BR Dia. 1/191OAA Open Wagon

[Covkid]

Just rereading portions of the excellent Derby Sulzers webpages by David Hills and this image jumped out at me. Not absolutely sure they are OAAs but they look more like an OAA than an OBA to me. Trial bagged coal products in a fun sized train.  Ideal

 

Oh, the caption was this 

Another view from a lightpost, looking south showing 58015 leaving Three Spires on September 20th 1988 with an extra for Bescot. 58015 has already worked the morning round trip to Didcot and would normally have run light to Saltley. However this day there is an extra working conveying household coal and bagged barbecue fuel.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Covkid
additional info

[Covkid]

From the same site a few pages down. Again these look like OAAs to me but might possibly be OBAs.  Another shot from local photographer Ron Kosys

 

25269 at the south end of Hawkesbury Lane yard on a frosty February 27th 1986 working the 6T46 job. 25269 is seen here shunting some engineers wagons in the shadow of the bridge that takes the M6 motorway over the yard and the mainlines. Time was short for 25269, it has about a month left in service, being withdrawn on April 2nd 1986.

 

The link to these pages is  https://www.derbysulzers.com/threespires.html 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Covkid

[03060]

Two great photo finds there, @Covkid , the two wagons behind the 58 are OAAs (ends same height as sides) whereas the ones behind the 25 are as you suspected OBAs with the higher end boards.

 

I like the bagged barbeque coal caption in the first photo as this gives me an idea for a potential load for a recent Rule 1 purchase of an EWS OBA for my West Highland layout. Thanks for posting. 

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, 03060 said:

Two great photo finds there, @Covkid , the two wagons behind the 58 are OAAs (ends same height as sides) whereas the ones behind the 25 are as you suspected OBAs with the higher end boards.

 

I like the bagged barbeque coal caption in the first photo as this gives me an idea for a potential load for a recent Rule 1 purchase of an EWS OBA for my West Highland layout. Thanks for posting. 

 

The end boards are a really useful indicator.   Thanks for that. 

[Fat Controller]

On 18/04/2022 at 08:09, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Going on my somewhat infallible memory, weren't the early yellow spots lettered circuit which then became ABN or what that something different?

 

Mike.

The 'ABN' spots were a lot larger than the 'Circuit' ones, and were confined to Air-Braked Stock. This did include some oddities; in one of the Larkin books, there are photos of  SR PMVs carrying the markings. 

The 'Circuit' markings could be applied to any sort of vehicle, including unfitted ones.

[rapidoandy]

Well a rather hefty OAA wagon has arrived!

 

 

 

[westie7]

2 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Well a rather hefty OAA wagon has arrived!

 

 

 

 

Fabulous..😍

Now I don't need to tell you how useful that chassis will be

 

Mark 

[Steadfast]

Hi @rapidoandy

Having climbed around a real OAA a week or two back, that looks flippin' lovely. Nice touch with the weathered liveries too.

 

All I'll say is N scale please, mesh sides would save me a lot of work hacking Farish plastic...

Pic linked from Flickr.

These just looked so ridiculous hanging off the back of a long train of 100t bogie wagons.

 

Jo

[brushman47544]

A question has come up on the Bachmann VEA thread about the colour of BR's early air brakes wagons, in particular whether they were BR brown/bauxite or a more maroon colour. Has Rapido investigated this issue and established that the first OAAs were indeed bauxite not maroon? Since posting a link to a Paul Bartlett photo on that thread, I've now found this https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/O/OAA-dropside-open-wagons/i-VCTDTND/A which definitely looks more marron than brown/bauxite.

[cctransuk]

7 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

A question has come up on the Bachmann VEA thread about the colour of BR's early air brakes wagons, in particular whether they were BR brown/bauxite or a more maroon colour. Has Rapido investigated this issue and established that the first OAAs were indeed bauxite not maroon? Since posting a link to a Paul Bartlett photo on that thread, I've now found this https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/O/OAA-dropside-open-wagons/i-VCTDTND/A which definitely looks more marron than brown/bauxite.

