00 gauge modellers badly served with track gauges

[hayfield]

One of my pet peeves is how badly 00 gauge modellers are served by both the trade and societies with both gauges and guidance on building

 

In fact I would go as far as saying most 00 gauge modellers  fail to be offered even the most basic track building items

 

 

This was my first track gauge supplied in a SMP kit in the 70's. Its 16.5 mm wide and is 1.25mm thick. So its a very crude track gauge and the only wing rail gauge I have ever come across in 00 gauge

 

 

These are a pair of C&L 00 gauge roller gauges, but why do they have both a check and wing rail gauge included in a roller gauge ?

 

But more importantly these were sold by the 2 previous owners (the new owner sells the correct 00 gauge with a 1.25mm gap) of C&L with 1mm check/flangeway gap and sold as an 00 gauge roller gauge. This gauge is to GOGA fine standards which requires the back to back of wheelsets to be widened, admittedly it matched the common crossings in their turnout kits (C&L now and for sometime use the correct common crossings with a 1.25 mm gap), if you know what you are doing you could make adjustments to allow trouble free use. But it simply illustrates the troubles the novice track builder faces

 

Lets look at what the new EM or P4 track builder can expect with a basic range of gauges

 

  

 

Top left and middle are 3 point gauges, which are required in EM & P4 gauges (not 00 gauge) for use on (tight) curves to gauge widen. Right is a wing rail gauge, bottom left roller gauges bottom middle a wing rail gauge

With the exception of the 3 point gauges which are not required in 00 gauge, the other 3 gauges do help/make life easier in 00 gauge 

 

 

The Peco track gauge is supurb and you can see I have removed all but 2 of the wing/check rail gauges, the big lump of metal is a block gauge, the 2 brass gauges have flats milled from them, the left hand one for fitting over the common crossing, the right hand to miss, wing, check and switch rails, the left hand roller gauge has a flat filed on it to be used over the common crossing. All of these things can be done for 00 gauge gauges

 

 

For EM & P4 gauges there is a block gauge with a a wing rail alignment guide, why is there not one for 00 gauge?

 

 

Here you see that in 00 gauge I have roller gauges with out check & wing rail slots, a block gauge, check rail gauges and a wing rail gauge, along with the very useful Peco track gauge, these are the reasons people struggle building 00 gauge turnouts and crossings. The eagle eyed will have noticed the check rail gauges are those sold for 00SF, but its exactly the same for 00 universal/BRMSB as 00SF, I keep telling Phil to promote them as setting the check rail against the common crossing is more important than the standard 16.5 which can be + or - a couple of thou.

 

Track building is easy, providing you have the correct tools. I am not saying that you need a bag full of tools to build track successfully, many have proved this wrong. But just a few extra ones would certainly make life easier and might well make all the difference

 

C&L are reviewing their instructions, but nothing beats a well thought out set of detailed instructions, with plenty of descriptive photos

 

Rant over !!!

Edited April 22, 2022 by hayfield

[Ravenser]

1. Track gauges are available from DOGA

 

Listing here :  DOGA gauges and templates

 

2.   C+L gauges and components

 

Quote

These are a pair of C&L 00 gauge roller gauges, but why do they have both a check and wing rail gauge included in a roller gauge ?

 

But more importantly these were sold by the 2 previous owners (the new owner sells the correct 00 gauge with a 1.25mm gap) of C&L with 1mm check/flangeway gap and sold as an 00 gauge roller gauge. This gauge is to DOGA fine standards which requires the back to back of wheelsets to be widened, admittedly it matched the common crossings in their turnout kits (C&L now and for sometime use the correct common crossings with a 1.25 mm gap), if you know what you are doing you could make adjustments to allow trouble free use. But it simply illustrates the troubles the novice track builder faces

 

 

 

The C+L roller gauges at 1.0mm flangeway  date back to the 1990s and predate DOGA. As you note, for many years , from perhaps as early as the late 1980s, C+L sold common crossings with 1.0mm flangeway. No doubt the same stock was sold to both EM and OO modellers.

 

They also for many years sold OO back to back gauges to 14.8mm , and later `14.7mm . Those also predated DOGA

 

The intention was that they were to be used as a package with Gibson/Ultrascale wheels . In the 1980s and 1990s anyone working in "scale" OO expected to rewheel everything , so there was no question of "widening" the back to back - you simply bought Gibson/Ultrascale wheels to use for rewheeling , instead of Romfords.

 

This "package" was quite strongly promoted in the 1990s as the future of finescale OO.  DOGA simply codefied it in about 2001 so everyone could see what the numbers are . You could almost call the DOGA Finescale track standard "the C+L package"

 

The adoption of  nominally RP25/110 by the RTR manufacturers in the years around 2000 moved the goalposts - the need to rewheel stock disappeared, as it became abundantly clear that the new RTR would run very happily on BRMSB OO track - which turned out to be the great majority of handbuilt OO track.

