Correct back to back wheel measurements for early Triang loco wheels ?

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have been working on the 2 remaining Triang 3mt 2-6-2 engines I have on my bench. I am having a slight problem with the back to back wheel measurement. These are the slightly later engines with the see through spoked wheels. Not the solid cast wheels. I think they date back to about 1959/60. All my other versions of this engine including the solid cast wheel and later European French/German ones which seem to have slightly finer flanges work well over my points. But these 2 just bobble and bounce over them. The points I am using are Hornby set track code 100. I find it odd that even the original Triang engine from about 1957 has no problems. I have measured the back to back on all these engines with a micrometer and 13.9 mm to 14.1 mm seems to be the sweet spot except for these 2. If set the wheels are set to modern 00 14.5 mm it just causes all of them to crash and burn on the points. I have also checked the wheels for warping and mazak rot, and they seem fine. I will continue to tinker with the gauges and see what happens. Any ideas where I might be going wrong.

Edited April 15, 2022 by cypherman

[Il Grifone]

The wheels  have a horrible square profile which does not help. My solution is to replace them with the later Hornby version as fitted to the 0-6-0 chassis with the drive to the front axle. Replacing the gears with the higher ratio from the same chassis  reduces the top speed with benefit, but the original brass gears can be used.

The correct setting for the original wheels on code 100 track will be a check gauge of 15mm * (the back to back plus the flange thickness).

* It will depend on the version of the track as clearances have been tightened over the years.

 

I'll have a look at mine which spends her time decorating a shelf due to missing valve gear.

[DCB]

I use a tool set to the Hornby Dublo back to back from their nylon wheels which is 14.2mm sliding fit. The tool is 14.2mm measured by  micrometer on the pass side and 14.5 on the fail,  If its more tan 14.2mm and less than 14.5mm its fine and works on Peco streamline code 100. Streamline, Set Track as well as Triang Super 4 and Series 3.   The GWR used a pass/ fail gauge for flanges so my pass / fail gauge has sound provenance.   Measuring b2b with a micrometer is fiddly.  These Hornby wheels go tight to gauge as the tyres  gradually work inwards. Generally they need washers between wheel backs and chassis sides when eased out to 14,25 or they crab or run offset to the non pickup side.  For best running I put spacers against the worm wheel to limit side play, I use the brass worm wheel, for better slow running use the TT single start worm if you can find one.

I used Hornby Dublo R1 wheels on my 3MT, Hornby Dublo 4MT chassis, ring field magnet, shortened body, then Bachmann brought theirs out at which point my mongrel went into the spare locos drawer whence it remains!

[BR60103]

My CKD Princess from the early 60s has back-to-backs about 13.8 mm.  The blind drivers are 13.55.  I managed to get a measurement of 14.05 once -- couldn't replicate it.

 

Btb is the easiest measurement to make and to set.  Check gauge requires some engineering contortions.

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

As far as I can remember, the spoked, see through, wheels were first used on the B12. 

I think that 1960-1961 is the introduction dates for these wheels...

 

 

[Il Grifone]

5 hours ago, BR60103 said:

My CKD Princess from the early 60s has back-to-backs about 13.8 mm.  The blind drivers are 13.55.  I managed to get a measurement of 14.05 once -- couldn't replicate it.

 

Btb is the easiest measurement to make and to set.  Check gauge requires some engineering contortions.

 

 

Setting check gauge is not really a problem. Subtract the flange thickness from 15mm* and then set the B2B to that. (For example, Dublo flanges are 0.8mm and the B2B 14.2mm.)

* 'Normal BRMSB value', but depends on the pointwork in use.

 

I had forgotten that I actually have two of these things (black and green - both 82004), both static due to the valve gear (or rather lack of it) problem. However they have different wheels; one has shiny tyres the other blackened. Not finding my vernier (not unusual!), I had to use a steel rule to measure - 0.7mm and 13.8mm for one (shiny) and 0.5mm and 14mm for the other. Rather tight, but they were intended for Tri-ang track which has rather generous flangeways. 18 spokes make them seem even smaller than they are especially with the generous coupled wheelbase (why didn't they do a model of the original LMS 2-6-2T which had a longer wheelbase? 🙄). I'll have to do my usual rewheel with the Later Hornby wheels...

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have just put together another chassis for the 3mt from my spares box. Set the b2b to 13.9 for this one, and it works. So I have just bought a body for it from that site for £4.99. Needs a full repaint and decals but it is complete and not damaged.

[5050]

On 16/04/2022 at 07:47, Ruffnut Thorston said:

As far as I can remember, the spoked, see through, wheels were first used on the B12. 

I think that 1960-1961 is the introduction dates for these wheels...

 

 

I remember it being the L1, Railway Modeller was highly impressed.

 

But I could be wrong...........................

[kevinlms]

7 minutes ago, 5050 said:

I remember it being the L1, Railway Modeller was highly impressed.

 

But I could be wrong...........................

What they weren't impressed?

[5050]

59 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

What they weren't impressed?

Oh they were impressed!  I was meaning my memory of it being the L1 could be suspect.  I'm sure it was the L1 'cos, as I was also impressed, I insisted on having one for Christmas that year.

 

Spoilt brat...............................😁

[BR60103]

Tri-ang Railways the first ten years says that Princess Elizabeth and Princess Royal had spokes in 1961.  Nobody else mentioned at the time. 

 

(my copy may be a reprint -- the coloured photographs mentioned do not exist)