EFE Spring announcement 2022 - 27th April at 9:30

[BR Blue]

Bachmann appear to be doing a separate EFE announcement.

 

 

 

I was expecting the Bachmann Spring announcements next month and presumably that will still happen. Interesting to see they have a separate EFE one.

[bmthtrains - David]

Is it EFE Rail or EFE - as in a bus?

 

David

[BR Blue]

It is EFE only with no extra information, so maybe it is just the bus part. I would have expected the rail items to be part of the Bachmann main announcement next month. Quoting directly it says "EFE Spring Announcement".

[wombatofludham]

Perhaps they are about to announce a new retool of the Leyland National...

That said, there has been some progress on the Northern Counties Palatine, the London thing* and the Seadog Atlanteans, so perhaps they will be formally launching them with due dates.

Perhaps, in a fit of irony, they will be announcing the intention to do a range of 1980s Ford Transit mini-buses which effectively killed off the Leyland National in NBC fleets!

* My eyes glaze over when London buses are announced...

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

My eyes glaze over when London buses are announced...

 

Me too, they're like GWR steam engines aren't they, all the same?

 

Mike.

[Paul.Uni]

A new section has appeared on the Bachmann website https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/die-cast-and-readymade/efe-road

 

I'm guessing that EFE Road will be like EFE Rail, in that Bachmann will commission other manufacturers to produce models under the EFE Road brand.

[John M Upton]

I wonder if they are going to relaunch the old EFE diecast buses again.  Not sure it would be worth it though as they look dated now and can be found easily for less than the cost of the postage.

 

Mind you, I believe someone has announced a new Leyland National so I would not be surprised to see the old EFE pastiche wheeled out again, especially as it is the 50th Anniversary of the type. 

[wombatofludham]

Mmm, re-run of the venerable EFE National two door in new boxes but at modern Bachmann prices.

I'm not one to complain about prices but how can the RRP of the new models be £41.95 for an old casting (doesn't even have mirrors) when Rapido's Fleetline was £49.95 with interior lighting and superior detailing?  I know we don't have prices yet for the Rapido National but if they can get close to the Fleetline price with features like lighting then it will leave the EFE Road option behind.  Yes, Rapido model in plastic and that will be less appealing to some, but for those of us who want a model for the bus on a bridge I suspect the price for what is an old casting (one of EFE's earliest jobs) with a lot of printed "detail" will compare unfavourably with the probable pricing of Rapido.

[John M Upton]

I was right, they have dug out the old and quite frankly naff EFE National tooling!!  Forty two sheets for a thirty year old diecast tooling when you can pick up the old ones for a fiver?

 

No thanks...

[Legend]

ahh I thought it was new tooling . So its the old one in 1972 liveries . Fancied the Nothern one with Sacriston destination but will wait to see if it finds its price level , which is not £41.95

[John M Upton]

Price level for the old tooling ones is about a fiver (and in the case of ebay sales that usually includes the postage!!) The Rapido all bells and whistles version at virtually the same price makes far more sense.

[Mike Harvey]

In the video there are very prominent paint runs on the nearside cove panels. Strange that they all have the issue. Either a casting issue or image manipulation. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

I might have been tempted by the Northern Leyland National, but for the price (exorbitant, IMHO) and that the destination is probably incorrect — Northern route 55 was Newcastle-Middlesbrough, and almost invariably Routemaster-worked; it never received a 7xx number as, for instance, the Hartlepool, Darlington and Crook services did because it was withdrawn and replaced by extending service X1 (Newcastle – Durham) to Middlesbrough.

[AMJ]

As ever with that National casting there are obvious gaps where the different parts go together.  Not as bad as when EFE did the flat roofed one with an insert where the pod goes.

 

When I used to sell them a number of collectors would buy fleets that were meaningful to them.  Many would buy the first casting as this was often sought after.

 

The DMS looks to have a few tweaks compared to the earlier ones released in the Frank Joyce days.

 

As new models from all manufacturers are quite expensive compared to the vast selection of older models I am not surprised that there are far fewer new releases compared to a few years ago.

[Butler Henderson]

Is it not just the case they have liveried up the old model as the new one does not exist. Kernow and others are referring to a new tooling.

[brushman47544]

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Is it not just the case they have liveried up the old model as the new one does not exist. Kernow and others are referring to a new tooling.

Looks like the old tooling to me. They’re all 11.3m versions and I have to say I think the windows look better on the single door and 10.3m models, which I think came later from the Frank Joyce EFE. Still has the refractor(?) in the rear window to aid reversing which was not widely seen in fleets and frankly a rear window option without should be offered these days, depending on the prototype. It’s only a small bit of clear plastic…

 

The prices are what they are. Fortunately I have a good fleet already.

[stovepipe]

5 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Is it not just the case they have liveried up the old model as the new one does not exist. Kernow and others are referring to a new tooling.

 

No mention of new tooling from Rails, and frankly if it is new tooling, poorly painted old toolings really aren't going to sell them at that price.

 

Somewhat depressingly, it seems Bachmann are now following Hornby's strategy of trying to spike their competitors guns - with decades old tooling. 

[phil-b259]

56 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

 

No mention of new tooling from Rails, and frankly if it is new tooling, poorly painted old toolings really aren't going to sell them at that price.

 

Somewhat depressingly, it seems Bachmann are now following Hornby's strategy of trying to spike their competitors guns - with decades old tooling. 

 

Please remember that Bachmann make their announcements timed to be when the actual products are leaving the factory and on their way here!

 

As such production of these busses could easily have been underway at the exact moment Rapido made their announcement they were going to make a Leyland National.