 

It is positive that C+L have now recognised the way things have gone , and switched to de facto offering OO Intermediate products

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

1. Track gauges are available from DOGA

 

Listing here :  DOGA gauges and templates

 

2.   C+L gauges and components

 

 

 

The C+L roller gauges at 1.0mm flangeway  date back to the 1990s and predate DOGA. As you note, for many years , from perhaps as early as the late 1980s, C+L sold common crossings with 1.0mm flangeway. No doubt the same stock was sold to both EM and OO modellers.

 

They also for many years sold OO back to back gauges to 14.8mm , and later `14.7mm . Those also predated DOGA

 

The intention was that they were to be used as a package with Gibson/Ultrascale wheels . In the 1980s and 1990s anyone working in "scale" OO expected to rewheel everything , so there was no question of "widening" the back to back - you simply bought Gibson/Ultrascale wheels to use for rewheeling , instead of Romfords.

 

This "package" was quite strongly promoted in the 1990s as the future of finescale OO.  DOGA simply codefied it in about 2001 so everyone could see what the numbers are . You could almost call the DOGA Finescale track standard "the C+L package"

 

The adoption of  nominally RP25/110 by the RTR manufacturers in the years around 2000 moved the goalposts - the need to rewheel stock disappeared, as it became abundantly clear that the new RTR would run very happily on BRMSB OO track - which turned out to be the great majority of handbuilt OO track.

 

It is positive that C+L have now recognised the way things have gone , and switched to de facto offering OO Intermediate products

 

 

Ravenser

 

Thank you for your post, but sadly it amplifies exactly what I have written at how badly (in my opinion) 00 gauge modellers are served when it comes to gauges

 

Firstly in the main track building is the same which ever gauge or scale you use and again in my opinion the same products should be available to all. Perhaps the exception is the 3 point gauge, in 00 BF/ DOGAI/BRMSB (universal) scale  gauge widening is inbuilt and I see the DOGA 3 point does not gauge widen, but when track building is still very useful.

 

The way I have been taught and it seems to be the norm in all scales is that the most important dimension in track building is the check rail, in most gauges this is set by using a check rail gauge, I had both examples from (early) Exactoscale and 00SF.  C&L now sell these check rail gauges in 00 gauge

 

I have also found the easiest method of accurately fitting wing rails is to use a wing rail gauge, most of mine were obtained from old SMP kits. When building obtuse crossings they are a must!!!

 

As for roller gauges, most (again in my opinion) are not fit for purpose without modification. Having both wing and check rail groves are both not required and get in the way. C&L now sell theirs with a flat on one side milled off so they can fit over common crossings, I also file flats on the inside so these gauges can be used over switch, check and wing rails.

 

C&L changed their common crossings to be fully compatible with the standards that require 1.25 mm flangeways (BRMSB), but also with the roller gauges so that the rail heads can rotate within the gauge and a flat on one outside so it can be used against common crossings. At the same time common crossings with a 1.25mm flangeways were added to the range

 

I would like to indorse Peco's track gauge IL 116, I have 4 two of which are taped together making an A frame, it sometimes serves as a third hand, the nibs can be cut off if you don't want wing and check rails, also by cutting off one of the outer nibs you have a check rail gauge. 

 

Finally the D D Wheelwrights block gauge and wing rail alignment aid is a super aid for sitting wing rails and also setting the stock rails against the wing rails, its a great pity these are not available in 00 gauge

 

As for why C&L marketed 00 roller gauges with 1 mm flangeways, I believe was simply to reduce the number of common crossing variants, I accept perhaps they also worked with the likes of Gibson finescale wheels, who knows !!. I first had a chat with Peter about these gauges, but owing to the number he inherited and the businesses finances his hands were tied. When Phil (current owner) was made aware when finances were available new common crossings and gauges were ordered. He has 00 check rail gauges now in stock and is chatting about wing rail gauges from his gauge making supplier

 

Thanks again for your input and promotion of 00 track gauges

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Ravenser

 

Thank you for your post, but sadly it amplifies exactly what I have written at how badly (in my opinion) 00 gauge modellers are served when it comes to gauges

 

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the answer is to get them made for yourself.

If you think others would want them, get more made & sell them.

Scale-based associations were formed to support each other, but they will only produce products which members want for themselves then share with others.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the answer is to get them made for yourself.

If you think others would want them, get more made & sell them.

Scale-based associations were formed to support each other, but they will only produce products which members want for themselves then share with others.

 

 

Pete

 

Fair comment, for my own use I have done this, I had an ali strip milled to 1.25 so I have plenty if material especially as I have several SMP gauges

 

Secondly a kind member on here milled me a block gauge, perhaps I should have asked him to mill a strip a couple of foot long. I have several small boxes full of gauges. In 00 I have code 100, code 75, and code 75 and 82 in 00SF. I may even have 00/H0 universal (coarse scale)

 

Thankfully Phil at C&L has taken the bull by the horns as far as the gauges are concerned but at the moment he has higher priorities on his plate

 

As far as EM & P4 gauges they are well served, its the biggest market (00 gauge) that lags behind