used to dump surplus/excess stock or what ?

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Am I missing something here ?

 

Nothing that hasn't already been explained several times.

[Yarravalleymodeller]

5 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

Totally understand what you say, but you are jumping to some pretty big conclusions when yiu suggest time on here could be better spent modelling instead of daring to critique Hornby management.  I'd wager that there are many thousand railway modellers around the world who have access to RMweb but at the time do not have access to modelling resources. I work with several controllers, and when our 1:1 railway is behaving itself we have time to use on other than following football, motor sports, fashion and holidays. 

 

Last time i checked Andy York kindly provided RMweb for debate and discussion; which is where we are.

Hmm maybe, what value are we gleaning as a hobby from half the stuff posted here though? Other of course than catharsis for persecution complexes over model shops we do not own being treated certain ways or models we cannot afford coming to market. 

 

Availability of modelling resources aside plenty of time wasted that could go on research etc that does not always require the physical trappings of a work bench.

 

Just an outsider looking in on the seemingly never ending drama of the Hornby fandom, if it's reinforced one thing it's that buying ready to run stuff is a sure fire way to have a hobby lacking much enjoyment, creativity and reward. Take care fella... 

[Bilbo]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Nothing that hasn't already been explained several times

Well I am missing it and it doesn't make sense to me . Have to say I guessed I would have got a reply like that and I also guessed who it would come from.

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

Am I missing something here ? Hattons for example are Tier 3 so we assume bottom of the pecking order. However all I seem to be getting are emails from them advertising Hornby offers. As a Tier 3 dealer are they being used to dump surplus/excess stock or what ?

They do seem to have vast quantities of presumably slow moving Hornby stock going cheap ( Hawksworth, Collett, and Stanier coaches for example), what you won't find in quantity are forthcoming items available for pre-order.

Edited May 26, 2022 by spamcan61

[TomScrut]

11 hours ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

Maybe I dunno we could take all this time spent hammering pins into our bedroom walls and connecting strings between cropped black and white images of Hornby management and the great evils of the world and simply do some modelling instead. 

 

 

What if we don't want to do modelling? I take very little pleasure from that, I am here to play with trains not make them. i.e. there is more to the hobby than modelling.

 

I have, however, also spent very little time being interested in the management of any of the manufacturers.

Edited May 26, 2022 by TomScrut

[Yarravalleymodeller]

52 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

What if we don't want to do modelling? I take very little pleasure from that, I am here to play with trains not make them. i.e. there is more to the hobby than modelling.

 

I have, however, also spent very little time being interested in the management of any of the manufacturers.

We all like to play, our play just looks different. 

 

You could say discussing managment is just the latest form of play that vicariously involves models people don't buy but have an opinion on the manufacturing and sale of. 🤣 All getting a bit abstract now isn't it. 

 

Also, think you fail to give yourself credit as you need somewhere to run things which involves some degree of putting something together to make a thing from many parts, layout of track, pop a shed on it etc etc That's modelling, you are a modeller. 

 

The rather more abstract thing mentioned above though is very much not modelling. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Yarravalleymodeller

[Steamport Southport]

20 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

i will consider myself told off then  

 

Don't take it that way.

 

It's that you put it as fact. Most of the locomotives in Hornby's catalogue are unnamed which five minutes of looking at their online catalogue would prove.

 

Can you say the same about Accurascale? To use an example of a manufacturer that get a lot of plaudits on here.

 

Manors. All named

Deltics. All named apart from one or two.

Class 37s. Most named.

Class 31s. Some named.

Class 92s. Most named.

 

Why aren't they getting comments that all they make is big namers? 

 

More importantly why is it only Hornby that ever get criticism for things that most of the other manufacturers are also doing?

 

Just look at Facebook posts about the idea that Hornby only ever make "old steam trains" totally ignoring all the diesels and electrics in the range.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

We all like to play, our play just looks different. 

 

You could say discussing managment is just the latest form of play that vicariously involves models people don't buy but have an opinion on the manufacturing and sale of. 🤣 All getting a bit abstract now isn't it. 

 

Also, think you fail to give yourself credit as you need somewhere to run things which involves some degree of putting something together to make a thing from many parts, layout of track, pop a shed on it etc etc That's modelling, you are a modeller. 

 

The rather more abstract thing mentioned above though is very much not modelling. 