 

I am quite clear in my mind that, at that time, I was modelling the then-current scene and my air-braked opens were painted Freight Stock Maroon - I was, if anything, even more fastidious about livery details then than I am now!

 

In fact, there is every chance that the tin of Precision paint in question is still in my paint tin drawer.

 

CJI.

[BernardTPM]

20 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

A question has come up on the Bachmann VEA thread about the colour of BR's early air brakes wagons, in particular whether they were BR brown/bauxite or a more maroon colour. Has Rapido investigated this issue and established that the first OAAs were indeed bauxite not maroon? Since posting a link to a Paul Bartlett photo on that thread, I've now found this https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/O/OAA-dropside-open-wagons/i-VCTDTND/A which definitely looks more marron than brown/bauxite.

Those look like they may be a rough repaint into EWS 'red'. Certainly it's far from their original colour. The photo was taken in 2006.

[brushman47544]

30 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Those look like they may be a rough repaint into EWS 'red'. Certainly it's far from their original colour. The photo was taken in 2006.

 

43 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I am quite clear in my mind that, at that time, I was modelling the then-current scene and my air-braked opens were painted Freight Stock Maroon - I was, if anything, even more fastidious about livery details then than I am now!

 

In fact, there is every chance that the tin of Precision paint in question is still in my paint tin drawer.

 

CJI.

 

Apologies for not spotting the 2006 date. This is the Paul Bartlett photo which is from the right period and hints at a more maroon colour http:// https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/broaa/e3fba9ec5. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the OAAs should be maroon.

[BernardTPM]

Your link seems to be wrong, going back to the start of the thread, but this 1978 picture has the right code to the one you indicated: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/broaa/h350C0551#h3fba9ec5

By contrast, this one from 1980 is more orange brown: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/broaa/h350C0551#h32dc0aa6

So perhaps there was more than one colour used or these two weathered to very different shades.

 

There was a short-lived Railfreight maroon livery, though that had the boxed double arrow/Railfreight symbols as used on the red/grey scheme. Not that many wagons got it, mainly some new builds (e.g. OBA)  and air-brake rebuilds (e.g. BDA).

Edited May 30, 2022 by BernardTPM

[hmrspaul]

7 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

A question has come up on the Bachmann VEA thread about the colour of BR's early air brakes wagons, in particular whether they were BR brown/bauxite or a more maroon colour. Has Rapido investigated this issue and established that the first OAAs were indeed bauxite not maroon? Since posting a link to a Paul Bartlett photo on that thread,

I do wish people wouldn't keep quoting me. 

 

But VEAs are 1978 - when Maroon was being used for a whole range of wagons, not least other AB vans https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brvaa/ec3c98422  But OAA are 1971 and may have been repainted by 1978. 

 

But, more to the point, now are you expecting Rapido to have "investigated" this. It is 50 years ago, fast becoming beyond human memory. What documentation do you expect to resolve this? Where is it - I'd love to know as I expect Rapido (replace with any manufacturer's name) would also like to. I haven't inspected the lot files if they exist at the HMRS study Centre, but the earlier lot files make no reference to colour finish. Please can we have some understanding this is not yesterday, these are just as historical as trying to finish an LMS van in the right colour (and look how Essery admitted being confused about their colour schemes when he wrote Essery, R, J, (1981) An illustrated history of LMS Wagons, Volume 1, Oxford Publishing Co. SBN 86093 127 7. viii + 180 pages - once again only 40 - 60 years earlier. 

 

Paul

Edited May 30, 2022 by hmrspaul

[BernardTPM]

It is sobering to think that back in the 1960s those LMS wagons were from only 30 to 40 years before.

[hmrspaul]

5 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

It is sobering to think that back in the 1960s those LMS wagons were from only 30 to 40 years before.