 

Given UK competition law strictly forbids manufacturers sharing future production plans behind closed doors  what exactly would expect Bachmann to do when confronted with a rival producing the same thing?

 

Scrap a whole bunch of in production models they have already paid the factory to produce and incur a substantial loss or alternatively bring them to market anyway to recoup that cost.

 

This whole situation is very different from what Hornby do where their announcements are many months / years in advance of the products being made and where there is every chance the production slots could be reallocated to something else.

[Mike Harvey]

7 hours ago, stovepipe said:

 

No mention of new tooling from Rails, and frankly if it is new tooling, poorly painted old toolings really aren't going to sell them at that price.

 

Somewhat depressingly, it seems Bachmann are now following Hornby's strategy of trying to spike their competitors guns - with decades old tooling. 

 

In this case, the new liveries have been under development for sometime, so no correspondence at all with the Hornby practice.  One of the model paint manufacturers has confirmed on Facebook their involvement in the liveries.

[stovepipe]

It's odd that both manufacturers have missed the actual 50th anniversary already, and then announce within 5 days of each other a month or so later on.

 

The EFE's ones are slated to be here in July/August 2022, so no, I don't think are ready to leave the factory by any means.

 

Certainly 3-4 months would seem to be just enough time to commit to making a non-complex die-cast model from the existing tooling, and get them shipped here, but no doubt some expert like phil will tell me different.

 

So, just an unhappy coincidence then? Perhaps let us see when the respective buses actually show up.

 

It interesting to note that EFE are also doing a new tool LT Daimler Fleetline - hot on the heels of the Rapido WMPTE versions selling out.

[younGGuns7]

10 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

It's odd that both manufacturers have missed the actual 50th anniversary already, and then announce within 5 days of each other a month or so later on.

 

The EFE's ones are slated to be here in July/August 2022, so no, I don't think are ready to leave the factory by any means.

 

Certainly 3-4 months would seem to be just enough time to commit to making a non-complex die-cast model from the existing tooling, and get them shipped here, but no doubt some expert like phil will tell me different.

 

So, just an unhappy coincidence then? Perhaps let us see when the respective buses actually show up.

 

It interesting to note that EFE are also doing a new tool LT Daimler Fleetline - hot on the heels of the Rapido WMPTE versions selling out.

Not sure current production issues, COVID restrictions and shipping issues that any model even with existing tooling could be announced and land in the UK in a 3 to 4 month window, I would suspect at least a 6 month window would be required if you were extremely lucky. My products were due to ship in March, currently I am still awaiting a production completion date due to a complete shut down in Shanghai 

[stovepipe]

26 minutes ago, younGGuns7 said:

Not sure current production issues, COVID restrictions and shipping issues that any model even with existing tooling could be announced and land in the UK in a 3 to 4 month window, I would suspect at least a 6 month window would be required if you were extremely lucky. My products were due to ship in March, currently I am still awaiting a production completion date due to a complete shut down in Shanghai 

 

Fair enough, but presumably that's a different industry or market? I'm factoring in that Bachmann have their own factory, space booked, and that die-cast models don't need much assembly compared to a super-detailed loco or similar.

[younGGuns7]

9 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

 

Fair enough, but presumably that's a different industry or market? I'm factoring in that Bachmann have their own factory, space booked, and that die-cast models don't need much assembly compared to a super-detailed loco or similar.

Maybe, but it is still tight. Shipping out of China needs at least 2 months from finished production to arrival in the UK at best so that would be some planning to get through in that timescale

[andyman7]

The sheer number and variety of variants and liveries that adorned the Leyland National means that EFE and Rapido could produce dozens of versions without replication. The Rapido version looks very exciting but I still find it depressing that the armchair opinion of pricing still seems to consist of 'oh it cost x a few years ago, so this price is too high'.

 

Anyone who can remember back beyond the 00 scale China-made bus boom will recall that in the 80s and before, if you wanted a scale bus, it meant wrestling with a Pirate Models or similar kit. Getting one professionally made would set you back a lot of money.

 

We have all enjoyed the fruits of the China boom but recent events suggest this period may now seriously be coming to a close; whether goods are made there or elsewhere, prices are starting to revert to their long run 'true' cost. 

 

Another fallacy is around the cost of manufacture vs tooling. Tools are still expensive but in the CAD/CAM age are cheaper in real terms than thirty years ago. However, the assembly - multiple tampo printing; intricate assembly; complex liveries - costs money, as does the shipping.  However, you will still be paying less in 2022 prices than it would have cost to have had that model (hand) made for you to a similar standards in the 1970s!

 

 

 

 

[wombatofludham]

I don't think the EFE announcement is retaliatory, I suspect they have been planning it for a while and it's co-incidence, or even Rapido "getting wind " of the announcement and getting in first.  Whatever, it's not "Titgate" take 2.

However, criticism of the price does stand.  The images clearly show the old EFE model.  Now, of course raw material and labour costs have increased so comparisons with old stock sitting in the warehouse and second hand models aren't really fair, but if you compare the models launched by EFE with Northcord's Enviro500 double deck model, which is available retail at between £55 and £60, they are not even in the same league.  Flush glazing, fantastic paint jobs and printing and added details like mirrors and tree branch fenders make the sixty sheets of the Northcord model worth the money, whilst the photos of the EFE National show panel gaps where the tooling variations fit, chunky glazing and not much applied detailing, yet are only £20 or so less than the Northcord model which, it has to be said, must be more complex to assemble and certainly more complex to paint and print given modern liveries.

As I said, I normally don't complain about prices but this announcement when compared to other superior models out there currently being made doesn't seem right.