Maybe there is a clue in the title of this thread (which doesn't mention modelling)?

[Yarravalleymodeller]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Maybe there is a clue in the title of this thread (which doesn't mention modelling)?

I'll take that on the cheek, but the sentiment applies more broadly, and indeed to posts within this thread. But back on topic. 

 

God aren't Hornby just awfully mean. 

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

We all like to play, our play just looks different. 

 

You could say discussing managment is just the latest form of play that vicariously involves models people don't buy but have an opinion on the manufacturing and sale of. 🤣 All getting a bit abstract now isn't it. 

 

Also, think you fail to give yourself credit as you need somewhere to run things which involves some degree of putting something together to make a thing from many parts, layout of track, pop a shed on it etc etc That's modelling, you are a modeller. 

 

The rather more abstract thing mentioned above though is very much not modelling. 

But some hobbies are all about looking and commenting. Football comes to mind, where a tiny % of its followers actually kick a ball regularly, still fewer with any great skill, while zillions watch, read, learn, discuss and comment upon this opiate of the people worldwide. Being a Hornby observer is similarly fun for some, boring to others. 

[Yarravalleymodeller]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

But some hobbies are all about looking and commenting. Football comes to mind, where a tiny % of its followers actually kick a ball regularly, still fewer with any great skill, while zillions watch, read, learn, discuss and comment upon this opiate of the people worldwide. Being a Hornby observer is similarly fun for some, boring to others. 

Certainly has its hooligan fraternities as well, I hear the youtube reviewers a calling ;) 

[RedgateModels]

Very odd things happening at work yesterday, as my Boss is on the board at Mansfield Town we had a steady stream of folks phoning up and popping in to buy T shirts, flags and scarves. It's not even going to be cold over the weekend at Wembley 😉

[Roy Langridge]

17 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Don't take it that way.

 

It's that you put it as fact. Most of the locomotives in Hornby's catalogue are unnamed which five minutes of looking at their online catalogue would prove.

 

Can you say the same about Accurascale? To use an example of a manufacturer that get a lot of plaudits on here.

 

Manors. All named

Deltics. All named apart from one or two.

Class 37s. Most named.

Class 31s. Some named.

Class 92s. Most named.

 

Why aren't they getting comments that all they make is big namers? 

 

More importantly why is it only Hornby that ever get criticism for things that most of the other manufacturers are also doing?

 

Just look at Facebook posts about the idea that Hornby only ever make "old steam trains" totally ignoring all the diesels and electrics in the range.

 

 

 

Jason

 

As you talk about facts, let's put your Accurascale comment to the test:

 

Manors. All the prototypes were named for most of their lives.

Deltics. All the prototypes were named apart from a short period.

Class 37s. 10 unnamed, 6 named*. Not "Most" as you claim

Class 31s. Some named. Yep 2 / 14. Class 31s have carried 55 names across a fleet of 263.

Class 92s. All the prototypes were named at some point - today 19 out of 33 in the UK still are.

 

Hornby frequently pick obscure liveries and where a class has carried names, named locos.

 

To have a fair judgement you need to look at the percentage of prototype class that where names / un-named v the model. Other than that it is just pointless.

 

Roy

 

 

* Retailer specials don't count as they are not selected by Accurascale.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Roy Langridge
Typo

[BMS]

Apols if I've missed reporting of  it but the 2023 catalog backcover is out of date; "The catalogue shows items planned for introduction in 2022"  and elsewhere, e.g.;

"Hornby products are available only through authorised retailers"

 

From pedant proof-reader.:)

 

I'm amazed by the number of models for issue in the next year or so; A4+A1/A3+HST variations alone totally exceed the total number of types manufactured by Hornby (Meccano). And that in 4mm alone. The catalogue is 228 pages and about 1cm thick and heavy.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by BMS
to tidy up and add last para

[woodenhead]

Hattons appear to have gone up the Tier system, certainly Tier 2 if not Tier 1, unless there are no more tears.

 

I have had an email from them inviting me to pre-order 2022 and 2023 cataglogue items, until now you could not pre-order Hornby items with Hattons.

 

Now if they could also make friends again with Bachmann....

[Legend]

Hattons and Rails are my local shops given there are no model shops in West Central Scotland anymore that stock anything like a full range of model railways . So I hope Hattons are back in with Hornby .