More sobering is that when I started looking in detail at wagons in 1965 there was a 1931 LMS open in Staines yard and I was really surprised and excited to see such an old wagon! On Saturday I took photos of ex Salmons - admittedly air braked and with newish bogies and now known by Network Rail as Osprey - motoring through York with a 60mph speed limit on them, and only 67 years old. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/salmonrebogied  

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

9 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

More sobering is that when I started looking in detail at wagons in 1965 there was a 1931 LMS open in Staines yard and I was really surprised and excited to see such an old wagon! On Saturday I took photos of ex Salmons - admittedly air braked and with newish bogies and now known by Network Rail as Osprey - motoring through York with a 60mph speed limit on them, and only 67 years old. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/salmonrebogied  

 

Paul

Likewise, BDAs; though I do wonder about the wisdom of further repurposing some of these as spoil carriers. Not exactly  light work for their twilight years.

[brushman47544]

17 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

I do wish people wouldn't keep quoting me. 

 

But VEAs are 1978 - when Maroon was being used for a whole range of wagons, not least other AB vans https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brvaa/ec3c98422  But OAA are 1971 and may have been repainted by 1978. 

 

But, more to the point, now are you expecting Rapido to have "investigated" this. It is 50 years ago, fast becoming beyond human memory. What documentation do you expect to resolve this? Where is it - I'd love to know as I expect Rapido (replace with any manufacturer's name) would also like to. I haven't inspected the lot files if they exist at the HMRS study Centre, but the earlier lot files make no reference to colour finish. Please can we have some understanding this is not yesterday, these are just as historical as trying to finish an LMS van in the right colour (and look how Essery admitted being confused about their colour schemes when he wrote Essery, R, J, (1981) An illustrated history of LMS Wagons, Volume 1, Oxford Publishing Co. SBN 86093 127 7. viii + 180 pages - once again only 40 - 60 years earlier. 

 

Paul

 

Sorry, but I haven't "quoted" you, I've simply used one of your always useful photos to raise a question.

 

Also, I deliberately chose language to avoid accusing Rapido of getting the colour wrong. As you say its a long time ago and I was simply asking an open question whether Rapido, in their research of liveries, had found any evidence as to whether a more maroon colour had been applied to the OAAs. I have no idea what evidence may be available, but it has surprised me on several occasions that previously unknown photographic evidence has emerged once a specific question has been asked. All it takes is an answer "we found no evidence and based the colour on what we did find out" and subject closed.

[Steadfast]

Here's one for fans of rare breeds. 100048 is as far as we can tell, the last OAA in use.

100048 Westbury 19/5/22

 

There seems to be two styles of mesh sides, one with steps in the right hand door and a handrail added to the end post and another with no steps.

Looking at Flickr, this wagon was converted with three plain mesh doors, then had the steps added at a later date.

 

If the mesh sided ones get produced @rapidoandy, it may be worth making the Mendip Pool and EWS boards either easily removed or added by the customer.

Some wagons lost the boards in Mendip use and others have lost the boards when going back into infrastructure use after their Merehead traffic ended. 

 

Jo

Edited October 5, 2022 by Steadfast

[woodenhead]

 

[eastwestdivide]

Bit more prototype inspiration. I've posted at least one of these before, but useful to have them in a dedicated OAA thread.

 

100005 in red/grey livery in October 1983 at Strood (sorry about the quality):

 

100054 with reversed BR arrows in brown with the remains of an ABN (?) yellow circle, also 100040 in brown to the right, Rochester 1985:

 

100048 in Redland livery (or perhaps edland!), Strood, 1985:

[eastwestdivide]

Just noticed that with the red/grey livery, some examples have the top three planks red and others only the top two.

[Mophead45143]

Was it common to find these in partially fitted mixed freights in the 1970's, bearing in mind that defeated the object of them being air braked!

 

Regards,

 

Cameron

[AY Mod]

Rapido are showing latest samples of the OAA at Warley show this weekend:

 

 

 

 

[WCML100]

@rapidoandy Are there any plans for a EWS mesh sided version of the OAA in the future? I think these would sell well personally :)